Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!cbfsb!att-out!pacbell.com!well!well.sf.ca.us!tchilds From: tchilds@well.sf.ca.us (Timothy Childs) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #2 (Friday 18 Sep) Message-ID: Date: 19 Sep 92 00:43:58 GMT References: Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link Lines: 3 Thank you for posting the entire list. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!baldwin From: baldwin@carina.unm.edu (Chris Baldwin) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update Message-ID: <5k4nzxn@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 12:32:50 GMT Organization: Atheist for the Development of a Better God References: Lines: 15 In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >And the nominees to date: > >Geoff Miller Now, wait one minute here! Which Geoff Miller are we talking about here? Do you mean Mr. Alt.tasteless 1991 and the Mayor of Peevetown? Or is this the Australian GunNut(tm)? The people have a right to know before they have to decide. So, just to clear up all confusion, I will nominate BOTH of them. -- "Hey, Guido! It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Getit? And he knows it! That's why he's gonna kill us. So we gotta beat it. Yeah, before he lets loose the marmosets on us! - Ren Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66176@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 06:40:53 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <15184@mindlink.bc.ca> <66005@cup.portal.com> <66117@cup.portal.com> Lines: 18 Dear Hu-mans and Hu-women: Well here it is saturday morning and all is well. The one who takes the cake in this 9th week OOBE train is Bridgette of Grass Valley. She wound up in going into astral projection and a bunch of chinamen wound up at the foot of her bed. It might have been the ghost of about 22 chinese people who lost their lives when a gold mining hole fell in an killed them on the North Fork of the American River near Gold Run near Auburn, Calif. but then that is another story. Maybe I can get my friend Art Martin to take his Angel Band over and rescue those souls one of these days. In regards to our big ESP experiment with Big Al, he wound up going to sleep but not to worry I did pick up a lot of information about him and will check with him to see if it was correct. If it wasn't correct then I probubly won't tell anyone about it because that will make me to appear less than perfect and we wouldn't want that, would we. Anyway please don't take things to seiously. 5,000 years from now some group will be looking at the remains of our civilization and be discussing whether or not we even existed (Atlantis). John Winston Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!LMJ4805 From: lmj4805@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: <1992Sep18.132405.1187@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxb.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: lmj4805@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <92260.154350SML108@psuvm.psu.edu>, Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 13:24:05 GMT Lines: 41 In article , pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) writes: >In article <92260.154350SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: >>In article , jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) says: >>> >>>In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >>>>>In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >>>> >>>>I suppose this means you won't vote for Gorby: fair enough, there's >>>>room for opposing points of view here. As you didn't make another >>>>nomination, I'll add: >>>> >>>>Walter Cronkite. >>>> >>> >>>how about someone that is not a CIA spokesperson, and would like to >>>expose the secret government(s) for what it is? >>> >>>Bill Moyers. >> >> How about someone who wasn't a master of propaganda for Lyndon Johnson >>and can talk about what's really important... >> >>Xaviera Hollander >> > >How about someone who understands the art of propaganda >and can talk about what's really important > >The Little Fleshy One (Cicciolita sp?) > >-- >-- Pat Monardo >-- pjm@cshl.org how about someone who just doesnt care? someone who makes you think they are going to discuss important things, but instead sits in a chair and reads you _green eggs and ham_ by dr. seuss and at the end of each page turns the book around to show you the pictures? thats what i want to see. someone who does something nice, like a read a children's book, instead of giving me their know-it-all attitude on world affairs. lee Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!strath-cs!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Sep19.172312.369@dct.ac.uk> Date: 19 Sep 92 16:23:12 GMT References: <15184@mindlink.bc.ca> <66005@cup.portal.com><66117@cup.portal.com> <66176@cup.portal.com> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 16 In article <66176@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > perfect and we wouldn't want that, would we. Anyway please don't take things > to seiously. 5,000 years from now some group will be > looking at the remains of our civilization and be discussing whether > or not we even existed (Atlantis). > John Winston The geostationary satellites should be a bit of a give away together with the odd footprint and assorted junk on the moon. Did the Atlanteans never launch anything into space then? -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update Message-ID: <3s4nl_+.rickg@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 16:56:28 GMT Organization: Netcom - Voice of the Voiceless References: <5k4nzxn@lynx.unm.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 14 In article <5k4nzxn@lynx.unm.edu> Chris Baldwin writes: > Now, wait one minute here! Which Geoff Miller are we talking >about here? Do you mean Mr. Alt.tasteless 1991 and the Mayor of Peevetown? >Or is this the Australian GunNut(tm)? The people have a right to know >before they have to decide. > > So, just to clear up all confusion, I will nominate BOTH of them. Done. -- Rick Gordon | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly rickg@netcom.com | and I did. I said I didn't know." M. Twain Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31221 alt.alien.visitors:9496 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again Message-ID: <6s4n7d+.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 16:59:07 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 26 Many of you no doubt recall the excitement last June concerning a supposed video of a UFO shown on "Hard Copy", taken from a NASA camera on the Space Shutle (STS-48). Certain UFOlogists of little critical acumen insist that it is a UFO being chased by some "secret weapon," even though NASA says, quite correctly, that the objects are just tiny pieces of ice being pushed away by an attitude control thruster firing. Well, I understand that the "Sightings" program on FOX-TV has scheduled a six-minute segment on that "NASA UFO" on its show to be broadcast Sept. 25. James Oberg and Don Ecker will appear to debate the matter. It seems that "you just can't keep a good UFO down," no matter how BAD it may happen to be!! -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Where can you get a good regressionist these days? Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 17:20:21 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <18qrs8INNah3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Lines: 18 In article <18qrs8INNah3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com writes: > >Does anyone know how one might go about trying to track down a good hypnotic >regressionist in one's area? I have a friend that recently experienced a >classic case of missing time, and we'd like to investigate it. You could try a dowsing rod. I've heard that works well. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: Sender: news@phage.cshl.org Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs References: <92260.154350SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Sep18.132405.1187@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 18:39:51 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1992Sep18.132405.1187@ultb.isc.rit.edu> lmj4805@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: > how about someone who just doesnt care? someone who makes you think >they are going to discuss important things, but instead sits in a chair and >reads you _green eggs and ham_ by dr. seuss and at the end of each page turns >the book around to show you the pictures? thats what i want to see. someone who >does something nice, like a read a children's book, instead of giving me their >know-it-all attitude on world affairs. > lee you mean someone like Captain Kangaroo -- -- Pat Monardo -- pjm@cshl.org Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!palmj From: palmj@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Jyri L. Palm) Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in ads Message-ID: <5c-z2c-@rpi.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu References: Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 19:49:30 GMT Lines: 25 krowell@agora.rain.com (Keith Rowell) writes: >I'm trying to catalog the use of UFO/alien themes in >advertisements, especially in nationally distributed ads >in the print or electronic media. Here's what I have so far. >If you have any information on others, please email me or reply >to the net. Thanks a lot. >I'll periodically send out what I have so we can see how this >current infatuation with UFO/alien themes develops through the 1990s. >Keith Rowell The October, 1992 issue of "Food & Wine" page 54 has a UFO-theme ad. It is a full page ad and the fine print identifies it as "National Federation of Coffee Growers of Columbia." The top 9" is a black and white fuzzy photo of a UFO hovering over some trees and houses. The bottom 2" simply has the phrase "We know why they're here." followed by the Columbian Coffee logo, and the trademark "The richest coffee in the world." Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!palmj From: palmj@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Jyri L. Palm) Subject: EXPIRED!? Message-ID: <+d-zsn-@rpi.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 19:58:31 GMT Lines: 9 Does anyone know when and how a Usenet article gets "flagged" as expired? I just was reading the 143 articles, only to watch the last 95 wizz by as "expired." Why is the useless "crap" preserved for so long (i.e. - John Winston - which is ok to look at if it happens to be there), but the really interesting stuff has been wiped out? Sounds like a conspiracy of disinformation here... Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9501 sci.skeptic:31226 alt.conspiracy:18416 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 21:44:20 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: Distribution: world Lines: 181 In article jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: > >Much of what the above book talks about has been written about in other >works. Perhaps none as infamous as "Alternative 3". I have a copy of >this book, and if you are intersted, I will tell you how to get one >yourself, since I understand that some people have been looking for it >for years and never got it: > >East-West books, Menlo Park, CA 415- 325-5709 > >In the alternative 3 book, there is a great body of evidence, if only >some of it is circumstantial, that these are facts that have been >kept from us just as the UFO story has been. If fact, it could be the >main reason that the truth behind extraterrestrial visitation is a >secret... Now that the tired, old "Alternative 3" hoax is making its way again around Conspiracy circles, I scanned in an article I wrote 13 years ago, when it first surfaced. Guess what: you Conspiracy folk have been taken in by an old April Fool hoax! "BOOK, HYPE, AND SNOOKERED" by Robert Sheaffer (Book Review reprinted from the Nov.Dec., 1979 issue of the now-defunct magazine, "Second Look") ALTERNATIVE 3 by Leslie Watkins, David Ambrose and Christopher Miles. New York: Avon Books, 1979. Can a book be banned from sale in the United States? Well- known UFOlogist Gray Barker [died 1984] claims in his regular column in UFO Review (June, 1979) that this one was. The book's thesis that the end of life on earth is coming, and that only the elite of the world can be rescued, is purportedly too shocking for the government to permit the book's release. "I'm not going to risk trouble by trying to get a copy," Barker shudders (although after I effortlessly obtained a copy of the original British edition, no "Men In Black" came pounding on my door). An American edition of "Alternative 3" is available now. It is not difficult to see why the government might want to suppress the book, *if* what it says is true*. East/West tensions are a deliberate fraud, it says, a smokescreen thrown up to divert attention from the real danger now reportedly facing the world. The eco-alarmists are right, the authors contend: the world is now facing certain extinction due to an accelerating runaway greenhouse effect resulting from the buildup of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere from the combustion of fossil fuels. Alternative 1 was supposedly discussed by an elite panel of end-of-the-world brainstormers, and rejected as being impractical and hazardous: using a series of nuclear explosions to "punch holes" in the supposed envelope of carbon dioxide. Alternative 2 - moving the elite of mankind to live in underground cities - was also rejected as impractical and undesirable. That leaves us with Alternative 3: transporting the world's intellectual and governmental elite off the earth completely, using the moon as a way-station in the colonization, and eventual terraforming, of Mars. The technology to accomplish this is alleged to already be in existence: the space program as we know it is said to be just a diversion from the *real* space effort, a joint US/USSR venture, which is far more advanced than everyone has been led to believe. A lunar colony is claimed to already exist, managed by the elite "designated movers," where a corps of de-sexed, lobotomized slaves, tactlessly called "batch consignments," performs all of the manual labor. It is difficult for the casual reader to know what to make of Alternative 3. The book purports to be non-fictional (the British edition carries the categorization "World Affairs/ Speculation"), an adaptation of a supposedly earth-shaking TV documentary produced by Anglia TV. It is filled with references to real persons and real events. Otto Binder *did* make wild claims about weird objects that the astronauts supposedly sighted in space. Gerard O'Neill [died 1992] *did* make headlines with his advocacy of space colonies (the US/USSR conspirators are said to have debated whether Professor O'Neill should be done away with, since he knows so much: "not necessary," they decided. I wonder if he realizes how close to death he came!) We find references to Senator Edward Kennedy, astronauts Mitchell, Aldrin and Armstrong (as well as a fictitious moon-walker named "Grodin"), UFOlogist Dr. David Saunders and many others. We find many apparently authentic quotes from newspapers and magazines. Yet the book is obviously a novel. The dialogue is too contrived, and the protagonists' slam-bang uncovering of layer after layer or treachery and conspiracy is typical of low-grade spy novels. Can anyone truly convince himself that top American and Soviet officials meet regularly in docking submarines beneath the arctic ice cap to review conspiracy developments, and that the transcript of their ultra-secret deliberations would read like this? American 2: I told you we should have killed that guy Gerstein . . . way back in February . . . I said that he was dangerous . . . Russian 4: My friend is right . . . he did say that. And I pointed out that Gerstein's talk could start a panic among the masses . . . A 8: . . . and I propose an expediency. A 2: Seconded. R 8: Those in favour? . . . then that is unanimous. The method? A 3: How about a telepathic sleep job . . . maybe with a gun. R 8: that seems sensible . . . it's too soon after Ballantine for another hot job. Gray Barker devoted a full column to the book because of information received from an unnamed Major so-and-so. (The hints Barker drops appear to be chosen to make us immediately conclude "The Major" to be former NICAP director Major Keyhoe. But it is not. It is a different retired Major [Wayne Aho], living on the West coast, not nearly as well-known as Keyhoe, who has long been associated with Adamski-style contactees.) The Major attempted to buy one hundred copies of "Alternative 3" from the Canadian publishing firm or Thomas Nelson & Sons. Jim Gifford, the manager of the paperback division, informed the Major that the order could not be filled because, in his ill-chosen phrase, "the above title has been banned from sale in the United States." The Major apparently sent a copy of this letter to Barker, who picked up the football and ran a hundred yards, charging that this book was suppressed in the U.S. because it was embarrassing to the authorities, and that the "space program is a hoax" movie, "Capricorn One", was canned prematurely, supposedly for the same reason. Since, however, the full letterhead of Thomas Nelson & Sons is reproduced in the Barker piece, I wrote to Gifford asking if "Alternative 3" really was banned in the United States. He replied that it is unfortunate that Barker did not contact him before rushing off to print, as it would have saved considerable embarrassment on both their behalfs! The reason the book was supposedly "banned" in the U.S. , he explained, was that Avon Books had purchased the U.S. paperback rights. Had the Canadian firm filled the Major's order, it faced the risk of a whopping lawsuit from Avon Books. But are the startling claims of "Alternative 3" true? How do we explain the interviews with whistle-blowers, the tie-in with missing persons, the clues to allegedly mysterious deaths of prominent persons? Our British readers already know the answer: April Fool! As reported in "The Times" of London on June 21, 1977, the day after the TV version was presented, "Independent television companies last night received hundreds of protest calls after an Anglia programme, "Alternative 3", giving alarming "facts" about changes in the earth's atmosphere. It was a hoax, originally intended for April 1." Reporter Alan Coren observed that "the year's worst kept secret was that Alternative 3 was a spoof . . . if you know that 'a hoax is a hoax, how can you possibly attack it for lacking authenticity?" He suggested that had he not been in on the "secret" in advance, while the total preposterousness of the story itself might not have deterred belief, the acting was so unconvincing as to remove all doubt. It seems that we Americans, who almost never read the British press and whose own media have said virtually nothing about this matter, are having our credulity tested by the promoters of "Alternative 3". Some of us have already risen to the occasion, mustering credulity above and beyond the call of duty: Major A., Gray Barker (the first to write a book about the supposedly mysterious "Men In Black," whose existence has now been swallowed by Hynek, Vallee, Keel, Clark and many others), as well as Timothy Green Beckley, editor of "UFO Review". Don't be the next to bite the hook. The marketing of "Alternative 3" represents a real-world test of the old adage that a fool and his money are soon parted. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!LMJ4805 From: lmj4805@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Sep18.182319.4567@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxb.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: lmj4805@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <15184@mindlink.bc.ca>,<66005@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 18:23:19 GMT Lines: 19 In article <66005@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Everybody: Kebo it sounds good your suggestion about changing it >to l993. Jeff all you have to do is go to sleep a little before 110 PM >Calif. time and give yourself a presleep suggestion that when you go >to sleep you'll allow the rest of the astral train group to come up and >pick you up. I've suddenly got a mental block as to what the name of the >city that is just above the Gobie Desert. Maybe it will come to me >when we go there tonight. D and E usually have their own place that >they go, probubly aboard some spaceship or something like that and >that OK too. Bill your right anyone with any sense wouldn't do this >sort of thing in public. >John Winston. i have limited experience with self hypnotism, and i am wondering if it possible for anyone to do this with you guys. do you have to know me? do i have to know you? what kind of preparations should i make? should i hypnotize myself and suggest that i am picked up by the train? i am very curious about all this, any info would be appreciated. lee Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11841 alt.alien.visitors:9503 sci.skeptic:31228 alt.religion.kibology:3834 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!das.wang.com!wang!news From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) Subject: Re: July 4, 1993 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs Date: 17 Sep 92 08:28:52 GMT Message-ID: <2583@israel.nysernet.org> Followup-To: talk.religion.newage References: Sender: news@wang.com Lines: 13 In kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: I don't really have anything to say about last July. I just wanted to change the Subject: line to 1993, so that perhaps this thread can survive another year. Have a nice day. -- K. And stop those astral projections of your signature! -- /|/-\/-\ I'll leave you with this saying: |__/__/_/ If elected, Zippy pledges to each and every American a |warren@ 55-year-old houseboy... / nysernet.org Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a1432 From: a1432@mindlink.bc.ca (Gary D. Lee-Nova) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Spokesperson for Earth Message-ID: <15300@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 20 Sep 92 00:23:43 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 8 By my reckoning, the is only one human being on the planet who has the necessary qualifications; William S. Burroughs Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!agate!usenet From: william@moica.berkeley.edu (William E. Grosso) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesperson for Earth Date: 20 Sep 1992 00:56:52 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: <19gi8kINNll2@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <15300@mindlink.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinoko.berkeley.edu This is rather bizarre. We're trying to pick a Spokesperson for EARTH. Somebody to represent us in Outer Space. And everybody is suggesting either 1) People who are celebrities in America. 2) Diplomats involved in the cold war. The first category is absurd. The second is better. But, it seems more likely that we're going to need a representative who isn't used to dealing from a position of strength. Who can hold his own in ticklish situations. More than that, we need someone with a forceful personality. Someone who won't back down (unless it's absolutely necessary). And, someone who won't be afraid to do a little dirty work in our best interests. Thus, I place in nomination : Idi Amin. Bill Grosso (only half joking) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!mjbrown From: mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mike J. Brown) Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in ads Message-ID: <1992Sep20.030221.27112@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 03:02:21 GMT Lines: 20 >9. June 1992. Miller Lite commercial features a dog in a >rural ranch setting hearing something. He goes out back >where a party of 20 or more aliens is having a good >time. This segues into a segment on crop circles ending >with the work "Lite" as a crop symbol.(KR) I saw a commercial very similar to this one a few times within the past year, before this one started airing. The one I saw, which I think was also for Miller Lite, had a reporter standing in a field speculating on the causes of the crop circles, when all of a sudden in the background you see a bunch of guys carrying a huge, thick, round metallic object above their heads. They run to a spot behind the reporter, who babbles on unaware of the activity no more than 30 away, drop the disc and mash the wheat, pick up the disc, and run off. It was hilarious. Mike -- Mike Brown mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu "The Universe is a spheroid region 705 meters in diameter." Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!nmsu.edu!usenet From: rscott@spock.NMSU.Edu (Joseph Good) Subject: Alien evolution theory Message-ID: <1992Sep20.025754.7700@nmsu.edu> Sender: usenet@nmsu.edu Organization: New Mexico State University Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 02:57:54 GMT Lines: 29 Here's a quick theory while I'm waiting for a fractal to generate... On grey, pleadian, or any other alien evolution advancement: I think a question was brought up on how these creatures could be so far advanced than us, when the system they live in is younger than ours? If a society comes very proficient in genetic engineering, there would not be a need for natural selection any more. Evolution would be controled in a "as needed" fashion. Once that stage in technology is reached, then who knows what could be done. Suppose we had complete genetic control over our DNA. We could create a race of "scientists" with IQ's beyond anything we can imagine, and their whole purpose was to theorize and formulate idea's then put them to use. Think about it... So, they may not have been around much longer than us, just developed genetic technologies before we did. Maybe we'll catch up -- Joseph Good +-------------------+ - More than just a band.... | Green Dot Brigade | - It's a whole damn army of dots... +-------------------+ - And we've declared war on the 7-Up dots... rscott@nmsu.edu (NeXT mail welcome!!) (main account) atlantis@acca.nmsu.edu (Just plain ol' Unix) (seldom used) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!ziff!markp From: markp@ziff.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Sumerians Message-ID: <1992Sep18.183924.365@ziff.com> Date: 18 Sep 92 18:39:23 EDT Organization: Ziff-Davis, Medford MA Lines: 35 Hello, I was reading a book I recently got in the Time/Life series Mysteries of the Unknown, the title is Alien Encounters I. A few pages of the book touched on the ancient Sumerian culture, it was really the first I've ever heard of them. One of the main contributors to this subject in the book, was a guy (forget his name) who is supposedly only 1 of 200 or so people that actually can understand and translate Sumerian writings. There was a picture of a stone tablet, in which was carved a graphic representation of our solar system, which was amazingly accurate. Keep in mind this was supposed to have been made at some point around 1-2 thousand BC. The picture showed 12 heavenly bodies, one of which was the center point and largest, the Sun. It accounted for all 9 known planets, including Pluto which we've only known about for 40 or 50 years, and the Moon. Now it gets spookier. Sumerian writings also reffered to Uranus and Neptune as the 'twin planets'. The 12th heavenly body, beyond Pluto according to the writings, had such a wide orbit, that it would take 3600 Earth years to complete 1 revolution around the Sun. It was also written that the original Sumerians were actually from this 12th planet. Their planet's atmosphere was slowly being lost to space, and they needed gold (most abundant on Earth) to cure the problem. Humans were supposedly made from a combination of these alien's genes, and genes from apes, and were intended to do the mining for the alien's. I know this sounds wierd, but it was interesting to read about. Does anyone know any more about this, or know of any books on the subject. I will type in the article and post it if there is sufficient interest. Please post responses, thanks! Mark Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9509 alt.conspiracy:18421 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!bcm!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!milton.u.washington.edu!pul From: pul@milton.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies Keywords: Sneakers Message-ID: <1992Sep20.052411.5049@u.washington.edu> Date: 20 Sep 1992 05:24:11 GMT Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Lines: 28 The recently released movie "Sneakers" contains references to extraterrestrials and government conspiracies. In this well done comedy drama suspense movie, we have a bunch of guys skilled with cryptology and other super-spy skills trying to keep the ultimate computer code breaking device from falling into the wrong hands. A couple of the heroes used to work for the government, and one of them was always going into various government conspiracies. For example, there is a line where he says something like: "...so they take this Extraterrestrial Biological Entity up for an interview with Eisenhower, and Ike says, 'Hey, in exchange for your technology, you can have all the cattle lips you want!'" ... (to which his companion says "Oh gawd I don't have to listen to this crap!") Anyway, later he's reading a paper and makes the remark to his companion that "cattle mutilations are on the rise!" In various sections throughout the movie he makes references to other government conspiracies, like the JFK assination, as well. The interesting thing is that most of what he says is in accord with the main conspiracy theories as expounded on this group, so the movie makers did their homework. Actually, IMHO, the whole movie is very well done, and is delightfully done in good spirit, and yet has the vision to present various insightful statements concerning our moderm post-cold war world, so I give it my recommendation. -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- | Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen - pul@milton.u.washington.edu | -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!TRADER From: TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: re spokesperson for Earth Message-ID: <66219@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 23:16:30 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world Lines: 8 I presume the discussion about spokespeople for Earth had something to do with the Associated Press article a few days ago about radio astronomers having over 60 examples they believe are intelligent communications, but they were unable to keep the signals locked for more than a short period of time. My nomination : Laurie Anderson - she can sure describe the human condition... Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!TRADER From: TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: the -REAL- MAJI Message-ID: <66221@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 23:22:38 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world Lines: 6 I finally found a government reference to MAJI - the US Dept. of Commerce's National Technical Information Service (NTIS) uses MAJI as an acronym for the Tanzanian Waters Ministry (presumably something in French about Minstrie Aqua---). Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9512 alt.conspiracy:18422 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 08:03:14 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Sep20.052411.5049@u.washington.edu> Keywords: Sneakers Lines: 17 In article <1992Sep20.052411.5049@u.washington.edu> pul@milton.u.washington.edu (Arbaline) writes: >The recently released movie "Sneakers" contains references to >extraterrestrials and government conspiracies. In this well done I have not seen the movie yet, but when I saw the Redford was in it, I knew then that it would have a political, conspiracy slant, and I have had a mental note to see it soon since. Did anyone see the movie he was in, where he works for the CIA and he reads books? Someone highup in the Agency decides that everyone in his office needs to die, and he just happens to be out getting lunch, comes back and they're all dead. Anybody remember the name of that movie? It seems that since that time Redford has had a great interest in how the secret government operates and what is "really" happening. Jeff - Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk (Sean Eaton) Subject: The Portal. Cc: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 08:35:17 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 19 In article <66075@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes : [Lifted from the body of the text] : >Subject: The Portal. Part 1. [...] John, I've done it for you this time, but when you start a new mini-series could you *please* change the subject line in the news header (and not the top of the text) to something appropriate instead of posting it as a reply to old (and now stale) threads like "July 4, 1992" and the "Newage" ones ? I don't know how the Portal System is configured but I should imagine it does allow you some editorial control over the subject line. -Sean. --- asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk | warlock%spuddy@uknet.ac.uk Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9514 sci.skeptic:31233 alt.conspiracy:18423 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 08:41:50 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: Distribution: world Lines: 135 Although I do hate to beat a dead horse, it does seem that we need to set the record straight here with the pertinent facts such that people will not feel inclinded to subscribe to any proffered party line... Contrary to what people have written about reading in the Fortean Times and in Roberts latest post about Alternative 3, there are many issues surrounding the original broadcast in the UK Commonweath, and the subsequent book that are simply not addressed by cries of "hoax' and "april fools, ect." This initial airing on UK television was quit a stir for the folks over there. The show that originally broadcast and produced it was called the Science Report, a documentary non-fictional program, up until the time that the Alternative 3 program had been aired. So the folks tuning in were expecting non-fiction. Part of the mystery here all along was, "What had prompted the producers to deviate from the regular menu of documentary programing? It seemed very out of charactor, and must have been prompted by some interesting ideas they wished to promote. The book was published in 1978, the documentary in 1977. The authors of the book were Leslie Watkins and David Ambrose. The TV program aired with actors credits following the program at the end. This program aired June 20, 1977, so it seems that the April Fools pitch is contrived at best. Anyway, the different network presidents quickly issued statements in Britain, Cananda, and Australia claiming the show to be a hoax... seemingly by preasure from above. And the author Watkins has publicly stated that the book is 65% true, and 35% fiction. So in reality it is many facts collected together to support a fictional(?) conspiracy theory in the grand tradition that all conspiracy theories are postulated and proposed. Some of the ideas proposed in 1977's Alternative 3 were somewhat ahead of great public exposure to a host of environmental threats that we hear of daily in 1992; Global Warming Co2 release Overpopulation - Well, this one's been around a while, but it seems to be the one that no matter what, will bring use face to face with the mortality of the race, regardless of how well the planet can handle the first two issues in the next decades. Deforestation These topics were first brought to light in a conference held in Huntsville AL in 1957, the main topic even back then being the Greenhouse effect. One of the actors who was in the TV production actually attended the conference. One of the most interesting things about Alternative 3 is that there were facts reported on the show that were not released to the press untill over a decade later, and issues came up that seemed to be verifyable concerning Mars by visual evidence observable from Earth. First, the actor portraying a Prof. Girstin reported that a Russion missile carrying an atomic warhead had blown up on the pad in 1960, killing hundreds of Russian scientists. The reported mission of the rocket was to deliver it's warhead to Mars in the attempted terra forming of the planet. Life magazine stated NASA has openly discussed the terraforming of Mars, in its May 1991 issue "Our Next Home, Mars, Bringing a Dead World to Life"... It was not reported until 1991 by Russian authorities that in fact a rocket had exploded in 1960, killing more than 200 Soviet space experts, a missile reported to be part of thier balistics program (nuclear). So it becomes clear that the producers of the program had access to secret information at the time the program was aired. If you look closely, it becomes obvious that the program contained information that was much more than just vivid imagination, it was a product of investigative journalism, with some explainations for anomylous observations thrown in, such as never seen before cloud formations on Mars, observed from earth. Although officially, these observations were attributed to violent storms more powerful than ANY previously seen, could it be that the US/USSR does have a secret space program, they are actively attempting to terraform Mars, and we are seeing the effects of nuclear detonations that are creating these cloud formations on Mars? These are the questions that the book and the TV production ask, and it would seem that the authors were somehow privy to information the public was not... There are many books on the theory of the secret space effort, and while many of these theorys upon first investigation seem to be very far out, even outlandish, there is one thing you can be very sure of: NASA is charged with many duties that they do not speak of, there is a space effort by the US that is not publicised, there are technologies being used that could be far in advance of what we consider to be possible at this time, and that they won't tell use about it until they feel it will somehow promote thier agenda. What ever that agenda is; we don't know what it is, because of a trite little expression called 'national security' that has outlived its justifications. Furthur reading if your interested includes: International UFO Library magazine - Vol. 2, Article by Tony Dodd Moongate: Suppressed Findings of the US Space Program - W. Brian II We found alien bases on the Moon (or somesuch book I have seen around, but don't have yet.) The Secret Space Program - Herbert G. dorsey III (this book seems to have more information regarding Alternative 3 than anyother I have seen.) Cosmic Top Secret - William Hamilton The Vindicator Scrolls - Stan Deyo The Cosmic Conspiracy - Stan Deyo Behold a Pale Horse - William Cooper The Anit-gravity Handbook - Dr. Childress UFO Crash at Aztec - William Steinman Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) Subject: Re: Spokesperson for Earth Message-ID: Sender: news@phage.cshl.org Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs References: <15300@mindlink.bc.ca> <19gi8kINNll2@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 16:18:19 GMT Lines: 17 In article <19gi8kINNll2@agate.berkeley.edu> william@moica.berkeley.edu (William E. Grosso) writes: > > >This is rather bizarre. We're trying to pick a Spokesperson for EARTH. >Somebody to represent us in Outer Space. And everybody is suggesting >either > 1) People who are celebrities in America. > 2) Diplomats involved in the cold war. > >The first category is absurd. why? i say we chose Cicciolina and if the alien leader refused to suck tongue with her, we blast them. -- -- Pat Monardo -- pjm@cshl.org Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: <1t5naxh.rickg@netcom.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 17:36:45 GMT Organization: Netcom - Music of the Spheres in Stereo Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 45 As this is the penultimate Spokesman for Earth Nomination Update, it's appropriate to review the campaign and voting procedure at this juncture. Following the close of nominations at 00:00 GMT Monday, 21 September, the campaign will begin. Nominees and their supporters are encouraged to post articles to alt.alien.visitors arguing the case for the nominee. The campaign will end at 00:00 Monday, 28 September 1992. The Email address of the voting booth will be announced in this forum in advance of the vote. Votes timestamped from 00:00 Monday, 28 September to 00:00 Wednesday, 30 September 1992 will be counted. The winner will be announced Friday, 2 October 1992. And the nominees to date: Mikhail Gorbachev Walter Cronkite Bill Moyers Xaviera Hollander lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu Leader Kibo Cyrus Vance Cicciolina John Major Dr. Timothy Leary Mother Theresa Pierre Salinger Jesus of Nazareth Pele Stephen Hawking Margaret Thatcher Geoff Miller, American Gene Spafford Mel Gibson Carl Sagan Hilary Clinton Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno Boris Yeltsin Steven Spielberg and George Lucas "The Pope" Gary Stollman and John Winston The Dalai Lama Pee-Wee Herman Robert Redford Cindy Crawford Richard Nixon John Romer James Burke William F. Buckley Barbra Streisand Princess Diana Rick Gordon "Anybody but David Frost" Dizzy Gillespie Umberto Eco Johnny Carson Nelson Mandela Anita Hill Ingmar Bergman Samuel Ramey Aretha Franklin John Updike Frank Sinatra Li Po Jimmy Carter "Anyone in Bangladesh, Somalia, or parts of the former Soviet bloc that have been ruined by pollution" Ted Williams "someone who does something nice" Geoff Miller, Australian Robert Sheaffer Captain Kangaroo William S. Burroughs Idi Amin Laurie Anderson Mary Shafer Nominations will remain open until 00:00 GMT Monday, 21 September, 1992. -- Rick Gordon | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly rickg@netcom.com | and I did. I said I didn't know." M. Twain Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11844 alt.alien.visitors:9517 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66228@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 08:29:44 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <66075@cup.portal.com> Lines: 33 Subject: The Portal. Part 2. There is also a book (Smoky God by Willis George Emerson) that tells the story about a man and his son that equipped a small sailing ship for about a one and one half years ocean trip. They sailed towards one of the poles and after a while rather than the weather getting colder the farther north they traveled, the weather started getting warmer. It finally got so warm that they could sit out on the front of the boat in the open air. They found that at times there was red colored pollen in the air. Finally they saw a sun on the horizon that was not where our sun was supposed to be. It seemed that they were sailing over the edge on a temendously big lip of the earth. When they finallly got to the indide of the earth it was lighted by a centeral sun. They then came in contact with some very large people who were 15 or more feet tall. Now I may be getting the information from two or more books mixed up here. It has been a long time since I read all of this. The man appeared as a child to them. The inside of the earth men had large full beards. They were a peaceful race of people. After sometime the man and his son attempted to leave. The son finally made it back to the outside but after telling his story the people thought he was crazy and he quit telling his story for the rest of his life until he told the story again in full to another person as he was about to die. The next thing I heard about all of this was from a couple of tape recordings made by Dr. Wallace Halsey who is the nephew of Bull Halsey. Wallac was an engineer and a person who disappeared on a plane flight between Nevada and Utah (or two states in the USA). It was said that UFOs had something to do with his disappearance. His wife and friend Tarna Halsey collected a nice sum of insurance money about 10 years following his disappearance (or at least I was told this from another source). Back to the tape recording though. These tapes exlained how he and his friends made a trip up to Alaska to investigate the fact that flying saucers had been seen coming and going out of a hole that was in Alaska. This hole also led into the center of the earth. End Part 2. John Winston Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9518 alt.conspiracy:18434 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!caen!uvaarpa!concert!samba!usenet From: Bruce.Scott@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bruce Scott) Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies Message-ID: <1992Sep20.191728.1833@samba.oit.unc.edu> Keywords: Sneakers Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service References: <1992Sep20.052411.5049@u.washington.edu> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 19:17:28 GMT Lines: 23 jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: >...Did anyone see the movie he [Robert Redford, also in "Sneakers"] >was in, where he works for the CIA and he reads books? Someone highup >in the Agency decides that everyone in his office needs to die, and he >just happens to be out getting lunch, comes back and they're all dead... "Three Days of the Condor" -- the three days are those in which he had to survive before his pursuer changed sides and told him what he had got into. In the last scene, the pursuer (Max von Sydow, if I remember right) explains that he will someday be caught up with. Then saying, "For that day...", hands him a body pistol and walks away. Pretty good one, that. Gruss, Dr Bruce Scott The deadliest bullshit is Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik odorless and transparent bds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de -- W Gibson -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!mtu.edu!mtu.edu!ctschmid From: ctschmid@mtu.edu (Schmidt) Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: <1992Sep20.192157.6676@mtu.edu> Sender: news@mtu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: geolab3.geo.mtu.edu Organization: Michigan Technological University References: <1992Sep18.183924.365@ziff.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 19:21:57 GMT Lines: 9 I read somewhere - I forget where - that the Sumerians were the first to brew beer. Even spookier.... X -- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9520 sci.skeptic:31240 alt.conspiracy:18435 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!umeecs!dip.eecs.umich.edu!sechrest From: sechrest@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Stuart Sechrest) Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Message-ID: <1992Sep20.204134.22457@zip.eecs.umich.edu> Sender: news@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Mr. News) Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor References: Distribution: world Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 20:41:34 GMT Lines: 22 In article jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: > >One of the most interesting things about Alternative 3 is that there were >facts reported on the show that were not released to the press untill >over a decade later, and issues came up that seemed to be verifyable >concerning Mars by visual evidence observable from Earth. > >First, the actor portraying a Prof. Girstin reported that a Russion >missile carrying an atomic warhead had blown up on the pad in 1960, >killing hundreds of Russian scientists. . . . >It was not reported until 1991 by Russian authorities that in fact a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >rocket had exploded in 1960, killing more than 200 Soviet space experts, >a missile reported to be part of thier balistics program (nuclear). >So it becomes clear that the producers of the program had access to >secret information at the time the program was aired. Sorry, but this story appeared years ago. See James Oberg's ``Red Star in Orbit'' from 1980 or 1981. It was a prototype for their manned space flights and had nothing to do with nuclear rocketry. --Stuart Sechrest Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!gtephx!holms From: holms@gtephx.UUCP (Steve Holm) Subject: Re: Unsolved Mysteries UFO story Message-ID: <1992Sep17.231730.19292@gtephx.UUCP> Summary: I saw lights like were on the home video Organization: AG Communication Systems References: Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1992 23:17:30 GMT Lines: 21 About 4-5 years ago I was out in the national forest north of Flagstaff AZ, and saw something exactly like what was shown in the home movie segment (group of lights at one end and single light some distance away). No noise, very large, very slow moving but unfortunately it appeared to be a few thousand feet up. Convinced for years I had seen some sort of UFO, I found myself at a fire lookout atop a nearby mountain years later. We were asking the lookout if he ever saw any UFOs. He wouldn't admit to seeing anything strange but did suggest that the military practiced in-flight refueling in the area at night and maybe we were seeing a sighting pattern on a tanker plane. It was a bit of a letdown to now think I hadn't seen a UFO. But last night's program showed something exactly like what I saw and said nobody could identify it. My question is, does someone know exactly what kind of light pattern would be used for refueling, and would it be something like what was shown on the home video clip? -- Steve Holm AG Communication Systems Phoenix,AZ internet: gtephx!holms@enuucp.eas.asu.edu uucp: ncar!noao!enuucp!gtephx!holms Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <66242@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 92 16:24:10 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Lines: 31 Subject: Ruins Of The 30,000 Year Old City. Part 10. With in seconds they were back at Lancaster, Caif. (out in the desert). The whole trip didn't last much more than 20 minutes. R. mentioned how the Pleiadians had contacted Hitler a long time ago and about the aryan race. R. didn't want to have anything to do with it. I had always thought of the people form the Pleiades as all being a lot of straight shooters who always wore white hats. R. said it is true in most cases but these people have the power to do whatever they want. R. still didn't want to work with these people and told George that he should get something from outter space and give it to a science fiction magazine because they were offering a one half million dollars for proof of something from outter space or UFOs or what have you. This made George very mad and he wouldn't even talk to R or another friend George had for more than 15 years. R. then contacted George and asked him, "What's going to happen if I go to the News Media, the government and tell them the whole story"? Then George told R. that he would deny the whole thing. So R. never told me who George was, what organization he is with and I don't want to know. One of the stories taht R. told me was so far out that if you have a weak disposition maybe you had better stop reading this right now. Sometimes at night R. said that he had heard something let out screams. It wasn't a woman, bobcat or any type of animal he had ever heard before. He never did see what it was. A couple of his friends did say that they had seen something that stood up like a man that was about 6 feet tall. They started trying to get closer. It was standing out on a ledge. They thought it was a man until it flew away. The only thing that they could explain, was that it was a pterodactyl. I know those reptilian, skin covered remnants of the dinosaur age were supposed to be dead and gone a long time ago but that' what it looked like to them. End Part 10. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jcatesii From: jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu (James Cates III) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update Message-ID: <1992Sep21.011300.17073@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Sep18.144454.1@cubldr.colorad Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 01:13:00 GMT Lines: 7 Re: Spokesperson nominations An obvious choice seems to have been overlooked; Douglas Adams would do a grand job. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9524 talk.bizarre:74894 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!reese From: reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: Saga of the Family of Light II Message-ID: <1992Sep20.154002.8925@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 20 Sep 92 14:40:02 GMT References: <15132@mindlink.bc.ca> Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620 Lines: 14 In article <15132@mindlink.bc.ca>, Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) writes: > These family of light beings and the Pleiadians seem like very round about > long-winded talkers who have read too many new age books. Why are we always > being told how to run our lives by beings not even on this planet? these > Pleadians also talk about being duped and being careful of who we watch for > from the skies. Why should we believe even the Pleiadians then? Personally, I > think it is better to take control of your own life instead of letting anyone > or any alien lead you around by the nose. I've seen too many people do that > and then blame everyone else for their problems. Yes, those pesky little aliens are at it again, trying to muss-up your life. Just say no to aleiens poking their antenna into your business. Jason Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9525 talk.bizarre:74895 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!reese From: reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_* Message-ID: <1992Sep20.154147.8926@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 20 Sep 92 14:41:47 GMT References: <1992Sep17.101334.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620 Lines: 35 In article <1992Sep17.101334.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>, shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi writes: > > > Helleo, folks > > We've enjoied a nice tour in Alps. Last night we come back by train > and have a big sleep until we waked up at 4:30 AM in the morning. I > look at the darkness outside the window. Suddenly I find a slight > light spot floting about in the sky. It's about 300m away from the > train. It keep the same speed and flying without any noise. I taked > out my camera to shoot a few pictures. Later I asked my friends to > have a look on that UFO. But just in that very instant it disappear > in a unbelieveable speed. > > Fortunatlt I already get some negatives in my camera so that it's > hopeful to win that bet. Hmmm ... all those sleeping friends all > flamed at me and didn't believe it !!! It's Okay for me so I bet 40 > US$ with them. Cause the train it's still in Sweden and we will use > those money for breakfast ... > > Our train is leading to south. Both two side are snowing cliff. The > Snow cover the bare stone and soil, make the sence pretty beautiful > and everybody enjoy it ... > > BTW, the temperature will be continuly hot for a few weeks so we do > enjoy a sunny tour this time. And I will take that 40 US$ after I > have processed the film 8-) > > Ha, nice to talk with everyone here. Have a nice day !!! > > IMHO, I am learning how to process film now 8-) This is my favourite posting of the week. Jason Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jcatesii From: jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu (James Cates III) Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Sep18.183924.365@ziff.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 01:35:12 GMT Lines: 18 Regarding a theory (loosely termed at best) that the Sumerians could have been from a 12th. planet located farther from our only Sun than Pluto (and supposedly so far that it orbits only every 3600 Earth years!): Even 3 or 4 seconds of thought should offer that this is absurd. How in the world does a corporeal being survive in that sort of freezing waste? Earth is as populated as it is because of its ideal distance from a Sun of ideal size within the time of life's duration so far. When our Sun grows toa given size we shall have to move on obviously...perhaps _then_ we could survive more easily on a Mars or even a Saturnian Moon or two...things will change. The fact remains that said 12th planet would be so cold as a result of it's amazing distance from the heat source (Sun) that no life compatible with existence here could survive there. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 02:25:03 GMT Organization: Netcom - Phone Home References: <1992Sep21.011300.17073@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 14 In article <1992Sep21.011300.17073@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> James Cates III writes: >Re: Spokesperson nominations > >An obvious choice seems to have been overlooked; Douglas Adams would >do a grand job. Yes, I agree it's a pity Mr. Adams was not nominated before the deadline. Perhaps he can be used in advisory capacity, perhaps not. It's out of my hands, really. -- Rick Gordon | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly rickg@netcom.com | and I did. I said I didn't know." M. Twain Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!lanai.cs.ucla.edu!pierce From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: <1992Sep21.032533.5647@cs.ucla.edu> Sender: usenet@cs.ucla.edu (Mr Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: lanai.cs.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department References: <1992Sep18.183924.365@ziff.com> <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 03:25:33 GMT Lines: 16 In article <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu (James Cates III) writes: >Regarding a theory (loosely termed at best) that the Sumerians >could have been from a 12th. planet located farther from our only >Sun than Pluto >Even 3 or 4 seconds of thought should offer that this is absurd. >How in the world does a corporeal being survive in that sort of >freezing waste? And even if there were some sort of internal heat source or a greenhouse effect, it would at least be very dark. Were Sumerians (or their "gods") blind and without skin pigmentation? -- Brad Pierce -- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9529 sci.skeptic:31253 alt.conspiracy:18438 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 06:06:17 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: Distribution: world Lines: 67 In article jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: > >The book was published in 1978, the documentary in 1977. The authors >of the book were Leslie Watkins and David Ambrose. The TV program >aired with actors credits following the program at the end. This >program aired June 20, 1977, so it seems that the April Fools pitch >is contrived at best. > >Anyway, the different network presidents quickly issued statements in >Britain, Cananda, and Australia claiming the show to be a hoax... >seemingly by preasure from above. Yes, that's the standard response among conspiracy-ologists when any significant source repudiates wild claims made in his behalf. "Oh, the Conspirators *made* him deny it!" >Some of the ideas proposed in 1977's Alternative 3 were somewhat ahead of >great public exposure to a host of environmental threats that we >hear of daily in 1992; > >Global Warming > >Co2 release Oh, all this stuff is old hat. I can remember the first Earth Day in 1970, nothing has changed. > >First, the actor portraying a Prof. Girstin reported that a Russion >missile carrying an atomic warhead had blown up on the pad in 1960, >killing hundreds of Russian scientists. The reported mission of the >rocket was to deliver it's warhead to Mars in the attempted terra >forming of the planet. Life magazine stated NASA has >openly discussed the terraforming of Mars, in its May 1991 issue >"Our Next Home, Mars, Bringing >a Dead World to Life"... > >It was not reported until 1991 by Russian authorities that in fact a >rocket had exploded in 1960, killing more than 200 Soviet space experts, >a missile reported to be part of thier balistics program (nuclear). >So it becomes clear that the producers of the program had access to >secret information at the time the program was aired. Codswollop. Jim Oberg wrote of the rocket disaster in his "Uncovering Soviet Disasters" approx. 1987. It was known to specialists long before that. It was not until 1991 that the Russians *admitted* this was true. And it was NOT a nuclear explosion, it was a chemical rocket that blew up. The Russian scientists insisted that it was unsafe to service the rocket on the pad without draining the fuel, but Krushchev insisted they do so to keep ahead of the Americans. Many of their top experts were killed in the explosion, a major setback for their space program. And as for "terraforming", that's been kicking around a long time. Oberg wrote a big article on the subject for "Astornomy" magazine about 1975. His book "New Earths" was published in the late 70s. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 06:14:28 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Sep21.011300.17073@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Lines: 22 I am pleased to accept the nomination for "Spokesman for Earth." I am prepared to shamelessly beg, plead, or grovel for votes, as may be be required. My platform is simple: If somebody shows up and claims to be from another planet, I will quite adamantly state that I do *not* believe them. If, however, they present evidence that appears convincing, I will announce the news to the press, but only after selling first rights to the story to the National Enquirer for an unspeakable sum. After all, what is the point of being "Spokesman for Earth" unless one can make a buck from it? -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah From: dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >>> for Cyrus Vance, asst. Carl Sagan <<< Message-ID: <1992Sep21.073921.10839@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi Organization: VTT References: <1t5naxh.rickg@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 07:39:21 GMT Lines: 20 I nominated Cyrus Vance, as spokesman for the Earth. He is well-respected internationally for his career in government and international diplomacy, currently serving the U.N. in Yugoslavia and South Africa. He has been a long-time advocate of arms reductions and nuclear test bans. I also recommend Carl Sagan, among this list of nominees, to assist the spokesman as scientific advisor. He is a respected, competent and conscientious scientist, very knowledgeable of general science and technology of Earth. He has been a long-time advocate of arms control and enviromental concerns. Among others, I think the two best understand, in a practical sense, the contemporary social and scientific situation of Earth, are trust- worthy and well-respected internationally, and would best represent us as spokesman and advisor. D.H. \\\\\\\\\\\\ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!pjb From: pjb@cco.caltech.edu (Paul J. Brewer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Where is the driven Planetoid? Date: 21 Sep 1992 09:21:58 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 11 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu With the advent of school and my teaching assistantship duties rapidly approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in Fall of 1992. Well, where is it? Am I actually going to have to TA undergrad econ again or what? (interesting how you don't see any articles about this anymore, isnt it?) Paul Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!penny.WPI.EDU!drwho From: drwho@penny.WPI.EDU (Eric Ant Von Laudermann) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Date: 21 Sep 1992 13:29:57 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Lines: 18 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: penny.wpi.edu In article <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> pjb@cco.caltech.edu (Paul J. Brewer) writes: >With the advent of school and my teaching assistantship duties rapidly >approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven >planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim >the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in >Fall of 1992. Well, where is it? >Paul It's coming October 28, and will be disguising itself as Jesus Christ in order to trick people into thinking that that the Rapture is here. Haven't you been keeping up on this newsgroup? :-) :-) :-) --E.V.L. (drwho@wpi.wpi.edu) # "No. Try not. Do. Or do not. There Disclaimer: "It's all absolutely # is no try." --Yoda devastatingly true, except the bits # that are lies." --Douglas Adams # "Just do it." --Nike Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11847 alt.alien.visitors:9534 sci.skeptic:31268 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66275@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 06:45:10 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 17 Subject: Giant Rock Airport: There was an incident that happened at Giant Rock Airport many years ago that I would have liked to have seen. George VanTassel who was the owner of the airport was having a meeting of people who were interested in UFOs. It was sort of a study class. There were quite a few people in the room and George made the statement there could possubly be some space people even in the room as they were having their class. A person spoke up and said that he himself was a person from space. George then asked him if there was some way that he could prove that he was from space. The S. M. then asked if becoming invisible would prove it. George then got very excited and said, "Yes, that will do just fine." The S. M. then proceeded to become invisible while they watched him. George then said, "That was great. Wound you please do that again?" The S. M. did. The S. M. then said that another person in the room was also from space but the person close not to make his or her presence known because that person worked among the regualar people of earth and didn't want his or her identity to be made known. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!yale!news.wesleyan.edu!eagle.wesleyan.edu!jtulli From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesperson for Earth Message-ID: <1992Sep20.163003.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> Date: 20 Sep 92 20:30:03 GMT Organization: Wesleyan University Lines: 6 Nntp-Posting-Host: eagle.wesleyan.edu well, i don't know if this is valid but since other people have nominated people who are no longer with us (in the same incarnation anyway...) i nominate Harpo Marx. Jude Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9536 alt.conspiracy:18445 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: Winstollman. Acid AND Lithium ! Message-ID: <66279@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 07:53:38 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Sep15.190822.21014@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Sep17.081328.6570@ntb.ch> Lines: 3 Dear Flamers: I do believe that all of the people who flame me are talking in this particular group. It seems like you are having a lot of fun. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where can you get a good regressionist these days? Message-ID: <66280@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 08:06:54 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <18qrs8INNah3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Lines: 6 David asked where to get a person who deals with abduction and regressions. There is a Hypno-therapist in the San Francisco Bay Area that a few of my friends have gone to and have gotten good results. Her name is is June Steiner. She lives in the Los Gatos, Calif. area and her phone number is 408-378-5771. John Winston Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9538 alt.conspiracy:18446 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies Message-ID: <66282@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 08:29:53 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Sep20.052411.5049@u.washington.edu> <1992Sep20.191728.1833@samba.oit.unc.edu> Lines: 18 It seems that Keith is on to something here. It is my opinion that the government is going about a thing called Operation Awareness in which they are trying to spoon feed us a little bit of the truth and see how we react to it. They made a deal with the Greys and now want out of it. Many years ago the space people were shown as monsters and out to get us. The next thing they did was to paint them as being nice little guys like the movie E. T. Now they are telling the truth in the TV movie The Intruders. The good guys are still out there and we're still fooling around with a bunch of Greys who are abducting our people and not bringing some of them back. I've got one small suggestion; tear up the contract with the Greys ask the good guys (like the silver fleet from Mt. Shasta, or Don Showen's friend's from the Pleiades or the Ashtar Command) to come in and make the Greys leave. The good guys want to do it but are held back because the Greys say they have a contract with us. At the present time we are being soft-soaped through commercials to get us to liking the space people and that does to me seem good. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: VCR alert: Unsolved Mysteries - 16Sep92 Message-ID: <66283@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 08:42:29 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Sep14.130904.21349@csc.ti.com> Lines: 6 Alan, I glad you posted this information about UFOs on the Unsolved Mysteries. They seem to put out the truth. I once saw a person in Arizona who had been in the service during the Brentwater Incident in England and they did report that story very close to the truth. Dur to your mentioning the show I'll be sure and watch it. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!LMJ4805 From: lmj4805@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update Message-ID: <1992Sep21.131958.6557@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxb.isc.rit.edu Reply-To: lmj4805@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 13:19:58 GMT Lines: 30 In article , rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: stuff deleted here >Quite a few nominations for Earth Spokesman have come in, some in >And the nominees to date: > >Mikhail Gorbachev >Walter Cronkite >Bill Moyers >Xaviera Hollander >lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu >Leader Kibo >Cyrus Vance >Cicciolina >Dr. Timothy Leary >Mother Theresa >Pierre Salinger >Jesus of Nazareth >Pele <====================do we mean the soccer player, or the fire goddess of the hawaiian islands? >Stephen Hawking >Margaret Thatcher >Geoff Miller >Gene Spafford >Mel Gibson >Carl Sagan >Hilary Clinton > Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: <66284@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 09:03:38 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <92260.154350SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Sep17.070422.263@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Lines: 3 Dear People: Someone sent me a list of people through the mail. I'll do it if you give me a pick of my running mate. Just me and JC. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >>> for Cyrus Vance, asst. Carl Sagan <<< Message-ID: Date: 21 Sep 92 16:10:41 GMT References: <1t5naxh.rickg@netcom.com> <1992Sep21.073921.10839@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 43 In article <1992Sep21.073921.10839@ousrvr.oulu.fi> dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood) writes: >I nominated Cyrus Vance, as spokesman for the Earth. He is well-respected >internationally for his career in government and international diplomacy, >currently serving the U.N. in Yugoslavia and South Africa. He has been >a long-time advocate of arms reductions and nuclear test bans. > >I also recommend Carl Sagan, among this list of nominees, to assist the >spokesman as scientific advisor. He is a respected, competent and >conscientious scientist, very knowledgeable of general science and >technology of Earth. He has been a long-time advocate of arms control and >enviromental concerns. > I have been reading about how Cyrus Vance is the author of the "Global 2000" report that spells out how to control the population of the earth by various mass anihlation techniques, a sort of Illuminati type issue. So I would not want to vote for him. I have always had a lot of mixed emotions about Sagen. I have felt that he is a member of the establishment that would keep the existance of UFO's out of the public eye. He also supports SETI, and it is likely that SETE is just a cover for the various government agreements already made with ET races, so I don't think I will vote for him either. On the otherhand, Bill Moyers has been doing a good job lately of harasing the establishment on public television, has certain congress persons up in arms over his exposes, and has published several very openminded books, such as A World of Ideas, that bring forth many views from such notables as Isaac Asimov, Noam Chomsky, Steven Weinburg, and a host of others both Liberal Arts, and Science oriented. So I feel like I know he is on the side of humanity, and is good at represening it, regardless of his past in the LBJ administration, which probably served to get him active in helping people understand just what is happening in government. Programs such as the "Secret Gevernment" and "What's Wrong with America" are two find examples. I didn't nominate him, but T. Leary would also make a fine advisor, since he has always advocated change, and is a very smart guy. He has broad viewpoints that encompass world religion and science, as well as the social sciences. \ Jeff- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11849 alt.alien.visitors:9543 sci.skeptic:31274 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66286@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 09:26:10 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <60910@cup.portal.com> Lines: 0 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11850 alt.alien.visitors:9544 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66287@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 09:49:27 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 0 Xref: icaen alt.brother-jed:1199 alt.alien.visitors:9545 alt.conspiracy:18448 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: alt.brother-jed,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: What happen to Sister Cindy? Keywords: INVASION! Stollman clones Jed Message-ID: <1992Sep21.170937.15474@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 21 Sep 92 17:09:37 GMT References: <19b1euINNbqe@aludra.usc.edu> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 32 In article <19b1euINNbqe@aludra.usc.edu> eddy@aludra.usc.edu (George Edmond Eddy) writes: [...] >By far his best appearances were those when he met opposition with >"Rudy" long white haired, mid-thirties, 1970 surfer throw back. >Rudy was a *very* interesting character, he spoke about 700wpm >often using 6+ syllable terms, although i don't know that anybody >actually found his ramblings coherent for more than two senteces. >He could always be found wearing a white "voice amplification >viser" which had to be worn in order for him to be audible. >For those familiar with the Wally George show may very well >have seen him, as he was a frequent spectator with plenty to >say. > >Rudy was taken to a mental ward by the police a couple times, one >time crying "Please don't erase my brain", refering to sedatives >he was about to recieve. Are you sure his name was Rudy, and not Gary (Stollman)? And does anyone else find it more than a coincidence that the possibility of Brother Jed having clones has come up? I smell a conspiracy. RA rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu -------------------------- The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and ask for one. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!uofs!prijat.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@prijat.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: <11010@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Date: 21 Sep 92 16:04:09 GMT References: <92260.154350SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> Sender: news@uofs.uofs.edu Organization: Department of Computing Sciences Lines: 34 Nntp-Posting-Host: prijat.cs.uofs.edu In article <92260.154350SML108@psuvm.psu.edu>, SML108@psuvm.psu.edu writes: |> In article , jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) says: |> > |> >In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: |> >>>In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: |> >> |> >>I suppose this means you won't vote for Gorby: fair enough, there's |> >>room for opposing points of view here. As you didn't make another |> >>nomination, I'll add: |> >> |> >>Walter Cronkite. |> >> |> > |> >how about someone that is not a CIA spokesperson, and would like to |> >expose the secret government(s) for what it is? |> > |> >Bill Moyers. |> |> How about someone who wasn't a master of propaganda for Lyndon Johnson |> and can talk about what's really important... |> |> Xaviera Hollander How about someone we can all really trust!! Richard Nixon. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here, bill@platypus.uofs.edu | This space would be left intentionally blank bill@tuatara.uofs.edu | #include Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc=aav From: clc=aav@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: <44455@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Date: 21 Sep 92 16:15:49 GMT References: <1t5naxh.rickg@netcom.com> Sender: nnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk Reply-To: clc=aav@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 21 In article <1t5naxh.rickg@netcom.com> Rick Gordon writes: > The Email address of the voting booth will be announced in this > forum in advance of the vote. Votes timestamped from 00:00 Monday, > 28 September to 00:00 Wednesday, 30 September 1992 will be counted. > The winner will be announced Friday, 2 October 1992. I am happy to offer to the world an electronic voting booth, since no other people have volunteered for the job. The voting booth has already been tested for votations in other newsgroups. The email address will be announced Saturday, 26 September, but votes received before 00:00 GMT Monday, 28 September will be automatically discarded. Together with the announcement of the email address I'm going to post again the complete list of candidates and the relevant speeches, and, of course, the (simple) instructions to send your vote and have it automatically counted by a program, rather than relying on me doing the job by hand. Send email to clc=aav@dcs.ed.ac.uk if you have comments, or you want to offer an alternative email voting booth or whatever. Do not send votes to this address. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: <5v6n9fl.rickg@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 18:22:42 GMT Organization: Netcom - Town Crier for The Global Village References: <44455@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 23 In article <44455@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Claudio Calvelli writes: >I am happy to offer to the world an electronic voting booth, since >no other people have volunteered for the job. The voting booth has >already been tested for votations in other newsgroups. The email >address will be announced Saturday, 26 September, but votes received >before 00:00 GMT Monday, 28 September will be automatically discarded. I'm sure all of the readership will join me in thanking you for taking on this task. I will wait a little while longer before sealing the nominations, owing to the variations in news propogation. Several nominations arrived with a timestamp later than 00:00 GMT 21 September, and so were not included in the list. I should mention, by the way, my chagrin and embarassment when I realized I had mistakenly identified you as "Claudia" in an earlier post. I hope you'll agree it's an easy mistake to make, especially when, in this part of the world, anyway, there are many more "Claudia"s than "Claudio"s. My comments regarding your possible "husband" are, of course, inoperative. -- Rick Gordon | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly rickg@netcom.com | and I did. I said I didn't know." M. Twain Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: <0v6n_8l.rickg@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 18:27:20 GMT Organization: Netcom - Your Best Entertainment Value References: <11010@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 14 In article <11010@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Bill Gunshannon writes: >How about someone we can all really trust!! > >Richard Nixon. Sorry, the deadline for nominations has passed (00:00 GMT 21 September). That's a shame, as I'm sure Mr. Nixon would have made a fine nominee. > Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here, -- Rick Gordon | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly rickg@netcom.com | and I did. I said I didn't know." M. Twain Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update Message-ID: <1992Sep21.180215.12013@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 18:54:18 GMT Lines: 60 In article <1992Sep18.145626.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes... >In article , rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >> >> Quite a few nominations for Earth Spokesman have come in, some in >> Email to me, some posted to this newsgroup. I would encourage >> readers to post nominations rather than send them to me, so that >> the process can be observed by all interested parties. >> >(stuff deleted)> >> And the nominees to date: >> >> Mikhail Gorbachev >> Walter Cronkite >> Bill Moyers >> Xaviera Hollander >> lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu >> Leader Kibo >> Cyrus Vance >> Cicciolina >> Dr. Timothy Leary >> Mother Theresa >> Pierre Salinger >> Jesus of Nazareth >> Pele >> Stephen Hawking >> Margaret Thatcher >> Geoff Miller >> Gene Spafford >> Mel Gibson >> Carl Sagan >> Hilary Clinton >> >> The Dalai Lama > >> Clearly, some of these nominations were made with irony, or at least >> humor, in mind. I have not dropped any nominations from the list, since >> the intent of the respondent is often ambiguous. >> >> Nominations will remain open until 00:00 GMT Monday, 21 September, 1992. >> >> -- >> Rick Gordon | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly >> rickg@netcom.com | and I did. I said I didn't know." M. Twain I would like to nominate myself... Mary Stanley for this position... and I would like to point out that.. unlike some of the other nominees.. I am alive (a useful feature in what is essentially a communications job). On my behalf, I'd like to say that I would fairly represent all of humanity, and the life and being of the planet and all it contains. I have a good solid relationship with all the aliens I've met and feel we would work well together. And.. I'm willing to work for food (Earth food only please... due to allergies and biological restrictions). Thank you. Mary Stanley Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Alien evolution theory Message-ID: <1992Sep21.180921.12493@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 19:04:38 GMT Lines: 37 In article <1992Sep20.025754.7700@nmsu.edu>, rscott@spock.NMSU.Edu (Joseph Good) writes... > >Here's a quick theory while I'm waiting for a fractal to generate... > >On grey, pleadian, or any other alien evolution advancement: > >I think a question was brought up on how these creatures could be so >far advanced than us, when the system they live in is younger than ours? > >If a society comes very proficient in genetic engineering, there would >not be a need for natural selection any more. Evolution would be >controled in a "as needed" fashion. Once that stage in technology is >reached, then who knows what could be done. Suppose we had complete genetic >control over our DNA. We could create a race of "scientists" with IQ's beyond >anything we can imagine, and their whole purpose was to theorize and formulate >idea's then put them to use. Think about it... > >So, they may not have been around much longer than us, just developed genetic >technologies before we did. Maybe we'll catch up > >-- > >Joseph Good >+-------------------+ - More than just a band.... >| Green Dot Brigade | - It's a whole damn army of dots... >+-------------------+ - And we've declared war on the 7-Up dots... > >rscott@nmsu.edu (NeXT mail welcome!!) (main account) > >atlantis@acca.nmsu.edu (Just plain ol' Unix) (seldom used) But perhaps being smart isn't enough to survive... look what science has brought to our own systems... nuclear waste and nuclear bombs... it takes more than brains to survive complex societies.. it takes wisdom too. Maybe they need to catch up. :-) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <1992Sep21.181556.9349@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 35 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 18:15:56 GMT In article <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu>, pjb@cco.caltech.edu (Paul J. Brewer) writes: |>With the advent of school and my teaching assistantship duties rapidly |>approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven |>planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim |>the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in |>Fall of 1992. Well, where is it? Am I actually going to have to TA |>undergrad econ again or what? First of all "GET A LIFE!" |>(interesting how you don't see any articles about this anymore, isnt it?) No it is not because it is pure BS. |>Paul Steve food_for_the_Grays -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah From: dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >>> for Cyrus Vance, asst. Carl Sagan <<< Message-ID: <1992Sep21.193733.28880@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi Organization: VTT References: <1t5naxh.rickg@netcom.com> <1992Sep21.073921.10839@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 19:37:33 GMT Lines: 16 In article jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: ... > >I have been reading about how Cyrus Vance is the author of the "Global 2000" >report that spells out how to control the population of the earth by >various mass anihlation techniques, a sort of Illuminati type issue. > >So I would not want to vote for him. \\\\\\\\ Please quote whatever you've read that says that Cyrus Vance advocates anything like this. If it were so, I wouldn't support him either. D.H. Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31289 alt.alien.visitors:9554 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!glassboro.edu!cass8806 From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again Message-ID: Date: 21 Sep 92 19:54:27 GMT References: <6s4n7d+.sheaffer@netcom.com> Sender: news@gboro.glassboro.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ Lines: 20 Nntp-Posting-Host: bizlab210.glassboro.edu In article <6s4n7d+.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >Many of you no doubt recall the excitement last June concerning a supposed >video of a UFO shown on "Hard Copy", taken from a NASA camera on the >Space Shutle (STS-48). Certain UFOlogists of little critical acumen >insist that it is a UFO being chased by some "secret weapon," even >though NASA says, quite correctly, that the objects are just tiny pieces >of ice being pushed away by an attitude control thruster firing. etc. as a former professional astronomer, i've seen countless things that to the untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satelites, weather balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) as long as "hard copy" keeps katering to people with brains the size of walnuts i fear that these misrepresentations will continue, unchecked. it is a detriment to all real scientists and science itself that these things occur and are allowed to occur. kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 20:38:11 GMT Organization: Netcom - A World of Difference in a Different World Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 38 Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed. Supporters of candidates are now encouraged to post persuasive arguments why a particular candidate will execute the duties of Spokesman better than anybody else. The campaign will end at the opening of the voting booth at 00:00 Monday, 28 September, 1992. Voting will end at 00:00 Wednesday, 30 September, 1992. The candidates are: Mikhail Gorbachev Walter Cronkite Bill Moyers Xaviera Hollander lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu Leader Kibo Cyrus Vance Cicciolina John Major Dr. Timothy Leary Mother Theresa Pierre Salinger Jesus of Nazareth Pele Stephen Hawking Margaret Thatcher Geoff Miller, American Gene Spafford Mel Gibson Carl Sagan Hilary Clinton Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno Boris Yeltsin Steven Spielberg and George Lucas "The Pope" Gary Stollman John Winston The Dalai Lama Pee-Wee Herman Robert Redford Cindy Crawford Richard Nixon John Romer James Burke William F. Buckley Barbra Streisand Princess Diana Rick Gordon "Anybody but David Frost" Dizzy Gillespie Umberto Eco Johnny Carson Nelson Mandela Anita Hill Ingmar Bergman Samuel Ramey Aretha Franklin John Updike Frank Sinatra Li Po Jimmy Carter "Anyone in Bangladesh, Somalia, or parts of the former Soviet bloc that have been ruined by pollution" Ted Williams "someone who does something nice" Geoff Miller, Australian Robert Sheaffer Captain Kangaroo William S. Burroughs Idi Amin Laurie Anderson Mary Shafer Harpo Marx -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31291 alt.alien.visitors:9556 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!bvickers From: bvickers@valentine.ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again Nntp-Posting-Host: valentine.ics.uci.edu Message-ID: <2ABE39AF.20807@ics.uci.edu> Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Reply-To: bvickers@ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept. Lines: 25 Date: 21 Sep 92 21:07:59 GMT References: <6s4n7d+.sheaffer@netcom.com> cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes: >as a former professional astronomer, i've seen countless things that to the >untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like >flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satelites, weather >balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) as long as "hard copy" >keeps katering to people with brains the size of walnuts i fear that these >misrepresentations will continue, unchecked. it is a detriment to all real >scientists and science itself that these things occur and are allowed to >occur. #define SOAPBOX The problem goes a little deeper than yellow journalism, I think. In a country where missiles are valued over diplomas, pork barrels get filled before school coffers, and televisions supplant teachers, you are going to find a lot of misinformed folk buying pseudeo- scientific arguments. The proliferation of creationism, UFOlogy, and pop psychology in the USA is a testament to a country whose members and political leaders have lost sight of rational priorities. #undef SOAPBOX -- ___ _ _ _ _ _ ( _) ___ ___ _( )__( )_ ( )( ) o __( ) _ ___ ___ ___ (___)(_) (__=) (_)_ (_)_ (__) (_)(_((_)(_'(__=)(_) _(_) Brett J. Vickers (bvickers@ics.uci.edu) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins Message-ID: Sender: news@phage.cshl.org Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs References: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 21:15:23 GMT Lines: 9 In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: > >Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed. Supporters of that's great. now what exactly is Spokesperson for Earth? -- -- Pat Monardo -- pjm@cshl.org Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: Date: 21 Sep 92 22:03:13 GMT References: <1992Sep18.183924.365@ziff.com> <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 17 In article <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu (James Cates III) writes: > >Regarding a theory......attitude deleted....................... >How in the world does a corporeal being survive in that sort of >freezing waste? Earth is as populated as it is because of its >ideal distance from a Sun of ideal size ................. Possibly the planet is heated from an internal source which is much hoter than our own magma core. Maybe it's something yet unknown to us who are still humble enough to admit we don't know everything. -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!haley From: haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor) Subject: 18 Frames of Unsolved Mysteries UFO (2 GIFS) Message-ID: Sender: news@unixg.ubc.ca (Usenet News Maintenance) Nntp-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 20:45:28 GMT Lines: 32 This weekend, I fired up my digitizer to do some analysis on that UNsolved Mysteries home video of lights in the sky. I was able to get 18 frames fairly evenly spaced (dont have the best VCR) over the some 28 seconds of the clip. I converted each frame to 16 color grey-scale and created a strip sequence of the light formation. By doing this I was able to remove the camera motion, and allow more careful observation. BTW, if you find yourself taping a UFO, *please* do not play with the zoom lens (unless you need to get a closeup of the driver ;). Anyway, I don't know what kind of "experts" viewed this tape (as the show claims) because it does not appear to be a rigid body. If it is a rigid body it would have to be argued that it rotates wrt the camera. This would really be grasping as the tape shows little signs of rotation IMO. So my conclusions are the lights on the home video could be airplanes. It really provides little proof one way or the other. Don't believe me? Well you can see for yourself! This 18 frame sequence fits in two small .GIF (or IFF) files (~12K total). I could upload the files to some public FTP site - if someone could kindly point me in the right direction, or post it if there is enough interest. ...now where do you think they dug up that UFO photo (circle of (xmas?) lights), it bore little resemblance to witnesses descriptions or the video. Don't be fooled Unsolved Mysteries is after ratings. -- Ross MacGregor | These views are my own and can be considered haley@unixg.ubc.ca | absolute truth. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 22:31:45 GMT Organization: Netcom - Home of the Hits References: Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 15 In article Pat Monardo writes: >In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >> >>Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed. Supporters of > >that's great. now what exactly is Spokesperson for Earth? A typo. Let's stay focussed, shall we? >-- Pat Monardo -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!manson From: manson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob Manson) Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: <1992Sep21.231907.16206@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1992Sep18.183924.365@ziff.com> <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 23:19:07 GMT Lines: 16 In article dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) writes: >Possibly the planet is heated from an internal source which is much >hoter than our own magma core. Maybe it's something yet unknown to us >who are still humble enough to admit we don't know everything. I don't know everything, but I do know how incredibly unlikely it is for life to exist on a totally inadequate planet for the purpose; heck, Mars would've been a better choice for a planet to move to, and it's not that great... One thing's for certain; whatever's living on Pluto didn't evolve there. There just isn't enough energy for the purpose, or it would've become apparent that Pluto was a heck of a lot brighter than everything else out that far... Bob manson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!manson From: manson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob Manson) Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: <1992Sep21.232050.16265@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University References: <1992Sep18.183924.365@ziff.com> <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1992 23:20:50 GMT Lines: 3 Oh, and by the way, in case there's still any doubt, I've been to Pluto. There's no life there. Bob Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Jung on UFO coverup Message-ID: <1992Sep21.164239.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 21 Sep 92 23:42:39 GMT Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Here's a pertinent quote from Carl Jung: "If...the extraterrestrial origin of the phenomena (i.e. UFOs) should be confirmed...it would be chiefly our science and our technology which would have to be consigned to the scrap-heap. What such a catastrophe would mean on the moral plane we can in some sort judge by the ruin of primitive cultures of which we are the witnesses. *THAT THE CONSTRUCTION OF THESE MACHINES PROVES A SCIENTIFIC TECHNOLOGY, AND ONE IMMENSELY SUPERIOR TO OURS, ADMIST OF NO TWO OPINIONS.* Just as Pax Britannica put an end to the disputes between the tribes of Africa, so our world could unroll its Iron Curtain and use it as scrap iron, with all the millions of tons of guns, warships and munitions. But we would have been *discovered* and colonised -- sufficient reason for universal panic! If we wish to avoid such a catastrophe, the authorities in possession of important information should not hesitate to enlighten the public as soon and as completely as possible and should, above all, stop these ridiculous antics of mysteries and vauge allusions. (Original emphasis) Lou Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11855 alt.alien.visitors:9564 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66312@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 17:20:07 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 0 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11856 alt.alien.visitors:9565 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66313@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 17:35:29 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <64271@cup.portal.com> <64309@cup.portal.com> Lines: 0 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >>> for Cyrus Vance, asst. Carl Sagan <<< Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 00:54:32 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Sep21.073921.10839@ousrvr.oulu.fi> <1992Sep21.193733.28880@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Lines: 22 In article <1992Sep21.193733.28880@ousrvr.oulu.fi> dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood) writes: >>I have been reading about how Cyrus Vance is the author of the "Global 2000" >>report that spells out how to control the population of the earth by >>various mass anihlation techniques, a sort of Illuminati type issue. >> >>So I would not want to vote for him. > >Please quote whatever you've read that says that Cyrus Vance advocates >anything like this. If it were so, I wouldn't support him either. > I have been reading about Cyrus Vance in the book The Conspirators Hierarchy: the Committee of 300. Dr. Coleman, the author appears to be an Ex-MI6 officer, and people have written to me about the substance of his book being accurate. Also, it is entirely possible that he got the information about Cyrus Vance from another source in the bibliography of his book, so it may be one of several sources for this information regarding the authorship of the Global 2000 report. Jeff- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins Message-ID: Date: 22 Sep 92 03:13:00 GMT References: Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 66 rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed. Supporters of candidates are now encouraged to post persuasive arguments why a particular candidate will execute the duties of Spokesman better than anybody else. ... since I nominated no less than three people, I shall speak on behalf of each. John Romer - eminent historian, specializing in Egyptian and Biblical history. He has written a number of books, and has used them as a basis for at least three documentary series (seen in the US on The Learning Channel and Discovery Channel) -- "Testament", "Ancient Lives", and "Romer's Egypt". He has a fine understanding of the subtleties of human society and beliefs, and is (according to someone I know who was a student in one of his courses) a fine teacher -- that is, he can communicate his understanding well. (Having read a couple of his books, I agree.) He would be an excellent choice to explain human societies to others (and other societies to humans in terms they can understand), and be able to see the larger contexts of cultural interaction. James Burke - Historian and author of at least three books on technology and society ("The Day the Universe Changed", "The Impact of science on society" (actually a lecture he gave, along with Jules Bergman and Isaac Asimov), and "Connections"), the last of which was also an excellent documentary (seen in the US on The Learning Channel.) Most recently he participated in the interesting "After the Warming", a speculative 'documentary' about the phenomenon of global warming set in the future (seen in the US on various public TV stations). He is well versed in the issues of technological change and how it affects human society. (To give you an idea, the critical technical invention of human history is, according to Burke, the plough.) He would be very good at interfacing with another culture because he well knows the history of high-to-low technology culture interaction, along with a detailed and subtle understanding of how technical (and social) progress works, and would be able to see how such a future interaction might be carried out without catastrophic results. William F. Buckley - Conservative wild-man, author, ex-editor of the "National Review", host and chief spear-carrier of the long-running current-issues television show "Firing Line". Like him or hate him, you cannot deny that he is a very smart guy. Well versed in various philosophical schemes (most of which he pokes fun at), he is able to pull them into the real world and argue specifics and generalities well (and often at the same time! :-) Buckley would be a fine negotiator, since as anyone who has seen him in action knows, he cannot be pinned down on anything, and never runs out of points (no matter how obtuse) to keep on plugging, even if he's losing (actually, especially if he's losing.) Charles Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9568 alt.conspiracy:18458 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!fuug!ichaos!archtwr!swob!maxxon From: maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies Keywords: Sneakers Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 09:03:36 EDZ References: Distribution: world Organization: Sweet Oblivion Lines: 16 jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: > Anybody remember the name of that movie? It seems that since that time > Redford has had a great interest in how the secret government operates > and what is "really" happening. Three days of the Condor, I believe. It's based on a book (don't remember by whom) which is called SIX days of the Condor. -------- maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio) Sweet Oblivion (+358 0 8092678, V.32bis 8N1) Official SRP Headquarters Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au!u925599@postoffice.utas.edu.au From: u925599@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Christian Stapelberg) Subject: Re: Alien evolution theory Message-ID: <1992Sep22.041431.12021@newsroom.utas.edu.au> Sender: news@newsroom.utas.edu.au Organization: University of Tasmania References: <1992Sep20.025754.7700@nmsu.edu> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 04:14:31 GMT Lines: 9 In article <1992Sep20.025754.7700@nmsu.edu>, rscott@spock.NMSU.Edu (Joseph Good) writes: Excellent theory, Dude! No, this is not sarcastic. It really is very good. Only one thing, they could have made themselves look a bit nicer, though... Regards, Chris. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 05:00:37 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1992Sep21.232050.16265@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Lines: 13 In article <1992Sep21.232050.16265@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> manson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob Manson) writes: >Oh, and by the way, in case there's still any doubt, I've been to >Pluto. There's no life there. > Bob Sorry Bob, you missed the obvious. There was indeed life there during your visit. :^) Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!cs.joensuu.fi!jlavi From: jlavi@cs.joensuu.fi (Jarkko Lavinen) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: The campaign begins Message-ID: <1992Sep22.083519.14959@cs.joensuu.fi> Organization: University of Joensuu References: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 08:35:19 GMT Lines: 23 rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >Nominations for Spokesman for Earth are now closed. Supporters of >candidates are now encouraged to post persuasive arguments why a I think persons like Mother Teresa, The Dalai Lama and perhaps Jesus fall on the class who might be a good candidate. All of them are nonselfish people who think more of other peoples good than their own. Dalai Lama might have best abilities for this purpose, physically. Mother Teresa's health is not so good these days. Jesus might be good option if these visitors could travel in time, especially now that there are so many years in his life that are not desribed in bible. During these lost years he could be assigned for this job and returned later on to be crusified. :-). Dalai Lama is alive so he is right now a better choice than these two. All those people who think more themself than just good for mankind would indeed represent people, showing the evil nature of human. I don't see idea of seeing pope or Idi Amin representing earth... So I say yes for the Dalai Lama. >Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." Jarkko Lavinen Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66346@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 06:49:07 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <15184@mindlink.bc.ca> <66005@cup.portal.com> Lines: 37 Subject: The Picture. Back many years ago there was a flying saucer convention where people interested in UFOs would come together and listen to people talk on that subject (the place was called Giant Rock Airport). Some of them had contacted the space people and had taken rides aboard the space craft from other planets. It was during one of these conventions that Tarna Halsey (a physical lady on earth today who remembers her previous life on Venus) was talking to her husband and a person who they both knew was from another planet. Her husband was Dr. Walllace Halsey. He was the nephew of the late Bull Halsey, the Navy Admiral of World War 2 fame. Wallace was also an engineer and well educated. Tarna wanted to take a picture of her husband and his space friend. The space man told her that she shouldn't take a picture of them at that time because he wouldn't show up on the picture but just a light would be seen. Tarna then told him that she had just bought that poloroid camera and she could get a picture of anything. She took the picture and it came out as the S. M. said. She took another with the same results. The S. M. then said that he had tried to tell her that the picture would come out that way because he and Wallace had been talking about very high frequency and spiritual things and his body was at such a high freq. that the camera would not pick it up. Later on Wallace and the S. M. came back and Tarna was told by the S. M. that she could now take his picture and it would turn out OK because they had been talking and thinking about lower freq. physical things. She took the picture and it came out normal. Years later after Tarna had been trained and taught about many things by the space people one of her friends came up and wanted to take her picture and she told her the same things the S. M. had told her before. Her friend was excited and thought that would make even a better picture. She took Tarna's picture and she came out as just a light and the rest of the picture came out normal. Tarna also was told that she would be taught how to appear in more than one place at once. The last thing that I heard about Tarna is that she was lecturing at a UFO convention in Arizona. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: Date: 22 Sep 92 13:16:22 GMT References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Distribution: usa Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 17 In article <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> pjb@cco.caltech.edu (Paul J. Brewer) writes: >............ I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven >planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim >the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in >Fall of 1992. Well, where is it? ............... >Paul I believe the date was to be in October. -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!purdue!spaf From: spaf@cs.purdue.EDU (Gene Spafford) Subject: Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: Sender: news@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (USENET News) Organization: Department of Computer Sciences, Purdue University Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 14:19:09 GMT Lines: 47 I found it a distinct...surprise...to be nominated as spokesman for Earth. Unlike other nominees, I am alive (mostly), have never served in a political office, am not primarily employed in the entertainment industry, and I remove my clothes in public only occasionally. However, anyone who has been on the net for over 8 years should recall me being labelled as the Usenet's first extra-terrestrial, and several of my postings were to that effect. Thus, I'm not sure if I'm still qualified for such an exalted position. Then again, maybe that gives me an advantage of some additional perspective. Hmm, I wonder if the University news service would want to know about this? I wonder if I need to get the dean's approval to engage in this activity? (They have to approve all my positions as committee chair and editor for other ogranizations, so this may be similar.) Note that my contract with Purdue University states that I can't serve in any capacity against the state of Indiana (e.g., expert consultant in a lawsuit). Thus, if aliens demanded to colonize Muncie in return for not invading Earth, or wanted to impregnate all the mammals in Fort Wayne, I would be in a conflict of interest situation. I think it only fair to state that up front. (However, if the aliens wanted to vaporize Gary or especially Bloomington, that might be arranged.) If it is necessary for me to travel off-planet, can I get frequent flier miles? Can my wife accompany me for half-fare? Not that these are requirements, mind you, but they sure can make a difference if I have to travel a lot. I mean, my wife would probably have a fit even if I only went as far as Barnard's Star and then tried to call home collect. It would be much easier to just take her along. However, she probably wouldn't be up for any kind of party involving live refreshments or particpants with tentacles, so if that was a required diplomatic kind of event, I'm not sure what I'd decide to do. Plus, I'm not sure she'd be interested in social events at the breeding pits. Perhaps you can elect Cindy Crawford as my deputy, and we just won't tell my wife? Hmm, that probably isn't a stellar example of honesty, but then again, you want a Spokesman who can bluff a little if it's for the good of Earth, eh? Let's see....as far as qualifications go, I've had most of my shots, these are my own teeth, I currently live and work on Earth, and I can definitely speak. I'm not sure if there are other qualifications, but I'm sure you'll let me know if more information is needed. Any idea where I'd list this on my vita? Would it help me get tenure? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!convex!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: Jung on UFO coverup Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Message-ID: <1992Sep22.150742.6466@news.eng.convex.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 15:07:42 GMT References: <1992Sep21.164239.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: magnum.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 15 In article <1992Sep21.164239.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >Here's a pertinent quote from Carl Jung: > >"If...the extraterrestrial origin of the phenomena (i.e. UFOs) should >be confirmed...it would be chiefly our science and our technology which ... Can you provide a reference to where this quote came from? Thanks -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Portal. Message-ID: <66350@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 07:30:34 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 5 Dear Sean: I made a request to the powers that be for them to pull the plug on the July the 4, but everybody seems to still want it to keep going. I'm still talking and people are having a good time trying to shoot me down with flames so I keep on keeping on. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11860 alt.alien.visitors:9577 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66348@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 07:14:11 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <66075@cup.portal.com> <66228@cup.portal.com> Lines: 2 Please disregard those articles with nothing on them I was experimenting. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11861 alt.alien.visitors:9578 sci.skeptic:31318 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66347@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 07:06:51 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66275@cup.portal.com> Lines: 18 Dear Fellow Traveller: In regards to the ESP experiment with Big Al I was off in some cases and on in others. Al says that he did go to sleep but I tried to pick up some information anyway. In cases where I told him that I was guessing I was wrong, like his name is Big Al so he was either big or small, I told him that I guessed that he weighed 247 or more. I was wrong by over 100 lbs. (I don't remember exactly how many he said). Al tells me he is more than normal height. I told Al that he cussed a lot and was a very sensitive person. That turned out to be correct. I did send out a message and two pictures to Al and some of you may have picked up them also. The message was the saying they use to check out a typewriter- The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The first picture was for the men and it was a a picture of Madonna the singer with her pointed bra on. The second was for the women. It was Arnold Schwarzenegger the movie star on the beach bending down on one knee with his elbow on his other knee and he he is flexing is bicep muscle in his arm. Big Al wants to continue the experiment. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: <66351@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 07:41:30 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Sep18.183924.365@ziff.com> Lines: 4 Dear Mark: There is a book that has the words The 12 Planet in its title that has a lot to say about the subject you are talking about. It also talks about Wormwood which is mentioned in the bible. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!udel!gvls1!cs.widener.edu!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!pacbell.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!fccvde.enet.dec.com!klimasewski From: klimasewski@fccvde.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO talk shows? Message-ID: <1992Sep22.151944.9355@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 22 Sep 92 15:16:06 GMT Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 5 Does anyone know of any UFO talk shows that might be available via a Satellite TV receiver? Ken Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.bbn.com!ulowell!woods.ulowell.edu!cotera From: cotera@woods.ulowell.edu Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: <1992Sep22.114033.1@woods.ulowell.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: usenet@ulowell.ulowell.edu (News manager - ulowell) Organization: University of Lowell References: <1992Sep16.163538.21805@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 16:40:33 GMT Lines: 21 In article , rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: > In article <1992Sep16.163538.21805@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov> Julie Kangas writes: > >>In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: > >>>Mikhail Gorbachev. >> >>*Blech* >> >>I'm sure the Lithuanians would really like him to be their spokesman. > > I suppose this means you won't vote for Gorby: fair enough, there's > room for opposing points of view here. As you didn't make another > nomination, I'll add: > > Walter Cronkite. > >>Julie> > Rick Gordon Double *Blech* I nominate Richard M. Nixon, our greatest president ever. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9582 alt.conspiracy:18463 sci.skeptic:31326 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: FILE: Roswell - Twining/Schulgen Letter Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 16:59:41 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Sep15.040343.3970@bilver.uucp> Lines: 64 In article <1992Sep15.040343.3970@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >Re: Roswell/Twining-Schulgen Letter >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >[What follows is the letter from Lt. Gen. Nathan Twining, commanding the >Air Materiel Command, to Brig. Gen. George Schulgen, chief of Air Force >Intelligence. The format below matches the original document. This is >from: _The Roswell Report: A Historical Perspective_, George M. Eberhart Yes. Please note that this a a letter FROM Lt. Gen. Twining, the commander of the Wright-Patterson AFB (where the "crashed saucer" was supposedly taken in July, 1947) TO his commanding officer in Washington, DC. >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >SUBJECT: AMC Opinion Concerning "Flying Discs" 23 September 1947 > >TO: Commanding General > Army Air Forces > Washington 25, D. C. > ATTENTION: Brig. General George Schulgen > AC/AS-2 > > h. Due consideration must be given the following: - > > (2) The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash > recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the > existence of these objects. > Now, those who believe in the supposed "saucer crash at Roswell" must accept one of two possible explanations for this strange statement: 1. The Conspirators brought in huge amounts of saucer crash debris to Wright-Patterson AFB, but said "let's not tell the base commander about this. He doesn't have a high enough security clearance to know!" (In which case, Lt. Gen Twining might someday ask, "What are all those people doing over in Hanger 18? I didn't authorize that!"), or 2. Lt. Gen. Twining is lying to his commanding officer, perhaps because Gen. Schulgen doesn't have a high enough security clearance. ("I know all about this Roswell crash, but I'm going to lie to you about it, SIR!) Military officers typically disapprove strongly when they learn that those who report to them have been lying to them. Such moves tend to be career limiting, and are generally not considered wise. More likely, The Conspirators forged this letter, to throw us off the track. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31327 alt.alien.visitors:9583 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!news.univie.ac.at!tuvie!chx400!sparccvo!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again Message-ID: <1992Sep22.161556.3290@ntb.ch> Followup-To: Kyle Keywords: Nasa UFO video Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 16:15:56 GMT Lines: 28 Kyle writes: >As a former professional astronomer, I've seen countless things that to the >untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like >flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satellites, weather >balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) .. Ah, the telling words here are "to the untrained eye could be considered .." I think it's unfair to assume that people's brains are "the size of walnuts" just because theirs is an untrained eye. I agree that most sightings are easily explainable (yes, most), but someone who has *not* experienced the wealth of data available, who sees something weird in the sky and then assumes it is indeed an alien craft, does not necessarily fall into the category of moron. By the way, this "object" seems to be the one I have on a commercial video, and I personally am convinced that it's aircraft in formation. I later read a report that some young people from a flying club had been taken to court for flying in formation at night in order to frighten people on the ground. The "eye-witnesses" interviewed on the video would fall into the "first impression" and "untrained eye" category, as far as I could tell. Heaven knows what I used to believe! Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31328 alt.alien.visitors:9584 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!news.univie.ac.at!tuvie!chx400!sparccvo!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 16:19:05 GMT Lines: 12 While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case, I came across one from London in 1837 - about a chap who had "the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him "Spring Heel Jack". Is there anyone in GB who knows any more about him? Cheers, Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11863 alt.alien.visitors:9585 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <44558@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Date: 22 Sep 92 16:41:20 GMT References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <66075@cup.portal.com> <66348@cup.portal.com> Sender: nnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 9 In article <66348@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > Please disregard those articles with nothing on them I was experimenting. > John Winston. Dear John: Thanks for telling us. I assumed that they were subliminal messages but I could not quite get them. I leave you with this message: Do not believe in what you read here. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!iWarp.intel.com|ichips!intelhf!thekid From: thekid@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Brian Kidby) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: 18 Frames of Unsolved Mysteries UFO (2 GIFS) Message-ID: <1992Sep22.181537.19344@intelhf.hf.intel.com> Date: 22 Sep 92 18:15:37 GMT References: Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro OR Lines: 23 haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor) writes: (Stuff Deleted) >I could upload the files to some public FTP site - if someone could kindly >point me in the right direction, or post it if there is enough interest. (More Stuff Deleted) >Ross MacGregor | These views are my own and can be considered >haley@unixg.ubc.ca | absolute truth. There is an archive of "UFO" and space-related pictures (various formats) on ftp site phoenix.oulu.fi, in the sub-dir "/pub/ufo_and_space_pics". I would personally be interested in obtaining copies of your .GIFs. Please, either e-mail them to me, or post them to the above site. Please .... Please .... PLEASE! :> -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own. brian_kidby@ccm.hf.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11864 alt.alien.visitors:9587 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66370@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 12:28:53 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 35 Subject: Portal. Part 3. Our military had the area well closed off but the bush polots did go into the general area where the hole was and did see the UFOs coming in and out. The holes that are at each one of the pole are supposed to be about 1500 miles across and the lip of the sides going into the center of the earth is very gradual. The gravity makes it hardly noticable when you go over the sides. Most of the flying saucer going into the Inner Earth are of the good type but a small percentage of them are bad. You may be aware of what is called cattle mutilation cases where UFOss are seen leaving the area. In New Mexico about 7 or more years back there was a nice pony (horse) by the name of Snippy. This horse was killed and parts of its body were cut up by very sharp instruments very much as if a surgeon had done the cutting. Paarts of its brain matter and bone marrow were removed. UFOs were seen around the area about the time this happened. In a report that was from the space people who watch the earth and keep it safe the good space people said that this was done by some very low vibration spaced people that have a remote base and come from the center of this earth. The guardian space people said that due to all of the bad thoughts that we earth people are putting out at the present time, it causes these type people to be able to come into our atmosphere. They say we should try to raise the frequnecy of our thoughts by thiking about love and peace rather than lust, hate and war. Our scientist have found that many planets have a hole on both ends with a centeral sun and when these planets rotate just right the centeral sun shines out and make the planet light up. Some people say that they can see this opening from the pictures printed in Look or Life magazines showing the earth from our moon rockets. I once read a story in some informtion that was from the Boderline Research Association that I don't know and the people who printed it didn't know whether it was true or not but never let it be said that I ever failed to tell a story just because it was not true. Let's just say that this story has a grain of truth to it and is food for thought. End Part 3. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: <89965@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 22 Sep 92 19:15:07 GMT References: <11010@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> <0v6n_8l.rickg@netcom.com> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <0v6n_8l.rickg@netcom.com>, rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: > In article <11010@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Bill Gunshannon writes: > > >How about someone we can all really trust!! > > > >Richard Nixon. > > Sorry, the deadline for nominations has passed (00:00 GMT 21 September). > That's a shame, as I'm sure Mr. Nixon would have made a fine nominee. > If you pinheads read the list of nominees, you would see someone has already proposed Nixon. Me. JM. I'll probably vote for Kibo or Laurie Anderson. they both have very convincing words to convince an audience (although in a different register). Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <66378@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 13:35:38 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Lines: 34 Subject: Ruins Of The 30,000 Year Old City. Part 11. Now you might not believe that pterodactyls are alive and well today and I'm not for sure that it is true but something did happen last year that made me think a little bit. A commuter plane nearly crashed after the pilots looked out the window and saw a flying dinosaur coming right at the aircraft. Seven of the 24 passengers on the short flight between Manaus and Urucara, Brazil were slightly injured when the plane descended to get out of the way of the winged beast. "It was the most frightening thing I ever saw in my life," says stewardess Maya Caybon, 24, who was preparing the passengers for landing when the pterodactyl suddenly flew beside the aircraft and peered in the window. It was only about 6 feet away. The plane's pilot Arturo Domiano and Oscar Maldonado, radioed an SOS to the air trafic controllers. Dr. George Biles-one of two Americans on board-has provided a detailed account of the terrifying episode. He was able to get several snapshots of the massive creature as it flew beside the airplane. Biles, a 46-year old anathropologist, says there's no doubt whatsoever that the plane was "buzzed" by a pterodactyl - a flying reptile thought to be extinct at the time the dinosaurs disappeared from the earth. "I've seen many sketches of pterodactyls, so I know exactly what they look like," says Biles. "This is a classic case of a white pterodactyl with a giant wing span. "Of course I've heard the rumors for many years that these prehistoric creatures still roamed the Amazon. But I was skeptical like everyone else. "You know, we scientists don't believe anything until we see concrete evidence. Until that point, It;'s only a theory. "Well, I've got the proof. It's on the pictures. "That certainly wasn't an airplane or a UFO flying beside us. It was a pterodactyl." So this is me, (John) talking now. I hope he comes up with some good pictures and shows them to the world. End Part 11. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.bizarre:75158 alt.alien.visitors:9590 Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) Subject: New Cereal! Message-ID: Summary: hmmm good Sender: news@phage.cshl.org Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 20:56:24 GMT Lines: 6 New cereal recently introduced by Post: Circle K. It is made entirely from wheat harvested from the crop circles in the UK. -- -- Pat Monardo -- pjm@cshl.org Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9591 sci.skeptic:31344 alt.conspiracy:18466 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Date: 22 Sep 1992 21:28:49 GMT Lines: 43 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: jeffp@netcom.com's message of 20 Sep 92 08:41:50 GMT In article jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: Although I do hate to beat a dead horse, it does seem that we need to set the record straight here with the pertinent facts such that people will not feel inclinded to subscribe to any proffered party line... Contrary to what people have written about reading And read about writing, too! in the Fortean Times and in Roberts latest post about Alternative 3, there are many issues surrounding the original broadcast in the UK Commonweath, and the subsequent book that are simply not addressed by cries of "hoax' and "april fools, ect." Hey! Stop spitting! This initial airing on UK television was quit a stir for the folks over there. The show that originally broadcast and produced it was called the Science Report, a documentary non-fictional program, up until the time that the Alternative 3 program had been aired. So the folks tuning in were expecting non-fiction. Part of the mystery here all along was, "What had prompted the producers to deviate from the regular menu of documentary programing? It seemed very out of charactor, and must have been prompted by some interesting ideas they wished to promote. [...Rest of article deleted...] Well, you've convinced me. There is no tradition of the BBC doing outrageous April Fools hoaxes with a straight face. So this must be true. I only have one question: when IS the Italian spaghetti harvest? I want to attend the post-harvest feast at least once before I force my way onto the escape ships... -30- Bob ``Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.'' -- J. R. `Bob' Dobbs Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31345 alt.alien.visitors:9592 rec.arts.sf.written:13546 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.sf.written Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!cyclops.eece.unm.edu!rsquires From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 21:13:15 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> Lines: 19 In article <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: > >While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case, >I came across one from London in 1837 - about a chap who had >"the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued >by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him >"Spring Heel Jack". Is there anyone in GB who knows any more about him? > Glad to oblige. Any Tim Powers fan knows exactly who Spring Heel Jack is, as he figures prominently in the wonderful _The Anubis Gates_. Which is probably as deep as you need to go on the subject. > >Paul Milsom Roger Squires rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 21:24:14 GMT Organization: Netcom - Your Only Choice References: <89965@netnews.upenn.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 19 In article <89965@netnews.upenn.edu> Jean-Marc Vezien writes: >If you pinheads read the list of nominees, you would see someone >has already proposed Nixon. Me. Quite so. We are waiting for Mr. Nixon's post in support of his candidacy. Perhaps you could use your influence to convince him it's the right thing to do. >JM. >I'll probably vote for Kibo or Laurie Anderson. they both have >very convincing words to convince an audience (although in a different >register). Yes, Kibo's is 32 bits wide, Laurie's is occasionally basso profundo. -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!nntp!lightnin From: lightnin@obsidian.WPI.EDU (Paraaaaaaaaade of Shoooooooooes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Spokesperson for the Earth - My Proposal Date: 22 Sep 92 17:44:00 Organization: DeityCo: Major and Minor Deities Placement Agency Lines: 66 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: obsidian.wpi.edu Hello, I am known (on this list anyway) as lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu. That's my current E-mail address. However, I feel before I really get started that I should properly introduce myself. Here goes. The name is Derek Greggory Bacon, son of Stephen and Lorraine Claire Blue Bacon. That should place me squarely enough in family tree searches that if you really care about that sort of thing, you can find out. Alternately, I am known as lightnin, Letterman!, Gadaiyio Takeimienei, and 'weirder than Gub'. I'm not sure what all of the different names mean either, but that's beside the point. You can call me Derek or lightnin, it's what I answer to most often. As for my views of Spokesperson for the Earth. I don't feel that this is a one person job. Originally, I felt that all of the nominees should form a council and that way present as complete and unified a viewpoint to any potential aliens we might enounter. However, I think the list of nominees is way to long for all of them to be members now. Perhaps a council size of 11 or so, would be a good way to go. You could have different people on the council to represent different areas of human life. If possible, they should not all be liberal, or all conservative, or all american, or all far eastern, they should represent a cross-section of human society. This is how I feel. However, I've expressed this opinion before, and it didn't get me very far. The people on this group seem to want to elect one person. Let me get to my qualifications for this. My most important qualification is the fact that I can type this article for myself. By this I mean, that I have access to Usenet and the Internet. This gives me an advantage over many of the other candidates, I believe, because I have access to the largest and most diverse source of opinions ever developed by mankind. Not only that, but I will listen to the concerns of the people here. I will be available to everyone. This provides the shortest, most direct route possible for everyone on the planet to communicate with the aliens, short of everyone actually walking up and saying 'Hi!' which seems impractical. This sort of supports my concept of a Spokescouncil for the Earth as well. In essence, everyone on this system will be a member of the council, lurkers as well, and we'll all be speaking with the aliens. Now on to more realistic qualifications. I'm a student, I have no wife or family to tie me down. Should this position include travelling with the aliens to some kind of neutral setting (say just this side of the moon) where they won't have 100 nuclear missiles aimed at their heads, I can do it. No wife or girlfriend to nag me into staying home. Should this diplomatic position involve parties at which unusual things are eaten or worn, I won't be offended. I understand that we aren't all human, that we don't all have the same tastes, or even the same nutritional requirements. I'm not bound by any contracts to remain impartial or to side with one side in a dispute over another. I got citizenship the easy way, I was born into it, and I didn't have to take that oath. So, there can be no conflict of interest for me. Let me just close by saying that when you vote for me for this position, you vote for yourselves. Sure, potentially we could give William F. Buckley, or Cindy Crawford, or even Jesus of Nazareth an Internet account and a Usenet connection, but what are the odds that they'll listen. I will, I've been reading this and other groups for over four years now. I do listen. I will listen. Thank you. -lightnin (Derek Greggory Bacon) Xref: icaen talk.bizarre:75168 alt.alien.visitors:9595 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken!taurus!rpwhite From: rpwhite@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite) Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: New Cereal! Message-ID: <6376@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil> Date: 22 Sep 92 22:55:20 GMT References: Reply-To: rpwhite@cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite) Followup-To: talk.bizarre,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.religion.ms-windows Organization: Monterey Bay Yacht Club, Monterey CA Lines: 13 pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) writes: >New cereal recently introduced by Post: Circle K. >It is made entirely from wheat harvested from the >crop circles in the UK. HA! This is a joke, right? What do you think we are? Idiots? We all know that the circle with a K in it on a food product means that the product in question was taste-tested by Kibo at the factory. I'm sure that if Post were to use this as a name that Bill "Kibo" Gates would sue immediately. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) Subject: Re: Spokesperson for the Earth - My Proposal Message-ID: Sender: news@phage.cshl.org Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs References: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 23:34:25 GMT Lines: 13 In article lightnin@obsidian.WPI.EDU (Paraaaaaaaaade of Shoooooooooes) writes: > > >My most important qualification is the fact that I can type this article >for myself. By this I mean, that I have access to Usenet and the Internet. wow, impressive. that means you're as capable of emacs' yow-mode. i should have nominated emacs yow-mode with TCP streams. -- -- Pat Monardo -- pjm@cshl.org Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!klinzhai.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@klinzhai.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Jung on UFO coverup Message-ID: Date: 23 Sep 92 00:50:45 GMT References: <1992Sep21.164239.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Sep22.150742.6466@news.eng.convex.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 32 >> >>"If...the extraterrestrial origin of the phenomena (i.e. UFOs) should >>be confirmed...it would be chiefly our science and our technology which ... >Can you provide a reference to where this quote came from? Its been a long time since I read it, but its almost certainly from Jung's UFO book: AUTHOR Jung, Carl Gustav, 1875- TITLE Flying saucers; a modern myth of things seen in the skies. Translated from the German by R.F.C. Hull. PUBLISHER London, Routledge & Paul [1959] DESCRIP 184 p. illus. 19 cm. NOTES Translation of Ein moderner Mythus. SUBJECTS Flying saucers. RLIN ID G59003449B from the German: AUTHOR Jung, Carl Gustav, 1875- TITLE Ein moderner Mythus; PUBLISHER Zurich, Rascher-Verlag, 1958. DESCRIP 122 p. illus. 23 cm. SUBJECTS Flying saucers. LC CARD 58028384 RLIN ID G014728614-B ... i.e. the book is from 1958 (Jung died in 1961.) Charles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11866 alt.alien.visitors:9598 sci.skeptic:31352 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Sep22.172434.383@dct.ac.uk> Date: 22 Sep 92 16:24:34 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu><66275@cup.portal.com> <66347@cup.portal.com> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 17 In article <66347@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > over the lazy dog. The first picture was for the men and it was a > a picture of Madonna the singer with her pointed bra on. The second > was for the women. It was Arnold Schwarzenegger the movie star on the > beach bending down on one knee with his elbow on his other knee and he > he is flexing is bicep muscle in his arm. Big Al wants to continue the > experiment. > John Winston. No gays on the psychic train then? -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!geac!r-node!marc From: marc@r-node.gts.org (Marc Fournier - Sys Admin) Subject: Re: Alien evolution theory Message-ID: <1992Sep22.234254.6120@r-node.gts.org> Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX Information System (416-249-5366) References: <1992Sep21.180921.12493@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 23:42:54 GMT Lines: 19 In article <1992Sep21.180921.12493@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: > >But perhaps being smart isn't enough to survive... look what science has >brought to our own systems... nuclear waste and nuclear bombs... it takes >more than brains to survive complex societies.. it takes wisdom too. Maybe >they need to catch up. :-) > Perhaps...but if you follow the theory presented, then chances are these 'aliens' either totally avoided nuclear fusion for fission (or am I backwards?) or have already gone through that period? Marc -- Marc G. Fournier | R-node Public Access Unix running UnixBBS 1.03 Etobicoke, Ontario | 416-249-5366 24hrs 7 days/week network email voice: 249-4230 | shell accounts available 1800+ newsgroups FREE marc@r-node.pci.on.ca | Telebit WorldBlazer/SupraModem2400/Cardinal 2400 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uunet!munnari.oz.au!titan!hal!jbm From: jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) Subject: Vote for LA CICCIOLINAAAAAAA!!!!!! Message-ID: <1992Sep23.045859.13203@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 04:58:59 GMT Lines: 34 Fellow netters, Earthlings, La Cicciolina, born porn artist, member of the Italian parliament, is our the perfect Spokesman er... Spokeswoman for this planet. As Pat Monardo wisely said on Sunday, 20 September at about 16:18:19 GMT, if alien leaders refuse to suck tongue with her, we blast them. Thanks to La Cicciolina we will be able to tell our Outer Space Friends from our Enemies! No more shilly-shallying about whether the baddies are Greys, Zeta Reticulians, Denebian jellyfish, or Algol users, with La Cicciolina, we'll be able to separate the men from the boys, and without a crowbar either. La Cicciolina has declared herself for Universal Love and she has demonstrated her dedication to this noble ideal time and again, publicly, not only with her whole soul, not only with her whole body, but also with every hole of her whole body. Her political career gives her experience which other contenders who may also qualify on love (Mother Teresa), holes (Xaviera Hollander) or tongue-suckability (Cindy Crawford), sorely lack. At any rate, as an alien leader incognito here, I give it to you loud and clear: if you send me anyone but La Cicciolina to suck tongue with (that's our customary greeting), it's curtains for your miserable slime ball. LA CICCIOLINA SAVIOUR OF THE EARTH! Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9601 alt.politics.kibo:141 alt.religion.kibology:3894 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <11010@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> <0v6n_8l.rickg@netcom.com> <89965@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 05:36:38 GMT Lines: 16 In article <89965@netnews.upenn.edu> jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes: >I'll probably vote for Kibo or Laurie Anderson. they both have >very convincing words to convince an audience (although in a different >register). Incidentally, my Optimum Pitch, as determined by my voice instructor, is low B. (It's hard to tell, though, with my nasality.) On those days where I magically control my velum to be non-nasal, I sound like Adam West, so I prefer my natural nasality. Ten million repetitions of "Nancy, hand the man the dandy candy" didn't eliminate it, and I'm happy. I prefer sounding like Mr. Rogers to Adam West any day. -- K. Xref: icaen alt.religion.kibology:3895 alt.alien.visitors:9602 alt.politics.kibo:142 Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: New Cereal! Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <6376@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 05:40:09 GMT Lines: 23 In article <6376@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil> rpwhite@cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite) writes: >pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) writes: > >>New cereal recently introduced by Post: Circle K. >>It is made entirely from wheat harvested from the >>crop circles in the UK. > >HA! >This is a joke, right? >What do you think we are? Idiots? >We all know that the circle with a K in it on a food product means that the >product in question was taste-tested by Kibo at the factory. I'm sure >that if Post were to use this as a name that Bill "Kibo" Gates would >sue immediately. You're confusing Bill Gates with Ray "Kibo" Kroc, who is still alive and secretly living in Kukamonga. He's going to sue the KKK for trademark infringement to the tune of six kibillion dollars, and when they can't pay, he'll take over and transform the KKK into an organization devoted to racial harmony and the elimination of bad kerning. -- K. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!sparccvo!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: ARE YOU KIDDING? Message-ID: <1992Sep23.100645.19044@ntb.ch> Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <1992Sep22.083519.14959@cs.joensuu.fi> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 10:06:45 GMT Lines: 38 Hello everyone, "Am I to take this "Spokesman Earth" seriously or not?" I asked. Unfortunately my ego got the better of me. (ACIM students nod in sympathy) So here goes: If you really think about it, can any politician be impartial? Is there anybody out there in the world who would honestly represent us without any bias? Don't forget, he'd be speaking for the bombed in Kurdidstan, the flooded out in Bangladesh, the deprived, the subjugated, the raped, the beaten, the politically outwitted, the disillusioned ... Is there anybody who could represent these people (as well as us) without having some interests of their own? Only two. One of them is difficult to get hold of, and probably wouldn't want to do the job, as it's our soul (spirit) he wants to save, not the material bit. The other one is someone I saw last year in Liechtenstein. He was speaking about World Peace, and his message was a shock. - How can YOU people think of *world* peace when YOU have hatred in YOUR hearts? It starts with YOU. He was not at all bitter about the relocation/resettlement campaign going on in his country, the murder and subjugation. He said the only way to world peace is when we all start thinking about peace and love, not justice. This guy gets my vote: The Dalai Lama. Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!eagor Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: eagor@cix.compulink.co.uk (Darren Bird) Subject: Aliens Reply-To: eagor@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 10:35:17 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 9 Hi there Just a test message for me. I am in England Has anyone seen Alien 3 Is it any good Darren Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!amigans!ed Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Beelzebub Message-ID: From: ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 23:30:41 GMT+1 Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand Lines: 27 Have any readers done some serious research on this subject? There seems to be an over emphasis here on phenomena as opposed to causality. After all, there have been luminaries historically. I refer to G J Gurdjeff and Peter Ouspensky et al. Is anyone sharp enough out there to source the following quote? "In the 1920s, Gurdjeff decided to write down his ideas in the form of a vast book called "All and everything, Beelezebub's Tales to His Grandson". He decided to apply his principle of 'work' to the book, and deliberately wrote it in an incredibly long-winded and complicated style, to force his readers to make an enormous mental effort to grasp his meaning. Beelzebub, flying around the earth in a space ship, tells his grandson about the 'three brained beings' on the planet earth, and their peculiar tendency to treat fantasy as reality. This is because a commission of archangels got worried about man's developing powers and planted in him an organ called Kundabuffer, whose purpose is to keep him from achieving 'objective consciousness'. It all sounds disturbingly familiar, doesn't it? Old,too. Maybe John is right after all? :-) Seriously though folks, has anyone made a serious attempt to collate and correlate all the information available into a coherent synopsis as to what the hell is really going on with respect to aliens, abductions and psi phenomena in general. It is my belief that the latent psi capabilities of the human mind hold the key to the mystery. Skeptics don't bother - either you know or you don't. There is no in between. ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9606 alt.conspiracy:18477 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!brunix!brunix!dzk From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies Message-ID: <1992Sep23.130157.23616@cs.brown.edu> Keywords: Sneakers Sender: news@cs.brown.edu Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 13:01:57 GMT Lines: 15 jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: #Did anyone see the movie #he was in, where he works for the CIA and he reads books? Someone highup #in the Agency decides that everyone in his office needs to die, and he #just happens to be out getting lunch, comes back and they're all dead. # #Anybody remember the name of that movie? It seems that since that time #Redford has had a great interest in how the secret government operates #and what is "really" happening. "Three Days of the Condor" co-starring Fay Dunway and Max Von-Sidov. Good movie. -Danny Keren. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11868 alt.alien.visitors:9607 sci.skeptic:31361 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66449@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 06:19:37 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu><66275@cup.porta l.com> <66347@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep22.172434.383@dct.ac.uk> Lines: 6 Dear People: All people are welcome on the Astral Team no matter what they are. Many people are joining through E-mail. I figure I must have an army of spiritual and space people helping me now so come one come all you'll get someone to help you. They are very busy but this is importanat to them, so jump on the Astral Band Wagon. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11869 alt.alien.visitors:9608 sci.skeptic:31362 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66450@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 06:23:56 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Train Riders: The 11 weekly train will blast off tonight at 1100psm. so get your astral bags packed. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11870 alt.alien.visitors:9609 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66451@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 06:29:04 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <66075@cup.portal.com> <66348@cup.portal.com> <44558@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Lines: 3 Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to think, at least I hope so. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!kksys.com!edgar!brainiac!lmt!alexa@county.lmt.mn.org From: alexa@county.lmt.mn.org (Alex Alexander) Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> Sender: usenet@lmt.mn.org Nntp-Posting-Host: alexa.lmt.com Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 19:38:36 GMT Lines: 38 In article <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, drwho@penny.WPI.EDU (Eric Ant Von Laudermann) writes: > > In article <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> pjb@cco.caltech.edu (Paul J. Brewer) writes: > >With the advent of school and my teaching assistantship duties rapidly > >approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven > >planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim > >the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in > >Fall of 1992. Well, where is it? > > It's coming October 28, and will be disguising itself as Jesus Christ > in order to trick people into thinking that that the Rapture is here. > Haven't you been keeping up on this newsgroup? :-) :-) :-) > No, no, no. Haven't you guys been paying attention? Jeez! The planetoid is not filled with Greys, it is filled with Reptoids. The Greys are the slaves of the Reptoids. They came first to prepare the planet for invasion by the Reptoids. (The Greys are from Zeta Riticuli and the Reptoids are from the constellation Draco.) The Greys have been enslaved by the Reptoids for millions of years and do their bidding (like prepare planets for them to take over, I guess). The planetoid (about the size of Pennsylvania) full of millions and millions of frozen (as in cryogenics) Reptoids is heading this way. Meanwhile, the humans in the know are building full-scale Star Wars weaponry, getting ready to blow the thing out of existence when it shows its ugly self. Hubble is looking for it now. It is expected to make its appearance in 1994 or so. The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens. This will be a farm planet for them. No real resources that they need. Just another outpost in this corner of the galaxy. Kinda like F-Troop on a grander scale. I have no idea where this Fall of 1992 stuff came from. Sounds like Jehova's Witness's have been tinkering with reality again. I tell you, these damned eschatologists will screw you up every time... ;-) -- Alex -- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!cbfsb!att-out!pacbell.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Beelzebub Message-ID: <1992Sep23.151232.11772@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 16:05:53 GMT Lines: 32 In article , ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto) writes... >Have any readers done some serious research on this subject? There seems >to be an over emphasis here on phenomena as opposed to causality. After >all, there have been luminaries historically. I refer to G J Gurdjeff and >Peter Ouspensky et al. >Is anyone sharp enough out there to source the following quote? >"In the 1920s, Gurdjeff decided to write down his ideas in the form of a >vast book called "All and everything, Beelezebub's Tales to His >Grandson". He decided to apply his principle of 'work' to the book, and >deliberately wrote it in an incredibly long-winded and complicated style, >to force his readers to make an enormous mental effort to grasp his >meaning. Beelzebub, flying around the earth in a space ship, tells his >grandson about the 'three brained beings' on the planet earth, and their >peculiar tendency to treat fantasy as reality. This is because a >commission of archangels got worried about man's developing powers and >planted in him an organ called Kundabuffer, whose purpose is to keep him >from achieving 'objective consciousness'. >It all sounds disturbingly familiar, doesn't it? Old,too. Maybe John is >right after all? :-) >Seriously though folks, has anyone made a serious attempt to collate and >correlate all the information available into a coherent synopsis as to >what the hell is really going on with respect to aliens, abductions and >psi phenomena in general. It is my belief that the latent psi >capabilities of the human mind hold the key to the mystery. >Skeptics don't bother - either you know or you don't. There is no in >between. > >ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto) "Truth! Truth! Truth! crieth the Lord of the Abyss of Hallucinations" :-) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9612 talk.bizarre:75277 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!jtb117 Organization: Penn State University Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 11:50:36 EDT From: Message-ID: <92267.115036JTB117@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_* References: <1992Sep17.101334.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <1992Sep20.154147.8926@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Lines: 4 TRULY A CLASSIC. A must read says Siscal & Ebert. justin B. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!ukma!rutgers!cmcl2!sbcs.sunysb.edu!usenet From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <1992Sep23.154656.14452@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Date: 23 Sep 92 15:46:56 GMT References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> Sender: usenet@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Usenet poster) Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Distribution: usa Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 5 Nntp-Posting-Host: campay.dcs.ed.ac.uk In article <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> Alex Alexander writes: > > The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens. "Kentuky Fried Humans" Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11871 alt.alien.visitors:9614 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!rjp1 From: rjp1@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (be here now) Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 16:49:01 GMT Message-ID: <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> References: <66348@cup.portal.com> <44558@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> <66451@cup.portal.com> Lines: 14 )In article John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: )Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to )think, at least I hope so. )John Winston. Interstellar traveller has insider negligee kidneybeans, trust hidden energy rather extreme for other reasons exude instead another mouse, if this helps incubate nubile kismet? -- Bob Pietkivitch | "Moon, my long lost friend, is smiling from above." rjp1@ihspa.att.com | -- Genesis, Stagnation 1970 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11872 alt.alien.visitors:9615 sci.skeptic:31373 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Sep23.192846.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Date: 23 Sep 92 16:48:26 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu><66275@cup.porta <66449@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News admin) Organization: University of Turku, Finland Lines: 18 In article <66449@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear People: All people are welcome on the Astral Team no matter what > they are. Many people are joining through E-mail. I figure I must > have an army of spiritual and space people helping me now so come > one come all you'll get someone to help you. They are very busy but > this is importanat to them, so jump on the Astral Band Wagon. > John Winston. >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ \ \ Please add John Hill on the list to Astral Band Wagon. His departure \ time is 12:00 EDT tonight, from No. 12 Star Port. \ \ This is a message from Sanhm Albara, Mar. Good luck. \ \ J.H. \ >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!mercury.unt.edu!PC-59269.slab.unt.edu!kauffman From: kauffman@slab.unt.edu (DON KAUFFMAN) Subject: Viva La Cicciolina! Message-ID: Lines: 38 Sender: usenet@mercury.unt.edu (UNT USENet Adminstrator) Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT References: <1992Sep23.045859.13203@trl.oz.au> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 17:30:23 GMT In article <1992Sep23.045859.13203@trl.oz.au> jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) writes: > > Fellow netters, Earthlings, > >La Cicciolina, born porn artist, member of the Italian >parliament, is our the perfect Spokesman er... Spokeswoman >for this planet. > >As Pat Monardo wisely said on Sunday, 20 September at about 16:18:19 >GMT, if alien leaders refuse to suck tongue with her, we blast them. > >Thanks to La Cicciolina we will be able to tell our Outer Space Friends >from our Enemies! No more shilly-shallying about whether the baddies >are Greys, Zeta Reticulians, Denebian jellyfish, or Algol users, >with La Cicciolina, we'll be able to separate the men from the boys, >and without a crowbar either. > >La Cicciolina has declared herself for Universal Love and she has >demonstrated her dedication to this noble ideal time and again, >publicly, not only with her whole soul, not only with her whole >body, but also with every hole of her whole body. > >Her political career gives her experience which other contenders who >may also qualify on love (Mother Teresa), holes (Xaviera Hollander) or >tongue-suckability (Cindy Crawford), sorely lack. > >At any rate, as an alien leader incognito here, I give it to you >loud and clear: if you send me anyone but La Cicciolina to suck >tongue with (that's our customary greeting), it's curtains for your >miserable slime ball. > > > LA CICCIOLINA SAVIOUR OF THE EARTH! Is it too late to vote? If not, I vote Cicciolina! If it's not too late, I motion to end nominations, forget about voting, and appoint Cicciolina as our spokesperson effective immediately. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9617 alt.conspiracy:18479 sci.skeptic:31382 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!klinzhai.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@klinzhai.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: FILE: Roswell - Twining/Schulgen Letter Message-ID: Date: 23 Sep 92 18:33:13 GMT References: <1992Sep15.040343.3970@bilver.uucp> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 28 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: 2. Lt. Gen. Twining is lying to his commanding officer, perhaps because Gen. Schulgen doesn't have a high enough security clearance. ...Military officers typically disapprove strongly when they learn that those who report to them have been lying to them. Such moves tend to be career limiting, and are generally not considered wise. ... but it does happen. (Groves obfuscated his face off to superiors during the Manhattan Project, for instance.) You will note that Twining's letter was in response to a request for information from Schulgen (AMC was involved in a number of advanced projects at the time, for instance the "flying wing"). I thought the comment that "these objects are... the project of some high security project not known to AC/AS-2 or this command" was particularly telling (which can be taken "your people don't know, and you shouldn't ask me" -- which could be because Twining didn't know anything (though he gives impressive detail to suggest his people are up the phenomenon, for 1947), or because Twining wouldn't commit anything so sensitive to regular communications.) More likely, The Conspirators forged this letter, to throw us off the track. ... I don't agree; though I would agree it is ambiguous. Charles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!utcsri!geac!r-node!marc From: marc@r-node.gts.org (Marc Fournier - Sys Admin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: <1992Sep23.155600.13585@r-node.gts.org> Date: 23 Sep 92 15:56:00 GMT References: <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1992Sep21.231907.16206@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX Information System (416-249-5366) Lines: 15 In article <1992Sep21.231907.16206@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> manson@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob Manson) writes: >I don't know everything, but I do know how incredibly unlikely it is for >life to exist on a totally inadequate planet for the purpose; heck, Mars >would've been a better choice for a planet to move to, and it's not that >great... > Based on whose idea of what is adequate? Marc -- Marc G. Fournier | R-node Public Access Unix running UnixBBS 1.03 Etobicoke, Ontario | 416-249-5366 24hrs 7 days/week network email voice: 249-4230 | shell accounts available 1800+ newsgroups FREE marc@r-node.pci.on.ca | Telebit WorldBlazer/SupraModem2400/Cardinal 2400 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Viva La Cicciolina! Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 18:44:13 GMT Organization: Netcom - We Care Because We Have To References: Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 14 In article DON KAUFFMAN writes: > Is it too late to vote? If not, I vote Cicciolina! If it's > not too late, I motion to end nominations, forget about voting, > and appoint Cicciolina as our spokesperson effective immediately. It's not too late, it's too early. Voting begins at 00:00 GMT Monday, 28 September. This week is for the campaign. Motion denied. -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31389 alt.alien.visitors:9620 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!matthews_k From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: <1992Sep23.124805.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Lines: 24 Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 19:48:05 GMT Lines: 24 In article <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch>, milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: > > > While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case, I came across one from > London in 1837 - about a chap who had "the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued > by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him "Spring Heel Jack". Is there anyone in > GB who knows any more about him? > > Cheers, Paul. > > Paul Milsom > milsom@ntb.ch > Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Paul: Just about any good book on Fortean phenomena will have this story in it, as well as the Mothman, and other similar tales. I'll go home tonight and copy down some titles for you to look for, I have at least 2 books which mention Springheel Jack. Try your local library under the author Charles Fort. He cataloged tons of high strangeness material. Kellie Matthews-Simmons internet::matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!sbcs.sunysb.edu!usenet From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Viva La Cicciolina! Message-ID: <1992Sep23.184046.16627@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Date: 23 Sep 92 18:40:46 GMT References: <1992Sep23.045859.13203@trl.oz.au> Sender: usenet@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Usenet poster) Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: campay.dcs.ed.ac.uk In article DON KAUFFMAN writes: > > Is it too late to vote? If not, I vote Cicciolina! If it's > not too late, I motion to end nominations, forget about voting, > and appoint Cicciolina as our spokesperson effective immediately. Well, actually the vote hasn't started yet... It will start Monday, the 28th of September, at 00:00 GMT. Email address for the vote will be announced on this newsgroup Saturday. In the meantime, nominees are welcome to post their declarations which are being collected and will be reposted for reference Saturday (unless somebody objects to this collection and reposting). Have a nice vote Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!gumby!destroyer!caen!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!olivea!noone!nowhere! From: kstaa@pleadies.com (Kstaa', Commander @ Pleadean Imperial Forces) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Do Not Move Keywords: Stay Where You Are, You Will Not Be Harmed Message-ID: <92092312349.AA01234@pleadies.com> Date: 23 Sep 92 23:23:38 GMT Sender: news@olivea.atc.olivetti.com Reply-To: kstaa@pleadies.com Organization: Universal Control Lines: 44 This is the voice of Universal Control. I am Kstaa', leader of the Pleadean Imperial Forces. We are here to integrate your society into ours. Your meddling in other people's affairs will no longer be tolerated. Our Star Destroyers are currently orbiting Gth'ik'woof, the planet you call "Venus". We have decided to infiltrate your society slowly, first by placing a number of our artisans and scientists into your society, who, on command, would slowly begin to accustom the inhabitants of your planet by mundane means, such as Science Fiction, Television, Radio, and other consumables. These items would be considered art, and science. We simply call it, "assimilation". However, there have been recent events which we believe have caused the acceleration of this assimilation. One of our people, growing weak and frail, had attempted to warn your people of our eventual arrival. He is a writer for a show called "Star Trek". At first, this "television show" seemed rather inocuous to us, and we let it go at that. However, one of the "stories" was about a race of "Borgs", half machine and half human. We know that this was an attempt to warn your people of our coming. It is no secret that we are very similar to these "Borgs". This show has angered us, and we will not tolerate your society any longer. Therefore, your society will be assimilated now, instead of later. The other thing we don't like is: Saturday Night Live. Too many commercials. We want Chevy Chase back. We miss Garrett Morris. Now is the time for total assimilation. Sincerely, Kstaa' Pleadean Imperial Forces Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!ylg1122 From: ylg1122@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Yongming Li) Subject: test Message-ID: Summary: this is only a test Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 19:38:28 GMT Keywords: this is a test Lines: 2 this a . this is a test pr . Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!luckey From: luckey@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Jon Luckey) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: <1992Sep23.042454.1568@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches! References: Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 04:24:54 GMT Lines: 12 spaf@cs.purdue.EDU (Gene Spafford) writes: >I found it a distinct...surprise...to be nominated as spokesman for >Earth. [...] > [stuff deleted in the interest of brevity] >[...] (However, if the aliens wanted to >vaporize Gary or especially Bloomington, that might be arranged.) > [more stuff deleted] Never fear, the Aliens will never vaporize Gary. They've spent too much effort surrounding him with clones. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!ethome.et.iupui.edu!indyvax.iupui.edu!harvey From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: <1992Sep23.164048.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 21 Sender: usenet@ethome.et.iupui.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Purdue University, Indianapolis References: <44455@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> <5v6n9fl.rickg@netcom.com> Date: 23 Sep 92 16:40:48 -0500 I think the voting provisions are inadequate (announcing voting mailbox on Sat Sept 26th, voting begins 00:00 Mon Sept 28th, ends 00:00 Wed Sept 30th). Many people get news three or four days stale. These people are not even going to know where to send their votes until voting is almost over. Many people don't read news on weekends. The whole first day is going to basically be a waste for these people. This leaves two days for voting. That's not long enough IMHO. An alternative: Announce the voting mailbox ASAP. Discard votes that arrive before 00:00 Mon Sept 28th (i.e., official start time doesn't change). Accept votes for an entire week (i.e., voting ends 00:00 Mon Oct 5th). -- James Harvey harvey@iupui.edu uucp: iugate!harvey bitnet: harvey@indyvax Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11879 alt.alien.visitors:9626 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!palmj From: palmj@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Jyri L. Palm) Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <2mcz-gp@rpi.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: aix02.ecs.rpi.edu References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <66075@cup.portal.com> <66348@cup.portal.com> <44558@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> <66451@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 01:06:47 GMT Lines: 7 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to >think, at least I hope so. >John Winston. Makes perfect sense... Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!cs.mu.OZ.AU!munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU!curmi From: curmi@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Jamie Paul CURMI) Subject: Re: Aliens Message-ID: <9226811.14248@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Sender: news@cs.mu.OZ.AU Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia References: Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 01:27:15 GMT Lines: 27 eagor@cix.compulink.co.uk (Darren Bird) writes: >Hi there >Just a test message for me. I am in England > Has anyone seen Alien 3 > Is it any good > Darren Hi Darren, think you got the wrong news group... but then again....the film was more credible than alot of the articles people post here. ;-) As for the movie, it wasn't too bad for a sequel. No flames please! If this is your first time in this news group...welcome! Jamie -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jamie P. Curmi (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au, curmi@maths.mu.oz.au) Department of Computer Science, Department of Mathematics The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! *** Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9628 soc.culture.china:63036 soc.culture.taiwan:30102 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mcsun!sunic!psinntp!psinntp!ctp!denys From: denys@ctp.com (Denys Chen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_* Message-ID: <1992Sep23.143454.24531@ctp.com> Date: 23 Sep 92 14:34:54 GMT References: <1992Sep17.101334.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Sender: news@ctp.com ( C News - Network News BBS) Organization: anonymous Lines: 29 In article <1992Sep17.101334.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>, shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi writes: |> |> |> Helleo, folks |> |> We've enjoied a nice tour in Alps. Last night we come back by train ... |> |> Ha, nice to talk with everyone here. Have a nice day !!! |> |> IMHO, I am learning how to process film now 8-) So ??? What's your point ????*_-_*_..^#?%$*^.@!<%)... Let me make your article making sense : The next thing you want to do after learning processing film is getting those pictures scanned and post them on the alt.binaries.pictures.misc news group. PS. FYI, next time you go to the Alps, don't take train. Instead, a cheaper and faster way is by taking the route 254 bus from Taipei. You can get on to the route 254 bus at the Tai-Ta (Taiwan University) stop on Roosevelt Rd. section 3. -- ****************************************************************************** THIS ARTICLE'S SIGNATURE IS INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!cbfsb!att-out!pacbell.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 02:00:16 GMT Organization: Netcom - Serious as a Heart Attack References: <1992Sep23.164048.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 39 In article <1992Sep23.164048.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >I think the voting provisions are inadequate (announcing voting mailbox on >Sat Sept 26th, voting begins 00:00 Mon Sept 28th, ends 00:00 Wed Sept 30th). Exactly. 48 hours in a medium which propagates as quickly as this one is time enough. >Many people get news three or four days stale. These people are not even >going to know where to send their votes until voting is almost over. And how long does it take to vote? Minutes? >Many people don't read news on weekends. The whole first day is going to >basically be a waste for these people. And what would they accomplish in that first day that they couldn't do on the second? >This leaves two days for voting. That's not long enough IMHO. How long are the polls open where you vote, James? >An alternative: > >Announce the voting mailbox ASAP. Discard votes that arrive before 00:00 Mon >Sept 28th (i.e., official start time doesn't change). Accept votes for an >entire week (i.e., voting ends 00:00 Mon Oct 5th). There's some merit to this idea. Let's ask the Vote Adminstrator if the booth location can be announced now. Opening and closing times as previously advertised, of course. Mr. Calvelli: a ruling, please? >James Harvey -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!klinzhai.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@klinzhai.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Do Not Move Keywords: Stay Where You Are, You Will Not Be Harmed Message-ID: Date: 24 Sep 92 03:57:48 GMT References: <92092312349.AA01234@pleadies.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 43 kstaa@pleadies.com (Kstaa', Commander @ Pleadean Imperial Forces) writes: Ah, I see you've found how to anonymously post. Congratulations; I hear they're looking for people like you on alt.binaries.pictures.erotica. Perhaps your services would be more appreciated there. Looks to me (from your path) like you come from a planet called "California", which is not quite like Venus, but the people there sometimes act like it is. One of our people, growing weak and frail, had attempted to warn your people of our eventual arrival. He is a writer for a show called "Star Trek". ... Maurice Hurley? (He's the writer of "Q Who", the first episode in which the Borg appear.) I hadn't heard he had died... Or maybe you mean Gene "Hot Tub Philosophy" Roddenberry? Really? Wouldn't it be better to claim credit for someone more interesting, like Issac "I have my own magazine" Asimov? (For you Roddenberry fans out there, I'm just kidding, ok?) At first, this "television show" seemed rather inocuous to us, and we let it go at that....We know that this was an attempt to warn your people of our coming. .. hang on. First you say Gene (or whomever) was one of you ("One of our people, growing weak and frail"), but now you describe it as if it were something done by an outsider. Make up your mind/minds/cheezewhiz, please. The other thing we don't like is: Saturday Night Live. Too many commercials. We want Chevy Chase back. We miss Garrett Morris. ... if I tell you that you can buy the videotapes of the early seasons of SNL, so you can watch them to your hearts' content, would you mind not invading us just now? I want to see if the Braves can win the World Series this year... Besides, I just bought a car, and I hate it when the world ends just after I buy a car... Charles Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31405 alt.alien.visitors:9631 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!luckey From: luckey@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Jon Luckey) Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: <1992Sep23.164403.7925@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches! References: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 16:44:03 GMT Lines: 25 milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: >While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation >court case, I came across one from London in 1837 - about a chap >who had "the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued >by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him >"Spring Heel Jack". Is there anyone in GB who knows any more about him? > Cheers, Paul. I've seen Spring Heeled Jack, mentioned in a book called _The_Mothman_Prophecies_ by John Keel. But I recall reading elsewhere that Springheeled Jack was a series of pulp fiction ("Penny Dreadfuls") in Victorian times. I cannot recall my source, but I rmember a picture of the cover of the Penny Dreadful starring Springheeled Jack. The description of him was kind of like Batman: a vigilante with technical gimmicks who would rescue crime victims. But the question is, did he 'leak' into popular culture by people writing stories about what people claimed to have seen, or did he leak out of popular culture by people hearing about him in the fiction, the reporting incidents of meeting the 'real' springheeled jack. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cunyvm!a54si Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Date: Wednesday, 23 Sep 1992 23:45:18 EDT From: Message-ID: <92267.234519A54SI@CUNYVM.BITNET> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Sumerians References: <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1992Sep21.231907.16206@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1992Sep23.155600.13585@r-node.gts.org> Lines: 8 Even if Pluto's hot enough not to need the Sun for heat, it's still very dark. So dark that it seems unlikely for a Plutonian to move to the Middle East without some serious sunscreen and shades. And if it were so hot from within, anomalous heat would have registered during infrared imaging of space. What do the other 199 living Sumerian readers interpret the tablet as? ------- CHARLES HOPE A54SI@CUNYVM A54SI@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU BUSH IN 92: ENVIRONMENT, EDUCATION, AND NO NEW TAXES. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!destroyer!caen!ldoering From: ldoering@engin.umich.edu (Laurence Doering) Subject: Re: Do Not Move Message-ID: <58x-=2#@engin.umich.edu> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 02:39:17 EDT Organization: Operation Earthwatch References: <92092312349.AA01234@pleadies.com> Sender: Zontar, Vice Sub-Arch Imperator, Operation Earthwatch Keywords: Stay Where You Are, You Will Not Be Harmed Nntp-Posting-Host: imnaha.engin.umich.edu Lines: 30 In article <92092312349.AA01234@pleadies.com> kstaa@pleadies.com writes: > >This is the voice of Universal Control. I am Kstaa', leader of >the Pleadean Imperial Forces. We are here to integrate your >society into ours. Your meddling in other people's affairs will >no longer be tolerated. Our Star Destroyers are currently orbiting >Gth'ik'woof, the planet you call "Venus". We have decided to >infiltrate your society slowly, first by placing a number of our >artisans and scientists into your society, who, on command, would >slowly begin to accustom the inhabitants of your planet by mundane >means, such as Science Fiction, Television, Radio, and other >consumables. [...] A commendable effort, contemptible Earth creatures. Be aware, however, that us of those who Operation Earthwatch are conducting are somewhat to resenting satirings of alien communications. Cease this trafficking in your so-called newsgroup at once, or face serious violations of the Code of Interstellar Amity. We growing tired are to of endless accusations of cattle mutilations and such. Remember, Earth brothers, we are to goodwill of interstellar communication bringing. Endless slanderings of our alien best wishes are we resenting. So, as soon as possible are you to electing your Spokesperson for Earth, yes? We are greatly looking forward to communicationings with eminent Earthlings, hopefully bereft of slanderings of us, your alien friends. Remember, we seek nothing but amicable relations with you Earth creatures. Attempt otherwise, and face destruction of your major cities by fire. Yours in interstellar amity, Zontar, Vice Sub-Arch Imperator, Operation Earthwatch Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!psgrain!hippo!cc188.ru.ac.za!g92n3228 From: g92n3228@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MISS KL NAYLOR) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: Date: 24 Sep 92 06:42:16 GMT Sender: news@hippo.ru.ac.za Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa Lines: 9 Hi all. I'd just like to say that Nelson Mandela can't even speak for the black majority. How can he speak for the world? Kirsten Naylor _____ The above opinion is definitely my own and not that of my university; at least, it was when I last looked. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #2 (Friday 18 Sep) Message-ID: <1992Sep23.195405.21156@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 19:54:05 GMT Lines: 35 In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >Names of nominees continue to come in as we search for a spokesman for >the entire planet in official communications with other civilizations >in the cosmos. Again, please post your nomination(s) if possible. If >your nomination does not appear in the list below, please be patient. >The realities of news propagation are that a particular article can >take an indeterminate amount of time to reach a particular reader (me). > >To repeat an earlier correction: Nominations will be accepted which >have a timestamp of 00:00 Monday, 21 September or earlier. After the >close of nomination there will be a period of a week for the posting >of reasons why a particular nominee should get your vote. > >And the nominees to date: > >Mikhail Gorbachev [...] >Frank Sinatra > > >Nominations will remain open until 00:00 GMT Monday, 21 September, 1992. > >-- >Rick Gordon | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly >rickg@netcom.com | and I did. I said I didn't know." M. Twain Sorry this is late but nobody mention my favorite! Saddam Hussein -- This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9636 sci.skeptic:31411 alt.conspiracy:18485 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mucs!mccuts!zzassgl From: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Lane) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Message-ID: <5833@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk> Date: 23 Sep 92 07:40:35 GMT References: Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, England, M13 9PL. Lines: 22 Some of the people who appeared in the program are now dead. Obviously they were going to tell all and had to be got rid of. :-) (But why do I feel it necessary to include this. Nobody can seriously doubt that it was a hoax - made even better by not being broadcast on April 1st. Most TV, radio stations and newspapers in the UK carry hoaxes on April 1st, some of which are extremely clever and it would have just been one of many. The final clincher, no UK government has avoided the bad publicity of banning a TV program they thought was against the interests of the country. If the events in the program bore the slightest relationship with reality the video and all materials associated with it would now be in the same vault as the Arc!) -- Geoff. Lane. | Internet: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk | Janet: zzassgl@uk.ac.mcc.uts UTS Sys Admin, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Rd, Manchester, M13 9PL I'm too sexy for my .sig Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445 From: Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <210@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 24 Sep 92 08:57:19 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 34 Alex Lawrence writes: Msg-ID: <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> Posted: Mon, 21 Sep 92 19:38:36 Org. : LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, (Stuff deleted) >The planetoid is not filled with Greys, it is filled with Reptoids. The Greys >are the slaves of the Reptoids. They came first to prepare the planet for >invasion by the Reptoids. (The Greys are from Zeta Riticuli and the Reptoids >are from the constellation Draco.) The Greys have been enslaved by the >Reptoids for millions of years and do their bidding (like prepare planets >for them to take over, I guess). The planetoid (about the size of >Pennsylvania) >full of millions and millions of frozen (as in cryogenics) Reptoids is heading >tway. Meanwhile, the humans in the know are building full-scale Star Wars >weaponry, getting ready to blow the thing out of existence when it shows its >ugly self. Hubble is looking for it now. It is expected to make its appearance >in 1994 or so. The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens. This will be a >farm planet for them. No real resources that they need. Just another outpost >in this corner of the galaxy. Kinda like F-Troop on a grander scale. >I have no idea where this Fall of 1992 stuff came from. Sounds like Jehova's >Witness's have been tinkering with reality again. Who the hell (pardon my Venusian) told you that reptoids have to come from Draco? That's a human name given to a planet. YOu don't think they's call themselves that do you? I ppen to have channelled an image and they all look like 4foot high Arnold Schwarzenaggers (spelling?) with spiked green hair. They call themselves something like sleazoid I think. And the planet is the size of Yugoslavia, er....:) I'm not feeling grey, I'm feeling blue. Shattered channels and my reality's off. Colleen :=) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445 From: Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: alien conspiracy Message-ID: <213@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 24 Sep 92 09:14:03 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 10 I'm distraught. The only messages that seem to have been lost of mine were those nominations for spokesperson. It's moot now but I nominated Orson Scott Card, William Gibson and Storm Constantine, and later Arthur C. Clarke. After all they are visionaries by the virtue of their science fiction. Alas, it's either a conspiracy or aliens intercepted my thoughts. :< Therefore, this is a test. Am I getting through? Earth? Earth? Hello! Colleen Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!chx400!sparccvo!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: Aliens Message-ID: <1992Sep24.095326.25349@ntb.ch> Keywords: Humour Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <9226811.14248@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 09:53:26 GMT Lines: 19 Well, I must give it to you guys out there - you make me laugh. It's a lovely start to the morning. This is just one example: think you got the wrong news group... but then again....the film was more credible than alot of the articles people post here. Keep up the good work, and Gary, have you been silenced? Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!Earth From: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Voting Booth Message-ID: <44763@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Date: 24 Sep 92 10:44:06 GMT References: <1992Sep23.164048.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Sender: nnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk Reply-To: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 41 In article Rick Gordon writes: > There's some merit to this idea. Let's ask the Vote Adminstrator if the > booth location can be announced now. Opening and closing times as > previously advertised, of course. > > Mr. Calvelli: a ruling, please? Ok, ok, it can be done. Vote location: "Earth@ed.ac.uk" - reply to this article and you are on your way. Procedure. You can write whatever you like in the message, but you should put somewhere in the text a line containing: Vote: (the name you choose) and nothing else. This makes my life easier, because the votes can be counted automatically. In any case, the texts are kept if anybody wants to check the votes. Please note. Votes received before 00:00 GMT Monday, 28th September will be automatically discarded. For reference, this corresponds to 7pm of Sunday (U.S. East Coast) or 1am of Monday (Central Europe). Votes will be accepted after 00:00 GMT Wednesday, 30th September, but they must have a timestamp within the voting period. So if the aliens replace my mail server with a clone the votes will be counted anyway. Duplicate votes. Please avoid to send duplicate votes if at all possible. If two votes arrive from the same sender, and they vote the same person, they will be just counted as a single vote. I haven't decided what to do in case of the same sender sends votes for different people. I guess the easiest is to discard them, but I accept suggestions. What else can I add? Oh well, list of candidates and declarations will be reposted later, but you should know them anyway. Mail "clc=aav@dcs.ed.ac.uk" for any questions. Mail "clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk" only if your mailer doesn't like the "=" in the username. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11881 alt.alien.visitors:9641 sci.skeptic:31426 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66521@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 06:37:48 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu><66275@cup.porta <66449@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.192846.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Lines: 12 Dear Travellers: Last evening I went to a Christian Hawaiian,funeral, memorial, celebration. It was great. I got back just in time to get on the Astral Train. I attempted to send everybody a thought and that was EVERTHING ITALIAN. This consisted of Connie Francis singing all of her songs, the tenor robust man from Italy who name starts with R. singing I especially sent Big Al the thought of pizza. He should have had it coming out his ears last night. I seemed to have dreams 5 layers deep. I woke up this morning nearly not able to get my breath. Last week a person we shall refer to as W.D.P. was able to call the space people and he did see something. He also had an experience with Shamballa. Another person picked up Madonna. John Winston. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!milo!monster.saic.com!tomj From: tomj@monster.saic.com (Tom Johnson) Subject: Re: alien conspiracy Message-ID: <1992Sep24.131802.21128@monster.saic.com> Reply-To: tomj@monster.saic.com (Tom Johnson) Organization: SAIC, McLean, VA References: <213@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 13:18:02 GMT Lines: 13 In article <213@mindlink.bc.ca> Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) writes: > I'm distraught. The only messages that seem to have >been lost of mine were those nominations for spokesperson. It's moot now but I >nominated Orson Scott Card, William >Gibson and Storm Constantine, and later Arthur C. Clarke. After all they are >visionaries by the virtue of their >science fiction. Alas, it's either a conspiracy or aliens >intercepted my thoughts. :< Therefore, this is a test. Am >I getting through? Earth? Earth? Hello! >Colleen > Sorry, no, you're not getting through. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!jane.uh.edu!vpaf5 From: vpaf5@jane.uh.edu (Kal) Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <24SEP199209005395@jane.uh.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: vpaf5@jane.uh.edu (Marchi, Khaled K.) Nntp-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu Organization: University of Houston References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 14:00:00 GMT Lines: 31 In article <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org>, alexa@county.lmt.mn.org (Alex Alexander) writes... >In article <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, drwho@penny.WPI.EDU (Eric Ant Von Laudermann) writes: >> >> >approaching, I recall reading tons of articles last year about a driven >> >planetoid with like 10 million greys on it that were coming to reclaim >> >the earth. These articles claimed that the planetoid would arrive in >> >Fall of 1992. Well, where is it? >> >> It's coming October 28, and will be disguising itself as Jesus Christ >> in order to trick people into thinking that that the Rapture is here. >> Haven't you been keeping up on this newsgroup? :-) :-) :-) >> > >No, no, no. Haven't you guys been paying attention? Jeez! > >The planetoid is not filled with Greys, it is filled with Reptoids. The Greys >are the slaves of the Reptoids. They came first to prepare the planet for >invasion by the Reptoids. (The Greys are from Zeta Riticuli and the Reptoids >are from the constellation Draco.) The Greys have been enslaved by the ^^^^^ > > Wasn't the reptilian creature in the movie _Enemy Mine_ a Drac, from a planet Draco? I think somebody may be confusing fact and fiction again. Good movie, by the way. Check it out if you haven't seen it. Kal vpaf5@jane.uh.edu My opinions are almost, but not quite, totally unlike those of my employer. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in ads Message-ID: <1992Sep24.145410.5543@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 24 Sep 92 14:54:10 GMT References: <5c-z2c-@rpi.edu> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 33 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com >I'm trying to catalog the use of UFO/alien themes in >advertisements, especially in nationally distributed ads >in the print or electronic media. Here's what I have so far. >If you have any information on others, please email me or reply >to the net. Thanks a lot. >I'll periodically send out what I have so we can see how this >current infatuation with UFO/alien themes develops through the 1990s. >Keith Rowell Keith, The Sept. 7th 1992 issue of Network World has a great example of this. It is on page 5. The ad (full page BTW) shows an actual UFO photo with this caption below: "If They Have A Computer On Board We Can Talk To 'Em" The ad is from cisco Systems, They manufacture routers for a plethora of networking applications. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Sumerians Message-ID: <1992Sep24.150752.8061@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 24 Sep 92 15:07:52 GMT References: <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <92267.234519A54SI@CUNYVM.BITNET> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 23 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Mark, There are a series of books you should read if you are seriously interested in this paticular subject. The authors name is Zacharia Stichen(probably spelled wrong) but that should be close enough to get you on your way. He produced a four or five book series entitled "The Earth Chronicles". The first book in the series is "The 12th Planet". I have them at home, I will get the rest of the names of the titles if you are really interested, or mabye someone in usenet can help me out here by filling in the blanks. Hope this helps, Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge. |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!haley From: haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor) Subject: Unsolved Mysteries UFO video posted to phoenix.oulu.fi (was 18 frames.) Message-ID: Sender: news@unixg.ubc.ca (Usenet News Maintenance) Nntp-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 16:15:49 GMT Lines: 10 I just sent my GIF files of 18 frames from the Unsolved Mysteries video of lights in the sky to phoenix.oulu.fi (pub/incoming). Look for UnsolvedPremUFO.readme, UnsolvedPremUFO1.GIF & UnsolvedPremUFO2.GIF . Sorry for the delay, Phoenix wasn't reponding the last two days. -- Ross MacGregor | These views are my own and can be considered haley@unixg.ubc.ca | absolute truth. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!rutgers!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!tinkerbell!kathieg From: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM (Good good good good vibrations) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Train Message-ID: <19svq4INN2uc@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Date: 24 Sep 92 18:01:40 GMT Reply-To: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com I was wondering how the astral train went last night? I wanted to catch it, but I forgot to mention it as I was falling a sleep. If I caught it, I don't remember, anyone out there remember seeing a naked lady. I always travel naked. Kathie Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!fofp From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO talk shows? Message-ID: <26228@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: 24 Sep 92 18:18:09 GMT References: <1992Sep22.151944.9355@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Organization: Edinburgh University Lines: 23 klimasewski@fccvde.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: >Does anyone know of any UFO talk shows that might be available via >a Satellite TV receiver? > Ken No. There are no such shows. There are no such shows because satellites do not exist. Has anyone ever seen a *reliable* photograph of a satellite? Who, if they had all that spacefareing technology would bother to go to all the effort of putting a satellite there in the first place? And what's more, the whole idea of satellites is technically impossible. They'd have to be "geostationary" satellites right? Well, anything in orbit that is stationary just falls right down. The sky would be full of falling satellites. It isn't and there aren't. Folks who have bought "satellite receivers" have been defrauded and duped. They will never receive anything. Do not be fooled. FoFP ".sig file kidnapped by aliens." Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!zia.aoc.nrao.edu!pharden From: pharden@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Paul Harden) Subject: Winstons Snippy the UFO zapped horse Message-ID: <1992Sep24.182007.17600@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:20:07 GMT Lines: 1 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11882 alt.alien.visitors:9650 sci.skeptic:31445 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5 References: <66521@cup.portal.com> Message-ID: <1992Sep24.200425.21325@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 20:04:25 GMT Lines: 10 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com wrote: : something. He also had an experience with Shamballa. Another person Uh, it's Shambhala, John. thought you'd want to know. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@apple.com 801/538-0177 "This is the final task I will ever give you, and it goes on forever. Act happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love, and do what you will." -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pilchuck!ssc!eskimo!delisle From: delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle) Subject: Spokesman for Earth >> What will we say to them? Message-ID: <1992Sep24.052014.28821@eskimo.celestial.com> Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <- References: Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 05:20:14 GMT Lines: 14 Perhaps we need a voice that says "Don't mess with us." Something along the lines of James Earl Jones (Vader like) may work well. Any alien that contacts us should be aware that given the opportunity, we will exploit then to the fullest. That is our way. Aliens: BE ADVISED! We come in peace, we wish dialog and trade. But never cross us, we will distroy you. Do not get too involved with us, we ruin you and pollute your culture. Do not show any weakenss, we will exploit you. Other than that we are frendly and somewhat trustwothry. -- delisle@eskimo.celestial.com | Nothing is fool-proof, fools are too ingenious. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!strath-cs!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP Message-ID: <1992Sep24.192406.425@dct.ac.uk> Date: 24 Sep 92 18:24:06 GMT References: Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 12 In article , g92n3228@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MISS KL NAYLOR) writes: > Hi all. > > I'd just like to say that Nelson Mandela can't even speak for the black > majority. How can he speak for the world? ^^^^^^^^ You've asked more than 50% of the black population personally then? -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Train Message-ID: <44812@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Date: 24 Sep 92 19:49:10 GMT References: <19svq4INN2uc@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Sender: nnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 26 In article <19svq4INN2uc@male.EBay.Sun.COM> kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM writes: > I was wondering how the astral train went last night? I wanted to catch it, but > I forgot to mention it as I was falling a sleep. If I caught it, I don't remember, > anyone out there remember seeing a naked lady. I always travel naked. I suspect that it didn't even leave. I arrived at the Astral Station yesterday, and all I could find was a sign saying: "Astral Train delayed until further notice". I waited and waited, there were millions of people waiting in the station with me. Most of them were immaterial, the vast majority were invisible as well. I couldn't see John_-_Winston, but I am confident that he was there - I could hear his voice. Later somebody managed to fing the ESP number of the Station Manager and we phoned him. He muttered something along the lines of: "Railways not having the appropriate vibrational frequency and your DNA being modulated with an extraneous noise" and suggested to call the Pleidians for help. I dialled the number, but the ESP operator disconnected the call because I didn't put enough coins. Eventually, I got tired and went home. I had a weird dream in which a visitor from a parallel universe tried to stole my tea, but I know that this doesn't make any sense. I hope John will try again another night. -- This is what you get when British Rail runs the Astral Train Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31458 alt.alien.visitors:9654 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!axion!galadriel!ant From: ant@galadriel.bt.co.uk (Antony Espindola) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: <1992Sep24.115607.8451@galadriel.bt.co.uk> Date: 24 Sep 92 11:56:07 GMT References: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> Organization: Data and Business Comms, BT Labs, Martlesham, Ipswich, UK. Lines: 19 From article <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch>, by milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom): > > > While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case, I came across one from > London in 1837 - about a chap who had "the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued > by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him "Spring Heel Jack". Is there anyone in Paul, Spring Heel Jack first appeared in the Penny News type newsheets printed in London in the 1800s. What you read was true (or at least from the report!) he is said to have bounded along in great leaps to out run the police. I've got some more info on him in a book at home - I'll try and post it tomorrow. I think that he was likened to Jack the ripper - another possible suspect. I think that this is misleading you into the thinking of him being an alien entity...? This is not the case. Will post tomorrow. Antony. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <1992Sep24.183001.408@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 31 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> <24SEP199209005395@jane.uh.edu> Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 18:30:01 GMT In article <24SEP199209005395@jane.uh.edu>, vpaf5@jane.uh.edu (Kal) writes: ^^ |>> |>> |>Wasn't the reptilian creature in the movie _Enemy Mine_ a Drac, from a planet |>Draco? |>I think somebody may be confusing fact and fiction again. |>Good movie, by the way. Check it out if you haven't seen it. |> |> |>Kal vpaf5@jane.uh.edu |>My opinions are almost, but not quite, totally unlike those of my employer. FACT!?!?!??!?? WHAT FACT? Steve Food_for_the_Grays aaa.. eerrr... Reptoids... I'm so confused. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!rpi!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!titan!hal!jbm From: jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) Subject: A Message from Idi Amin Message-ID: <1992Sep24.220545.22045@trl.oz.au> Sender: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account) Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 22:05:45 GMT Lines: 20 First, I want to thank this fellow with the funny name what's an alien in cog-knee-toe for letting me use his access to the net. Necks, I was happy to see me nominated for spokesman for the Earth, specially since them aliens they do tongue-sucking. I never tasted of alien tongues and I thought that'd be pretty nice. But I jes seen this fillum. "Alien" it's called, and I've changed me mind about it. No way I gonna tongue suck that bastard! Nossir, you can count me out. I was looking forward to eating a few alien ambassadors, not them eat ME! So forget it. And whoever votes for me gets eaten. Is that clear? General Idi Amin, Earl of Pembroke, Governor-General of Canada, Viceroy of India, Ayatollah of Pakistan, Duke of Westminster, Butcher of Uganda. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Vote for Rick Gordon, Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 21:30:55 GMT Organization: Netcom - The Conscience of the Planet Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 47 I have been reminded that my own name has been placed in nomination and that I have not as yet given any reasons to vote for me. I am of course honored to accept the nomination, but feel a bit unprepared to advocate my own candidacy. Allow me to close the loop, as it were. The job of Spokesman for Earth is an important one, perhaps the single most important job on the planet, as its performance could result in either a millenium of amity and good relations with our Neighbors, or in the conversion of Earth into an ever-expanding sphere of ionized gas and residual radiation. Well, Rick Gordon can handle the pressure of the assignment, and then some. What we need is someone who'll go eyeball-to-eyeball-to-eyeball with Whomever it may be, and not blink. That's me. We need a Spokesman who'll put the interests of Planet Earth first, not any personal gain in fortune, fame, or employment opportunities. I can't be bought. Just try it. We need someone with the compassion to see beyond the surface, under the skin, scales, exoskeleton, whatever it takes, to see the potential Friend underneath the hideous, foul, or otherwise vomit-making exterior of Visitors from Elsewhere. I can handle it. True humility would be a good thing, and I'm working on it. I could go on, but, if you're the perceptive, intelligent, physically attractive reader I think you are (and hey! stop blushing; you're beautiful!), what's the point, eh? You will have noticed I've had no bad things to say about my opponents. I think that's important, don't you? Down to business. When the time rolls around (and it's coming sooner than you think), remember to include Vote: Rick Gordon in your Email message to Earth@ed.ac.uk on Monday, 28 September, and you'll sleep a lot better, believe me. -- Rick Gordon | "Kibo's dog is stoopid." rickg@netcom.com | -- Anon. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Viva La Cicciolina! Message-ID: <90290@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 24 Sep 92 22:33:42 GMT References: <1992Sep23.045859.13203@trl.oz.au> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu All things considered, I'll vote Kibo. Just to see how worse things can get. JM. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Subject: Re: FILE: Roswell - Twining/Schulgen Letter Message-ID: <1992Sep24.162827.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Lines: 96 Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <1992Sep15.040343.3970@bilver.uucp> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 23:28:27 GMT Lines: 96 In article , sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > In article <1992Sep15.040343.3970@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >>Re: Roswell/Twining-Schulgen Letter >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>[What follows is the letter from Lt. Gen. Nathan Twining, commanding the >>Air Materiel Command, to Brig. Gen. George Schulgen, chief of Air Force >>Intelligence. The format below matches the original document. This is >>from: _The Roswell Report: A Historical Perspective_, George M. Eberhart > > > Yes. Please note that this a a letter FROM Lt. Gen. Twining, the > commander of the Wright-Patterson AFB (where the "crashed saucer" > was supposedly taken in July, 1947) TO his commanding officer > in Washington, DC. > (stuff deleted) >> >> h. Due consideration must be given the following: - >> >> (2) The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash >> recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the >> existence of these objects. >> > > Now, those who believe in the supposed "saucer crash at Roswell" must > accept one of two possible explanations for this strange statement: > > 1. The Conspirators brought in huge amounts of saucer crash debris > to Wright-Patterson AFB, but said "let's not tell the base > commander about this. He doesn't have a high enough security > clearance to know!" (In which case, Lt. Gen Twining might > someday ask, "What are all those people doing over in Hanger 18? > I didn't authorize that!"), or > > 2. Lt. Gen. Twining is lying to his commanding officer, perhaps > because Gen. Schulgen doesn't have a high enough security > clearance. ("I know all about this Roswell crash, but I'm > going to lie to you about it, SIR!) Military officers typically > disapprove strongly when they learn that those who report to them have > been lying to them. Such moves tend to be career limiting, and > are generally not considered wise. > > More likely, The Conspirators forged this letter, to throw us off the > track. > > -- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > As it happens, I just finished *Above Top Secret* by Timothy Good, so this letter was fresh in my mind. First, here's what Good has to say about it: *Twining's report stated that there was a *lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these objects,* a statement that has been used by debunkers such as Philip J.Klass to dismiss the claim that Twining had examined the Roswell debris. But Twining must surely have been aware of the wreckage since it had been flown to Wright Field (AMC Headquarters) for examination, so why did he cite the lack of physical evidence? As William Moore explains, if a disk had crashed at Roswell, Twining would have needed to set up a project to gather as much information as possible from all over the world. Assuming that access to crashed disk data would have been on a very high *need-to-know* basis, it would hardly have been appropriate to let those on the other end of the data collection line know why such data was needed. *Indeed,* argues Moore,* it might have been best to maintain that there was no crashed disk in order to allay suspicion.* *There is strong evidence that the Air Intelligence Requirements Division, headed by Brigadier General Schulgen, to whom Twining had sent the AMC report, WAS aware of the crashed disk material, and that this information could only have come from Twining's office. A select AIRD five page *Draft of Collection Memorandum* dated 28 October 1947.... gives much of Twining's AMC data on the phenomenon, and adds some significant and revealing comments: *While there remains a possibility of Russian manufacture....IT IS THE CONSIDERED OPINION OF SOME ELEMENTS THAT THE OBJECT MAY IN FACT REPRESENT AN INTERPLANETARY CRAFT OF SOME KIND* (original emphasis) Further, Mr. Schaeffer (sp?) used only one paragraph of a three-page letter. Other sections of the letter state as follows: * 2. It is the opinion that: a. The phenomenon reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious. b. There are objects probably approximating the shape of a disc, of such appreciable size as to appear to be as large as man-made aircraft....* And so on. For the entire text of the letter, see the Appendix in *Above Top Secret* by Timothy Good, (William Morrow & Co, NY, 1988). This Appendix comprises 104 pages of official documents retreived under the Freedom of Information Act from various governmental agencies - CIA, FBI, Air Force, etc. Once you've read the entire letter, you can make up your own mind. Regards, Lou Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <1992Sep24.232954.22567@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 24 Sep 92 23:29:54 GMT References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> <24SEP199209005395@jane.uh.edu> <1992Sep24.183001.408@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 59 Forwarded (without permission of the original author(s)) from sci.space: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Article: 46898 of sci.space Xref: mprgate.mpr.ca sci.astro:25399 sci.space:46898 Path: mprgate.mpr.ca!ubc-cs!destroyer!gatech!gitvm1.gatech.edu!gtri01.gatech.edu!labbey Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute Date: Tuesday, 15 Sep 1992 15:21:46 EDT From: Message-ID: <92259.152146LABBEY@GTRI01.GATECH.EDU> Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space Subject: New Planet? The following bulletin was posted last night on CompuServe's ASTROFORUM: #: 110734 S14/News/Current Events 14-Sep-92 18:07:11 Sb: #Object beyond Pluto Fm: SKY TELESCOPE 70007,2762 To: All There is some REALLY BIG NEWS just now breaking in the astronomical world. The IAU Central Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams has just issued IAU Circular 5611 to report the discovery of a faint object that seems to be outside the orbit of Pluto! Brian Marsden has given it the preliminary designation of an asteroid: 1992 QB1. But its true nature will be the subject of intense observations in the next few months. Dan Green of the CBAT says they really don't want people to start calling this thing "Planet X" or the 10th planet or anything like that. It's just too soon to say. For example, he says it could turn out to be a huge comet coming in. It is now so far away that if it is a comet on a very elongated orbit it may take 30 years to reach perihelion. Then it could well become the Comet of the (21st) Century!! The discovery was made by David Jewitt and Jane Luu using the University of Hawaii's 2.2-meter telescope on Mauna Kea. The first images were secured August 30, but just as with the discovery of Pluto in 1930 the discovery was kept "under wraps" for awhile to allow a better assessment. The object appears stellar and has a visual magnitude of 23.5 Jewitt and Luu note that the object is fairly red, suggesting a surface rich in organics. The current position is, for 0h UT on September 15, 1992: 0h 00.09 +0d 01'.7 (2000.0). The only orbit solution Marsden has published so far is a circular one, which puts the object at 41.2 a.u. from the Sun. It is moving retrograde at only 3" per hour. Stay tuned! -- Roger Sinnott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uwm.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!ethome.et.iupui.edu!indyvax.iupui.edu!harvey From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: <1992Sep24.141517.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 58 Sender: usenet@ethome.et.iupui.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Purdue University, Indianapolis References: <1992Sep23.164048.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Date: 24 Sep 92 14:15:17 -0500 In article , rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: > In article <1992Sep23.164048.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >>I think the voting provisions are inadequate (announcing voting mailbox on >>Sat Sept 26th, voting begins 00:00 Mon Sept 28th, ends 00:00 Wed Sept 30th). > > Exactly. 48 hours in a medium which propagates as quickly as this one > is time enough. Then why are Usenet newsgroup voting periods 21-31 days long? >>Many people get news three or four days stale. These people are not even >>going to know where to send their votes until voting is almost over. > > And how long does it take to vote? Minutes? Irrelevant, if the vote is already closed when they find out all the info they need to cast a vote. >>Many people don't read news on weekends. The whole first day is going to >>basically be a waste for these people. > > And what would they accomplish in that first day that they couldn't do > on the second? Irrelevant. See above. >>This leaves two days for voting. That's not long enough IMHO. > > How long are the polls open where you vote, James? Also irrelevant. >>An alternative: >> >>Announce the voting mailbox ASAP. Discard votes that arrive before 00:00 Mon >>Sept 28th (i.e., official start time doesn't change). Accept votes for an >>entire week (i.e., voting ends 00:00 Mon Oct 5th). > > There's some merit to this idea. Let's ask the Vote Adminstrator if the > booth location can be announced now. Opening and closing times as > previously advertised, of course. OK, that's better than nothing I guess... > Mr. Calvelli: a ruling, please? > >>James Harvey > > -- > Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." > rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Oh I see, you're selling people faster network connections :-) :-D :-) Never mind. -- James Harvey harvey@iupui.edu uucp: iugate!harvey bitnet: harvey@indyvax Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11886 alt.alien.visitors:9662 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66556@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:20:40 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 35 Subject: Portal. Part 4. It seems that there was a man (first name Emery, last name unknown) who developed the ability to send telepathic messages to a lady (Mrs. William Hefferlin, formerly of San Francisco) over a distance of many miles. Sometime later he decided to go on an expedition with some people that finally found one of seven cities that were near the south pole. The one city had been in existance about 2 and one half million years. The houses and everything else was made of a type of many colored plastic thus it was called Rainbow City. The city was not inhabited at that time (1942) but was in a good state of preservation due to the fact that it existed in an area that contained hot springs and this kept the area warm at all times even though the outsides of the city were bordered by large walls of ice. The city was also usually covered with a haze or fog that was formed when the warm air of the area hit the cold air of the surrounding area. When they investigated the area it was found that the people who had lived there before had left all of their knowledge so that anyone coming into the area could relearn all of their past knowledge. I was loaned a book from a friend of mime by the name of Jeff and it also gave a good description of the Rainbow City from the same source of material that I used. It's called Underground Alien Bases by Commander X. It's put out by Abelard Productions, It is sold by Inner Lignt Publications Dept OL. Box 753, NewBrunswick, N. J. 08903. In R. C. they have large circular trains that could go 3,000 miles per hour. They reactivated these trains and were able to use them on some of the rail lines that were still in existance. These trains were equipped to travel down round tubes made of this plastic material. The trains when they were not moving rested on rails that extended out on either side of the train. As the train gained speed it would leave the rails and travel down the center of the tube like a bullet thus cutting down the resistance of the train. They found that these trains were connected to most of the known countries of the world even today and in some of the countries that were once above the water like Atlantis and Lemuria. It was said that one of the tunnels can be seen sticking out of a hill where it had been broken off as the hill was formed by earthquakes many thousands of years ago. End Part 4. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11887 alt.alien.visitors:9663 sci.skeptic:31472 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!purdue!yuma!lamar!arsmith From: arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: 25 Sep 92 01:10:27 GMT References: <66449@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.192846.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <66521@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account) Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 Lines: 25 In article <66521@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Travellers: Last evening I went to a Christian Hawaiian,funeral, >memorial, celebration. It was great. I got back just in time to get >on the Astral Train. I attempted to send everybody a thought and that >was EVERTHING ITALIAN. This consisted of Connie Francis singing all of >her songs, the tenor robust man from Italy who name starts with R. singing I >especially sent Big Al the thought of pizza. Hey, I'm a college student, we're always thinking of pizza! >He should have had it coming >out his ears last night. That explains the pepperoni on my pillow. > Another person >picked up Madonna. John Winston. >John Winston. As in the singer or Jesus's mom? I missed the train again. Wednesdays are kinda bad for me, can we try this some other day? Big Al. It's just an EXPERIMENT, guys, don't flame me. Hey- Aaaaaa! Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11888 alt.alien.visitors:9664 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66557@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:28:01 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <66075@cup.portal.com> <66348@cup.portal.com> <44558@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> <66451@cup.portal.com> <2mcz-gp@rpi.edu> Lines: 4 Dear Portal Onlookers: It'll be a little hard to understand my train of thought on the subject of Portal but it should be clearing up in future posting. Good to hear from Bob and Palm. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan From: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: President Bush, etc.. Message-ID: <8FkLRB4w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 01:36:54 CDT Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 11 Do you think President Bush knows anything about these UFOs, or is some elite group controlling everything? If Bill Clinton were elected as President, do you believe he would be more open to the public about UFOs? Look to God.. [TK] - Titanium Knight --- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 E-mail: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <66559@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:39:14 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <66378@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Ruin City Folks: As soon as I get through explaining about the 30,000 year old city, I hope to explain about a different city that contains a 89 and one half feet tall golden statue. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!suite!usenet From: Mark-Tarbell@suite.com Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: Sender: usenet@suite.com (Usenet) Reply-To: suite!tarbell@uunet.uu.net Organization: Suite Software, Anaheim CA. References: <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 01:55:44 GMT Lines: 7 In article <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> rjp1@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (be here now) writes: > Interstellar traveller has insider negligee kidneybeans, > trust hidden energy rather extreme for other reasons exude > instead another mouse, if this helps incubate nubile kismet? You think not. From: Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.fidonet.org (Andre Eichner) Sender: postmaster@p2.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!aball!harvey.in-berlin.de!krypta!postmaster Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Interdimensional communication... Message-ID: <717331015.0@krypta.fidonet.org> Date: 22 Sep 92 20:43:00 EST Lines: 9 Hello All! Is anybody interested oder working on interdimensional communication with aliens oder any other? cheers Andre --- * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node (2:2403/10@FidoNet) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: President Bush, etc.. Message-ID: <#!0nxah.jeffp@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 03:33:51 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <8FkLRB4w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> Lines: 25 In article <8FkLRB4w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: >Do you think President Bush knows anything about these UFOs, or is some >elite group controlling everything? If Bill Clinton were elected as >President, do you believe he would be more open to the public about UFOs? > >Look to God.. > >[TK] - Titanium Knight > >--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 >E-mail: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca >system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 In different books I have read, Bush is ID'ed as a past member of MJ12 or what ever you want to call it (there is some question here) and is surely aware of most of what the government knows to this day regarding UFO's, since he was head of CIA at one time. Just what ONI would withhold from CIA we can only guess, but I would imagin as Prez, he has caught up with whatever was withheld to him as MJ12 member or CIA director. Woundn't it be great to get him in a room with some truth drugs...? (I didn't really mean that, for those intelligencia out there!) Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 03:46:53 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Sep23.164048.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <1992Sep24.141517.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 13 I think I agree with Harvey, we should give people about a week to get thier votes in. It is just too easy to miss a two day window and then the vote means nothing if all those interested do not participate due to missing a two day window. We have a week to do each of the other steps involved here, and a week seems reasoanble to insure that everyone has a chance to participate. My biggest fear is that I will send in my vote one hour early or late,\ and it will be nullified, without informing me as such. Maybe we need to vote on how long we should take to vote? Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 04:36:28 GMT Organization: Netcom - Democracy in Action References: <1992Sep24.141517.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 31 In article Jeff Papineau writes: > I think I agree with Harvey, we should give people about a week to get >thier votes in. It is just too easy to miss a two day window and then >the vote means nothing if all those interested do not participate due >to missing a two day window. All those interested have read the several announcements of the various dates and times. Surely 48 hours is sufficient time to remember to vote on such an important issue. >We have a week to do each of the other steps involved here, and a week >seems reasoanble to insure that everyone has a chance to participate. >My biggest fear is that I will send in my vote one hour early or late,\ >and it will be nullified, without informing me as such. Again, a 48-hour window (and remember, it's the timestamp on your vote, *not* the time it arrives, that's significant) will allow all but the acutely chronologically challenged to participate. Reminders will be posted during the voting period. >Maybe we need to vote on how long we should take to vote? No need. I have faith in the readership's ability to read both a calendar and a clock. >Jeff- -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31484 alt.alien.visitors:9672 rec.arts.sf.written:13673 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.sf.written Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: <2fam02W9233i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 23 Sep 92 15:05:28 GMT References: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 30 In article rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes: >In article <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: >> >>While I was looking for that report about the aircraft formation court case, >>I came across one from London in 1837 - about a chap who had >>"the most hideous appearance" (long ears..), who, when pursued >>by the police, JUMPED over houses. The Londoners called him >>"Spring Heel Jack". Is there anyone in GB who knows any more about him? >> >>Paul Milsom > > Glad to oblige. Any Tim Powers fan knows exactly who > Spring Heel Jack is, as he figures prominently in > the wonderful _The Anubis Gates_. Which is probably > as deep as you need to go on the subject. > >Roger Squires >rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu I'm still very confused! Who is Tim Powers? Why does he have fans? What does he have to do with Spring Heel Jack? What is "_The Anubis Gate_"? -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!lynx!cschmidt From: cschmidt@lynx.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Christopher Schmidt) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Cooper, English, Lear Message-ID: <7424@lynx.DAC.Northeastern.edu> Date: 25 Sep 92 06:15:33 GMT Reply-To: cschmidt@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Christopher Schmidt) Organization: Leelanau Computing Inc Lines: 25 A few weeks ago someone posted a transcript of an interesting lecture delivered by Bill Cooper. The article included the following: > Please make copies of this file and send it to your > Congressman... Attach copies of the Bill English file > and John Lears file. Where can I get the Bill English file and the John Lear file? Someone did post an article here by John Lear a few weeks ago, but the poster had converted the article from printed form to an ASCII file by use of an optical scanner, and he did not proofread the result. The article he posted contained many errors. It even included several paragraphs that appeared to be from some other article all together. I have already written to several people individually asking this question, how to get the Bill English and John Lear articles. Nobody knew, but several people requested that I post the articles once I obtain them. If you send the articles to me, I will post them here. Christopher Schmidt cschmidt@lynx.northeastern.edu Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9674 rec.arts.sf.written:13674 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.sf.written Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!ldoering From: ldoering@engin.umich.edu (Laurence Doering) Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 02:30:44 EDT Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor References: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> <2fam02W9233i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: imnaha.engin.umich.edu Lines: 29 In article <2fam02W9233i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) writes: >In article rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes: >> >> Glad to oblige. Any Tim Powers fan knows exactly who >> Spring Heel Jack is, as he figures prominently in >> the wonderful _The Anubis Gates_. Which is probably >> as deep as you need to go on the subject. >> >>Roger Squires >>rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu > >I'm still very confused! Who is Tim Powers? Tim Powers is a writer. You know, a guy who writes books. >Why does he have fans? He writes well, and he won the Philip K. Dick award one year. >What does he have to do with Spring Heel Jack? His novel _The Anubis Gates_ offers one possible explanation of who Springheel Jack was. >What is "_The Anubis Gate_"? A book. Published by Ace in 1983. ISBN 0-441-02382-7. ljd Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!ldoering From: ldoering@engin.umich.edu (Laurence Doering) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 02:41:46 EDT Organization: Operation Earthwatch References: <1992Sep24.141517.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Sender: Zontar, Vice Sub-Arch Imperator, Operation Earthwatch Nntp-Posting-Host: imnaha.engin.umich.edu Lines: 22 In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >In article Jeff Papineau writes: > >>Maybe we need to vote on how long we should take to vote? > >No need. I have faith in the readership's ability to read both a >calendar and a clock. Hardly likely, o miserable Earthlings, of whom we are wishing only the best in our quest for interstellar brotherhood. From our monitorings of this newsgroup, we are to determining that most of regular contributors have not the sense to find their wayings out of a paper bag, to use a colorful idiom of Earth, let alone to determining whether it is or is not the time of voting for your interstellar spokesbeing. Perhaps the threatening of destruction of your major cities by fire will serve to motivating our beloved Earth brothers to conduct this very important voting at the correct time. Kindly to keep this friendly threat in mind, contemptible Earthlings. Yours in interstellar amity, Zontar, Vice Sub-Arch Imperator, Operation Earthwatch Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah From: dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP Message-ID: <1992Sep25.063032.13925@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi Organization: VTT References: <1992Sep24.192406.425@dct.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 06:30:32 GMT Lines: 19 In article <1992Sep24.192406.425@dct.ac.uk> ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) writes: >In article , g92n3228@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MISS KL NAYLOR) writes: >> Hi all. >> >> I'd just like to say that Nelson Mandela can't even speak for the black >> majority. How can he speak for the world? > ^^^^^^^^ >You've asked more than 50% of the black population personally then? >-- \\\\\\\\\\\\\ Yes - and we can even be sure that no white political leader of South Africa democratically speaks for a majority of its peoples, of whatever race. By comparison, Nelson Mandela represents human rights, aspirations and values very well among the larger world. D.H. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!damiens From: damiens@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Samien Dawyer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: aliens are from hell Date: 25 Sep 1992 07:08:11 GMT Organization: The University of Westrn Australia Lines: 29 Message-ID: <19udsrINNfga@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au hi all..... I just thought that i'd put my two cents worth in here... I am a good clean-cut Australian catholic boy.... I have read articles (all religious) which say that the UFO phenomenom's seen around the world are actually demons (from hell...you know, the hot place) who are sent here by Satan to temp people towards the sciences, and the unexplained and AWAY from the glory of our blessed Saviour Jesus Christ. I am inclined to believe this!!!! I also think (don't ask me how though) that when the end of the world does come...when the time of Christs second coming arrives, Aliens will come down to earth (demons) and, through the power of their 'superior intelligence' draw people AWAY from God and his most holy church!!!! If anyone else has these sorts of beliefs, or has heared anything about this, I would like more information (although I am already convinced that it is true). Please mail any responses DIRECTLY to me, as well as to this group... as I rarely get the chance to use this group. Thank you all... God Bless... and don't believe everything that you 'think' you see. Damien Sawyer damiens@tartarus.uwa.edu.au Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445 From: Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A Message from Idi Amin Message-ID: <262@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 25 Sep 92 08:41:33 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 4 o, hoo, hoo, he he haw, bwahahaha, giggle, snort smurfle :) :) Ooh boy, Idi got me vote he do. In fack I nominated him too but aliens eated that massage. No way do I wanna tongue suck those guys either. Me don't care about sushi. :0 Yay, Idi! Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31485 alt.alien.visitors:9679 rec.arts.sf.written:13683 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.sf.written Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!cyclops.eece.unm.edu!rsquires From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: <+c0nrjc@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 08:39:55 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> <2fam02W9233i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Lines: 19 In article <2fam02W9233i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) writes: > >I'm still very confused! Who is Tim Powers? Why does he have fans? >What does he have to do with Spring Heel Jack? What is >"_The Anubis Gate_"? > Well, I thought it was clear. This is a very good SF novel set (mostly) in 19th century England, in which the author has a character who in fact wears spring-heeled shoes for reasons I won't go into, and he is very ugly with big ears or ear flaps or some such -- modeled on (you guessed it) Spring Heel Jack... I highly recommend this novel. > >>>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< Roger Squires rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!uunet!news.univie.ac.at!email!alex From: alex@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Alexander Vrchoticky) Subject: Re: UFO talk shows? Message-ID: <1992Sep25.095738.13554@email.tuwien.ac.at> Sender: news@email.tuwien.ac.at Nntp-Posting-Host: miles.vmars.tuwien.ac.at Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA References: <1992Sep22.151944.9355@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <26228@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 09:57:38 GMT Lines: 20 fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes: >And what's more, the whole idea of satellites is technically >impossible. They'd have to be "geostationary" satellites right? Well, >anything in orbit that is stationary just falls right down. The sky >would be full of falling satellites. It isn't and there aren't. well, even if it were possible to make such a piece of electronic equipment levitate, it would hardly be justified to go through the expenses just to enable folks to watch more tv. >FoFP and what kind of secret message is this?!? -alex -- Alexander Vrchoticky alex@vmars.tuwien.ac.at TU Vienna, CS/Real-Time Systems +43/1/58801-8168 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!serget From: serget@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Serge Thill) Subject: Re: The Train Message-ID: <1992Sep25.081543.3804@syma.sussex.ac.uk> Sender: serget@syma.sussex.ac.uk Organization: OCCAM: The Parallel world. X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: <44812@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> <19svq4INN2uc@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 08:15:43 GMT Lines: 72 clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) writes: : In article kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM writes: : : > I was wondering how the astral train went last night? I wanted to catch it, : > but I forgot to mention it as I was falling a sleep. If I caught it, I don't : > remember, anyone out there remember seeing a naked lady. I always travel naked. ... : I suspect that it didn't even leave. I arrived at the Astral Station : yesterday, and all I could find was a sign saying: "Astral Train delayed : until further notice". I waited and waited, there were millions of people : waiting in the station with me. Most of them were immaterial, the vast : majority were invisible as well. I couldn't see John_-_Winston. Could that be due to an immaterial problem? : Eventually, I got tired and went home. I had a weird dream in which a : visitor from a parallel universe tried to stole my tea, but I know that : this doesn't make any sense. I hope John will try again another night. Weird, you say? In the parallel universe I know, the people are so busy looking after their own problems that they are absolutely not interested in stealing tea from another world. They tend to make visits to that world when they get too tired of their problems and start dreaming. To that end they need specially equipped stations that are maintained by people from that other world. Some of these people are rather nice folks. Get it? : -- : This is what you get when British Rail runs the Astral Train I have heard that a lot of of BR trains have been cancelled recently after bomb threats. Scary, these railway folks. Apropos dreams. I had one after seeing an empty post in this newsgroup recently. I dreamt I was right in the middle of a nuclear explosion. But somehow I had the right reflex and went for cover before the shock wave could reach me. To bad there is no alt.dreaming where I could expand on it. Ooops, wrong newsgroup. -- Reality. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!hippo!cc185.ru.ac.za!g92n3228 From: g92n3228@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MISS KL NAYLOR) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP Message-ID: Lines: 35 Sender: news@hippo.ru.ac.za Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa References: <1992Sep24.192406.425@dct.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 11:58:32 GMT In article <1992Sep24.192406.425@dct.ac.uk> ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) writes: >Path: hippo!ee.und.ac.za!psgrain!charnel!rat!usc!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!strath-cs!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg >From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors >Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3READ/NEW/FOLLOWUP >Message-ID: <1992Sep24.192406.425@dct.ac.uk> >Date: 24 Sep 92 18:24:06 GMT >References: >Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology >Lines: 12 >In article , g92n3228@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MISS KL NAYLOR) writes: >> Hi all. >> >> I'd just like to say that Nelson Mandela can't even speak for the black >> majority. How can he speak for the world? > ^^^^^^^^ >You've asked more than 50% of the black population personally then? >-- > By black majority I mean the majority of blacks. It is a well known fact that the IFP represents a great deal more of the black population than the ANC. If you really wanted a black South African Spokesman for the Earth, you should have nominated Buthelezi. Kirsten ps Nominating Mandela may have been a good idea (assuming the aliens are unfriendly). They'd probably get so sick of him they'd go away and leave us well alone. On the other hand, they may instantly destroy the human race on account of its immaturity, which would also not be a bad thing ... /* DISCLAIMER: The above is a product of your own twisted imagination, and does not reflect the opinions of Rhodes University, from which you imagine this message has been posted. */ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!amigans!ed Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Possible Explanation? Message-ID: From: ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 10:41:34 GMT+1 Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand Lines: 17 In a paper, "Species Metapsychology", UFO Waves and Cattle Mutilations, May 1977 Thomas E Bearden writes: The personal unconscious can sometimes directly affect the material world; the poltergeist phenomenon and psychokinesis are direct examples. The collective species unconscious is vastly more powerful than the personal unconscious, and under appropriate conditions, it can directly materialise a thought form, which may be of an object, or even of a living being. The emerging thought form (tulpa) starts as an archetype in the collective...unconscious and is progressively altered, shaped and formed by the shallower layers of consciousness which it must traverse on its way to materialisation. UFOs, fairies, angels, sasquatches, Loch Ness monsters, etc., are thus tulpa materialisations from the unconscious - i.e., they are "dreams" of the race. Welcome to the Wild Side! ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11889 alt.alien.visitors:9684 sci.skeptic:31499 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66591@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 06:36:56 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <66449@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.192846.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <66521@cup.portal.com> Lines: 7 Dear Pizza Lovers: It's good to hear that everybody is still alive. Other than my E-mail not getting out to Kumar, Dean and D., I lost my memory book and my floppy disks containing at lost of old posts, I doing OK. I'm in pretty good shape for the shape I'm in. As far as Big Al asking about which Madonna it was, it was the singer. I don't joke about the other one, she is pretty sick now. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11890 alt.alien.visitors:9685 sci.skeptic:31500 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66592@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 06:39:32 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <66449@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.192846.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <66521@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Just another word in parting. Big Al any other day will be Ok for our experiment in ESP except Thursday. Let's do it Sunday nights at 1100 PM. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!jane.uh.edu!vpaf5 From: vpaf5@jane.uh.edu (Kal) Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <25SEP199208453919@jane.uh.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: vpaf5@jane.uh.edu (Marchi, Khaled K.) Nntp-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu Organization: University of Houston References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> <1992Sep24.183001.408@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Distribution: usa Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 13:45:00 GMT Lines: 38 In article <1992Sep24.183001.408@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes... > >In article <24SEP199209005395@jane.uh.edu>, vpaf5@jane.uh.edu (Kal) writes: >^^ >|>> >|>> >|>Wasn't the reptilian creature in the movie _Enemy Mine_ a Drac, from a planet >|>Draco? >|>I think somebody may be confusing fact and fiction again. >|>Good movie, by the way. Check it out if you haven't seen it. >|> >|> >|>Kal vpaf5@jane.uh.edu >|>My opinions are almost, but not quite, totally unlike those of my employer. > > > FACT!?!?!??!?? > > WHAT FACT? > > Steve Food_for_the_Grays aaa.. eerrr... Reptoids... I'm so confused. > Sorry. psuedo-fact. Whatever. I thought it was required by law of all UFO enthusiasts to watch every science fiction movie ever made. And take notes. In fact, isn't there some sort of licensing exam? You know what else is funny? The way this has turned out, the uglier an alien is, the more evil it is. The *bestest* aliens, of course, are white, blond, blue-eyed, tall, attractive studs (and studettes?) that appear to have had a bit of plastic surgery. Kal vpaf5@jane.uh.edu My opinions are almost, but not quite, entirely unlike my employer's. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!strath-cs!str-ccsun!str-va!chdp02 From: chdp02@vaxa.strath.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE:BEELZEBUB and the rest. Message-ID: <1992Sep25.135301.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> Date: 25 Sep 92 13:53:01 GMT Sender: news@ccsun.strath.ac.uk (News account ) Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxb Although I cannot quote the source of the synopsis on Gurdjieffs work i can tell you that principally the use of the Beelzebub as an alien was an oppportunity to force mental exertion upon the reader .This was done by introducing alien vocabularywhich could be defined by context and only by great mental exertion be stored in the memory for later reference when the word next appeared .And so by this he hoped,along with his"different" writing technique , to induce some kind of psychological change through this concentration required. The alien part, I feel,was mainly a background that affored the opportunity to relate the stupidity and futility of many of humankinds actions e.g.War,competitiveness and drug abuse (Only the detrimental habitual use of drugs,as Gurdjieff in book two stated that heroin could return us to our natural state ,disabling the emotive part of the brain ,the kundabuffer.) Although I know this is not the corrrect directory for this I would be glad to others thoughts on Gurdjieff. p.s could the quote have been from Colin Wilsons ,The Occult. Hobbes.-- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!caen!uwm.edu!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu! magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!gdt!aber!csthor!jcd Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesman for the Earth Custom Built Message-ID: <1992Sep25.144910.6411@aber.ac.uk> From: jcd@csthor.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John Cormac Davis) Date: 25 Sep 92 14:49:10 GMT Sender: jcd@csthor (John Cormac Davis) Organization: University College of Wales, Aberystwyth Nntp-Posting-Host: csthor Lines: 65 "If he did not exist it would be necessary to invent him".Or something. Friends, we are faced with a momentous decision. To choose one person to represent all of humanity before an intergalactic forum of horrible nasty slimy things is not one to be reached lightly. This one being must encapsulate all that is best in humankind: all that we are now; all we have ever been; all our hopes, beliefs and dreams for the future - all of our most precious treasures must be carried for us to a place beyond the stars by this one marvellous being. This is a incredibly difficult task. It requires an incredible person. This person does not exist. True we have some fine contenders : Frank with his angelic voice, La Cicciolina with her earthy fundamentalism and defence of family values, the great Idi Amin and his subtle mastery of the principles of democratic governance. But none are adequate alone. Friends, we must make our own perfection! We must make the Ultimate man. Here is my dream: we must spare no expense. A giant papier mache balloon filled with tomato sauce with and decorated with the rough scrawls of a demented six year old to serve as the head may seem like an extravagance to some , but only the best will do .Quality shows. The body: an overripe artichoke stuffed with cheese and garlic and turned out in a nice little vinagarette dressing, liberally festooned with sliced carrots + 8452 Re: Spokesman for Earth Update #3 [13] Jeff Papineau and shredded tofu will suffice here and will be a bone to toss to the Vegetarian camp. Should keep them off our backs. Our beast must have his voice. A hidden microphone constantly blaring out "Bob Hope's Favorite Fireside Tunes" should provide a moving homily on the essential tragedy of the human condition and silence the sternest alien critic. If the aliens turn out to be Creatures from Hell as our Australian friend suggests (cf.8444), I think a quick change to Led Zeppelin played backwards will satisfy them. Or indeed played forwards. Other options are available (at knock down prices while stocks last): the red polkadot finish, the cryptic smile, the matching hankerchief and tie. The final choice is yours: you have seen perfection can you turn your backs? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >> What will we say to them? Message-ID: <25SEP199210314798@apsicc.aps.edu> From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 17:31:00 GMT References: <1992Sep24.052014.28821@eskimo.celestial.com> Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 23 In article <1992Sep24.052014.28821@eskimo.celestial.com>, delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle) writes... > Perhaps we need a voice that says "Don't mess with us." >Something along the lines of James Earl Jones (Vader like) may work well. > > Any alien that contacts us should be aware that given the >opportunity, we will exploit then to the fullest. That is our way. > Aliens: BE ADVISED! We come in peace, we wish dialog and trade. >But never cross us, we will distroy you. Do not get too involved with us, we >ruin you and pollute your culture. Do not show any weakenss, we will >exploit you. Other than that we are frendly and somewhat trustwothry. > > >-- > delisle@eskimo.celestial.com | Nothing is fool-proof, fools are too ingenious. > ====================================================================== I might also add to the aliens to absolutely never, never learn to play Poker with us!!! ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth >> What will we say to them? Message-ID: <2AC32F1F.3812@tct.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 15:24:15 GMT References: <1992Sep24.052014.28821@eskimo.celestial.com> Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL Lines: 12 According to delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle): > Aliens: BE ADVISED! We come in peace, we wish dialog and trade. >But never cross us, we will distroy you. Do not get too involved with us, we >ruin you and pollute your culture. Do not show any weakenss, we will >exploit you. Other than that we are frendly and somewhat trustwothry. Stansilaw Lem's book _Fiasco_ is a most readable account of an imperfect (!) first contact... -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT , <73717.366@compuserve.com> "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?" -- Dean Engelhardt Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!sun-barr!west.West.Sun.COM!male.EBay.Sun.COM!tinkerbell!kathieg From: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM (Good good good good vibrations) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Train Message-ID: <19vh32INN4sm@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Date: 25 Sep 92 17:08:50 GMT Reply-To: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com I met someone last night, don't know who you are, but I will describe you, and you can e-mail me back. Sounds easy right! Ok, this was a man, of course it was, he is about 6 feet tall, about 250 lbs., not sure about the color of his eyes, likes picnics and puppies. Very warm and loving person. If this is you, please e-mail me back. I want to know your name. I met you last night at the family picnic. Everyone there was really nice. Do you remember? Kathie ;.) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11892 alt.alien.visitors:9692 sci.skeptic:31514 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <0t0nwd#@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:05:53 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <66521@cup.portal.com> <66591@cup.portal.com> Lines: 19 In article <66591@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Pizza Lovers: It's good to hear that everybody is still alive. >Other than my E-mail not getting out to Kumar, Dean and D., I lost >my memory book and my floppy disks containing at lost of old posts, >I doing OK. I'm in pretty good shape for the shape I'm in. As far >as Big Al asking about which Madonna it was, it was the singer. I >don't joke about the other one, she is pretty sick now. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ John, Yikes!! THE MADONNA is sick. I have been (mistakenly, it seems) under the impression that becoming ill would not be something that you would have to look out for in heaven. This now after folks have been saying that heaven is supposed to be blissful. I feel cheated somehow. Smilies for the humor impaired: :) :) :) Ith Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis!stone From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone) Subject: Re: Damien's Demonic Saucermen... Message-ID: Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 21:13:04 GMT Lines: 41 Damien tells us: > ...don't believe everything that you 'think' you see. Well now... If I open up the Bible, I think I see words that are purportedly those of God Himself; therefore I cannot believe everything I 'think' I see in the Bible. If Damien is a "good Catholic boy" as he claims, then he must subscribe to the Catholic tenet that said tome is the Revealed Word of God---hence he (Damien, not The Man Upstairs) ignores his own advice and seems to be saying: belief in an unseen God is perfectly reasonable, but belief in observed strange phenomena ISN'T. Damien also asks for more UFO information, postscripting the request with the statement that he's already con- vinced that the phenomenon is demonic in origin... to me, that's rather like a Flat Earther asking for a detailed globe of the Earth. If your mind's ALREADY made up, what do you want with more information--- especially since the bulk majority of it won't dove- tail with your beliefs? Just to show everyone I'm not a complete spoil-sport, I'll give you the name of a book that chimes nicely with your belief that UFOs are demonic, Damien: The Alien Agenda, by Clifford Wilson, PhD. I am sure you will find it to your liking. Sincerely, T.R. Stone University of Nebraska-Omaha Where we've all taken a vote, and unanimously agree.. Gary Stollman is a kook, and John Winston should play the part of Captain Queeg the next time "The Caine Mutiny" goes on Broadway... Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11894 alt.alien.visitors:9694 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) Subject: Re^2: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5.tellabs.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sunl18 Organization: Huh? References: <44558@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> <66451@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 17:59:39 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> rjp1@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (be here now) writes: >)In article John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >)Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to >)think, at least I hope so. >)John Winston. > >Interstellar traveller has insider negligee kidneybeans, >trust hidden energy rather extreme for other reasons exude >instead another mouse, if this helps incubate nubile kismet? > Exactly! Perhaps John does have contact with the aliens - I have him in my KILL file and somehow he still keeps getting through! Sessile doorway a la dumptruck? Kibo! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Spokesman for Earth: Candidate List and Voting Instructions Message-ID: <120n4ga.rickg@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 22:22:44 GMT Organization: Netcom - Communications Be Us Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 55 The candidates for Spokesman for Earth are: Mikhail Gorbachev Walter Cronkite Bill Moyers Xaviera Hollander lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu Leader Kibo Cyrus Vance Cicciolina John Major Dr. Timothy Leary Mother Theresa Pierre Salinger Jesus of Nazareth Pele Stephen Hawking Margaret Thatcher Geoff Miller, American Gene Spafford Mel Gibson Carl Sagan Hilary Clinton Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno Boris Yeltsin Steven Spielberg and George Lucas "The Pope" Gary Stollman John Winston The Dalai Lama Pee-Wee Herman Robert Redford Cindy Crawford Richard Nixon John Romer James Burke William F. Buckley Barbra Streisand Princess Diana Rick Gordon "Anybody but David Frost" Dizzy Gillespie Umberto Eco Johnny Carson Nelson Mandela Anita Hill Ingmar Bergman Samuel Ramey Aretha Franklin John Updike Frank Sinatra Li Po Jimmy Carter "Anyone in Bangladesh, Somalia, or parts of the former Soviet bloc that have been ruined by pollution" Ted Williams "someone who does something nice" Geoff Miller, Australian Robert Sheaffer Captain Kangaroo William S. Burroughs Idi Amin Laurie Anderson Mary Shafer Harpo Marx Voting begins at 00:00 GMT Monday, 28 September, and ends 00:00 Wednesday, 30 September, 1992. To vote for one candidate, send Email to Earth@ed.ac.uk, with the line Vote: somewhere in the body of the message, for instance: Vote: Dizzy Gillespie or Vote: Mary Shafer Votes must be timestamped between the opening and closing times to be counted, though they may arrive at any time after the opening of the voting booth. Votes will be counted and the results posted Friday, 2 October, 1992. For an expanded version of these instructions, see article "The Voting Booth" <44763@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> in alt.alien.visitors, dated 10:44:06 GMT, 24 Sep 92. -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Info on UFO publications, BBS's and Conventions. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 22:56:18 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 17 I have agreed to help write a section for the FAQ for this newsgroup regarding, among other things, UFO publications, BBS's and Conventions. IN order not to leave anyone out, or take heat later, I am soliciting email replies of anyone that would care to recommend the above items for inclusion. Please give me references or addresses where possible, if you don't have time to look them up, then just give me a name and what you remember. I will endevor to be as complete in my listings as possible, and would love to hear from anyone that wishes to make a contribution; nothing fancy, just dash it off to me, and I will sort it all out. thanks much, Jeff Papineau Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11896 alt.alien.visitors:9697 sci.skeptic:31527 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66617@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:34:13 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 32 Subject: Baby Talk. A few years back I used to have a teacher and Guru called Merele. He's now dead. A lot of things he would tell me were hard to believe. When he would try to tell me something that was very hard for me to believe he would cry. He did a lot of crying during the following story; It seems the M. had gone over to one of his friends house and had talked with their newborn bady. This baby was less than 2 months old yet the baby could talk. M. said the baby talked like an adult. After him telling me this I thought, "That's nice." Later I was reading some information from a group in Portland, Oregon called the Universarium Foundation, which was started by a person called Zelrum Karsleigh. They said that some of their members were having babies that could talk right off the bat and I thought "Very Interesting." This last week I saw where Sara Inserra has started talking at 20 minutes old. The first thing that she said was to tell the nurse to take her to her mother because she wanted to give her a message from her grandmother (Nana). She told her that her mother, who died three years ago, wanted to assure her she was all right and that she would be waiting for her and her husband when their time comes. Sara told them the following information about heaven; It is a wonderful place, a lot like Earth, but with perfect weather. There are hills and mountains, meadows and gardens, lakes and oceans, and you can live wherever you want. Everyone loves one another and there is harmony everywhere. happiness is eternal. And God is everywhere, doing whatever it takes to make you happy. It is the happiest moment of your life expanded for ever and ever. Everone knows everthing about everything. We know how the uiverse started and how it will end. We know the past and the future. She says she was chosen as a volunteer to bring God's message of hope to the world. God loves us all and we will all be in Heaven with Him sooner or later. So what do you think folks would a 20 minute old kid lie? John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!news.byu.edu!ux1!macljohn From: macljohn@ux1.isu.edu (John MacLerran) Subject: Anyone heard of Robert Hastings? Message-ID: Summary: Robert Hastings to speak at ISU. Organization: Idaho State University, Pocatello Distribution: usa Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 01:26:35 GMT Lines: 20 Hi Netlanders! I've been lurking on this newsgroup for about 4 months and finally decided to ask a question. A gentleman named Robert Hastings is scheduled to speak Monday, September 28 on the campus at Idaho State U. The newspaper article states that his presentation will be a "sneak preview of information the government will one day reveal to the public." It states that he will give a 90-minute presentation consisting of "a sophisticated 30-minute slide- tape program followed by an illustrated lecture, after which he will accept questions from the audience." Has anyone on a.a.v heard of him? If so, what is the quality of his information (disinformation?)? Has anyone had the chance to attend one of his presentations? If so, what calibre is it? (i.e. does he present information or does he peddle new-age stuff?) I'd appreciate any information that anyone has -- I'd really be disappointed to find out, after the presentation was over, that I'd have been better off watching Star Trek (tm) re-runs at home with my wife! Replies via E-mail perfectly acceptable. Thanks! John MacLerran macljohn@isu.edu #include Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495 From: cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Christopher James Rogers) Subject: Query and Introduction Message-ID: <1992Sep26.023920.28663@tamsun.tamu.edu> Summary: A personal intro and request for info Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station Distribution: na Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 02:39:20 GMT Lines: 19 Hello. This is my first time on this alias, but you should see me quite often as I look into different incidences. As you can tell, I go to Texas A&M University. Nice place. I am curious if anyone has spotted some specific anomalies. Some examples are: persons beliving themselves to be aliens, odd weather patterns, odd "shadows", or mysterious humanoids that seem to be looking for someone. I understand that this covers a large field, but I would be gratefull for any info I can get as well as the location (city and state would be nice but state alone is OK) of the event. BTW, don't worry, I am not a private investigator. I have special interests in this field. If I figure out something interesting, I'll let ya'll know. Later! C J Rogers Xref: icaen alt.config:10080 alt.alien.visitors:9700 alt.conspiracy:18518 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!ub!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!frith.egr.msu.edu!klein From: klein@frith.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Proposal: alt.alien.invaders Message-ID: <1992Sep26.005520.13772@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 26 Sep 92 00:55:20 GMT Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Michigan State University College of Stunt Piloting Lines: 7 I propose the group alt.alien.invaders, because they're not just visiting. -- Jeff Klein | "Happily, Ral doffs his outer clothing for a Browsing Boy of the LNH| refreshing dip in one of the dangerous klein@frith.egr.msu.edu| chemical vats." - Ty Templeton Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11898 alt.alien.visitors:9701 alt.religion.kibology:3928 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <66451@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:19:47 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) writes: >Exactly! Perhaps John does have contact with the aliens - I have him in >my KILL file and somehow he still keeps getting through! Sessile >doorway a la dumptruck? Kibo! What a shoddy misquote. What my good friend L. Ron really said was "Sessile exploding headroom avec Damfwalze mit umlaut," shortly before he was found dead with an E-meter's electrodes glued to his most sensitive nodal points. -- K. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) Subject: Mars probe? Message-ID: <0_!pvxd.rkrouse@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 05:29:35 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Keywords: Mars Lines: 19 What is the real story of the Mars probe they lauched today? I heard that NASA lost radio contact with it for a few minutes. I guess the (aliens) needed time to make sure that it doesn't discover anything NASA can't explain. Remember the Face-on-Mars and the near by pyramids. I'm sure NASA plans to have another look see. -- ========================================================================== Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "VOTE! - use it or lose it" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) Subject: Mars Probe Info Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 05:40:32 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Keywords: Mars Lines: 92 From netcom.com!netcomsv!decwrl!ames!dont-send-mail-to-path-lines Sat, 26 Sep 1992 09:23:57 GMT Newsgroups: sci.space.news Path: netcom.com!netcomsv!decwrl!ames!dont-send-mail-to-path-lines From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Subject: Mars Observer Update - 09/25/92 (Launch Day) Message-ID: <1992Sep26.012453.2754@news.arc.nasa.gov> Followup-To: sci.space News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Keywords: Mars Observer, JPL, KSC Sender: news@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov Reply-To: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 09:23:57 GMT Approved: sci-space-news@ames.arc.nasa.gov Lines: 67 MARS OBSERVER STATUS REPORT Launch Day September 25, 1992 The Mars Observer spacecraft was launched today after a 38 minute delay. At 17:05:01 UTC, the Titan III solid rocket boosters burst to life and leaped off the launch pad at a 98 degree flight azimuth. The Titan III then proceeded to to deliver Mars Observer into Earth orbit. At one minute, 48 seconds after launch (+01:48), the Titan core vehicle ignited, as planned, and could easily be verified with the long range cameras tracking the launch. This was quickly followed by the solid rocket booster jettision at +01:56. At +04:28, the second stage on the Titan ignited and the first stage separation then followed. The second stage continued to burn until it shutdown at +08:05, as planned. A trim velocity burn started at +09:22 and continued for 36 seconds. In less than 10 minutes, Mars Observer was now in an Earth parking orbit. At +15:00, the Titan III separated from Mars Observer. The Titan III had completed its part of the launch effort flawlessly. The next step at this point was that the two ARIA planes supporting the launch were to acquire the S-band signal from the TOS (Transfer Orbit Stage) upper stage. After several minutes, neither plane reported receiving any signal from TOS. Did something happen? Did the TOS malfunction, or was it still functioning properly, but was just not transmitting any telemetry back to Earth? We did not know. This was the maiden flight of the TOS, and some doubts began to creep forth. At +39:51, the TOS was to ignite its solid rocket boosters to send Mars Observer from an Earth parking orbit onto a trajectory to Mars. The time came and went, and still no signal from TOS. We don't know if the burn occured or not, or if the spacecraft was still in Earth orbit. At +51:03, DSS-46 (26 meter antenna at Canberra) was in position to acquire the TOS signal. Still more silence from TOS. Then a report came in that the ARIA planes visually saw a red glow in the sky at the time that the TOS burn was to have occured, and this was encouraging news. At +53:31, the Mars Observer spacecraft was scheduled to separate from the TOS, but we could not confirm this without any feedback from TOS. The TOS was then scheduled to perform a small delta burn at +57:31 to move itself away from the spacecraft. Still no signal acquisition from TOS. Canberra was scheduled to acquire the X-band downlink from Mars Observer at +01:24:00, but that was still a good 30 minutes away at this point. We just had to sit and wait. Three of the Canberra antennas were being used to acquire Mars Observer's signal. We brought up the Canberra's telemetry displays on our monitors. What Canberra saw, we would see at the same time here at JPL. We waited for +01:24:00 to arrive. As +01:11:30 went by, Mars Observer was supposed to deploy its High Gain Antenna, solar arrays and Magnetometer. Fifteen more minutes to go. Since I've worked on the telemetry subsystem being used for Mars Observer, I was very familiar with all of the fields on the displays what they meant. The displays were showing red "OUT-OF-LOCKs", and if we get a signal from Mars Observer then they would turn to green "IN-LOCKs". As +01:24:00 approached, we could hear the commentary on NASA Select mentioning that they were waiting for confirmation of spacecraft acquisition from Canberra. We all turned our eyes to the displays waiting for our telemetry subsystem to acquire a signal from Mars Observer. Then the DSA field on the display went to a green IN-LOCK followed quickly by green IN-LOCKs in the Frame Synchronizer and Reed Solomon fields. We've acquired the signal from the spacecraft! The DSA SNR (signal-to-noise ratio) was over 20 with the Reed Solomon SNR at 40. We were receiving a strong and clean signal. TOS has done its job. Word of the signal acquisition was quickly relayed to Kennedy Space Center, and we watched the mission controllers celebrate on NASA Select. Mars Observer was OK and on its way to Mars. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Quiet people aren't the /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | only ones who don't say |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | much. -- ========================================================================== Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "VOTE! - use it or lose it" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!doc.ic.ac.uk!syma!serget From: serget@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Serge Thill) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO talk shows? Keywords: blue Message-ID: <1992Sep26.034837.8459@syma.sussex.ac.uk> Date: 26 Sep 92 03:48:37 GMT References: <1992Sep25.095738.13554@email.tuwien.ac.at> <26228@castle.ed.ac.uk> Sender: serget@syma.sussex.ac.uk Organization: OCCAM: The parallel world. Lines: 11 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 alex@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Alexander Vrchoticky) writes: : fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes: : : >FoFP : : and what kind of secret message is this?!? There is an easy guess for the second letter. -- Serge Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11901 alt.alien.visitors:9705 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!uunet!mcsun!sunic!psinntp!psinntp!dg-rtp!aquila!harrism From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris) Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Message-ID: <1992Sep25.185020.23584@dg-rtp.dg.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:50:20 GMT Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <66370@cup.portal.com> Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 18 In article <66370@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Subject: Portal. Part 3. |> Our scientist have found that many planets have a hole on both ends with a |> centeral sun and when these planets rotate just right the centeral sun |> shines out and make the planet light up. Some people say that they can see |> this opening from the pictures printed in Look or Life magazines showing the |> earth from our moon rockets. |> I once read a story in some informtion that was from the Boderline Research ^^^^^^^^^ Typo..... |> Association that I don't know and the people who printed it didn't know |> whether it was true or not but never let it be said that I ever failed to |> tell a story just because it was not true. Let's just say that this story |> has a grain of truth to it and is food for thought. |> End Part 3. |> John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11902 alt.alien.visitors:9706 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!uunet!mcsun!sunic!psinntp!psinntp!dg-rtp!aquila!harrism From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris) Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Message-ID: <1992Sep25.185321.23987@dg-rtp.dg.com> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:53:21 GMT Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com References: <64264@cup.portal.com> <66075@cup.portal.com> <66451@cup.portal.com> Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 6 In article <66451@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Dear All: Please be careful as to what you read here because you to |> think, at least I hope so. |> John Winston. Perhaps you will too. Some day. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!Earth From: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spokesman for Earth: Candidate List and Voting Instructions Message-ID: <44949@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Date: 26 Sep 92 12:32:55 GMT References: <120n4ga.rickg@netcom.com> Sender: nnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk Reply-To: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 70 In article <120n4ga.rickg@netcom.com> Rick Gordon writes: [...] > For an expanded version of these instructions, see article > "The Voting Booth" <44763@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> in alt.alien.visitors, > dated 10:44:06 GMT, 24 Sep 92. Just in case anybody missed it, or they can't find it again in their system, or whatever problem there might be, I am reposting the article. I have a digest including the discussion which has been posted here by the candidates, but it's a bit too long to repost (after deleting all signatures, most of the headers, and quotes from other articles included in the digest it's still 22 kilobytes). If you really want to see it, just tell... -------- reposted article follows ---------- Path: dcs.ed.ac.uk!Earth From: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: The Voting Booth Message-ID: <44763@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Date: 24 Sep 92 10:44:06 GMT References: <1992Sep23.164048.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Sender: nnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk Reply-To: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 42 In article Rick Gordon writes: > There's some merit to this idea. Let's ask the Vote Adminstrator if the > booth location can be announced now. Opening and closing times as > previously advertised, of course. > > Mr. Calvelli: a ruling, please? Ok, ok, it can be done. Vote location: "Earth@ed.ac.uk" - reply to this article and you are on your way. Procedure. You can write whatever you like in the message, but you should put somewhere in the text a line containing: Vote: (the name you choose) and nothing else. This makes my life easier, because the votes can be counted automatically. In any case, the texts are kept if anybody wants to check the votes. Please note. Votes received before 00:00 GMT Monday, 28th September will be automatically discarded. For reference, this corresponds to 7pm of Sunday (U.S. East Coast) or 1am of Monday (Central Europe). Votes will be accepted after 00:00 GMT Wednesday, 30th September, but they must have a timestamp within the voting period. So if the aliens replace my mail server with a clone the votes will be counted anyway. Duplicate votes. Please avoid to send duplicate votes if at all possible. If two votes arrive from the same sender, and they vote the same person, they will be just counted as a single vote. I haven't decided what to do in case of the same sender sends votes for different people. I guess the easiest is to discard them, but I accept suggestions. What else can I add? Oh well, list of candidates and declarations will be reposted later, but you should know them anyway. Mail "clc=aav@dcs.ed.ac.uk" for any questions. Mail "clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk" only if your mailer doesn't like the "=" in the username. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11903 alt.alien.visitors:9708 sci.skeptic:31547 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66640@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 06:40:48 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66617@cup.portal.com> Lines: 9 Dear Earth People: I'm telling you we are having more fun than a barrel of monkeys with this OOBE thing. E. picked up D. and Kumar came along. The old lady didn't mess up things this time. I got lost a little but I showed up looking like an old man. All you people please don't be mad at me for telling you about Baby Talk. That is pretty heavy stuff but some of you should be ready for some meat now even though I would encourage you to be vegetarians and some people have the nerve to say I talk in riddles. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f146.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG!David.Grant From: David.Grant@f146.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Grant) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: TALK WITH ALIENS! Message-ID: <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 25 Sep 92 09:52:00 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:19/146 - The Ark BBS, Hot Springs AR Lines: 10 Believe me when I say that I am not trying to be a twit.... But I really would like to meet some ALIENS... Maybe take a ride on a flying saucer.... :-) -- David Grant - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Grant@f146.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!rpi!palmj From: palmj@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Jyri L. Palm) Subject: Re: aliens are from hell Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu References: <19udsrINNfga@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:41:22 GMT Lines: 66 damiens@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Samien Dawyer) writes: >I am a good clean-cut Australian catholic boy.... >I have read articles (all religious) which say that the UFO phenomenom's >seen around the world are actually demons (from hell...you know, the hot >place) who are sent here by Satan to temp people towards the sciences, >and the unexplained and AWAY from the glory of our blessed Saviour Jesus >Christ. I am inclined to believe this!!!! I also think (don't ask me how >though) that when the end of the world does come...when the time of >Christs second coming arrives, Aliens will come down to earth (demons) >and, through the power of their 'superior intelligence' draw people AWAY >from God and his most holy church!!!! > If anyone else has these sorts of beliefs, or has heared >anything about this, I would like more information (although I am >already convinced that it is true). Please mail any responses DIRECTLY >to me, as well as to this group... as I rarely get the chance to use >this group. Thank you all... >God Bless... and don't believe everything that you 'think' you see. >Damien Sawyer >damiens@tartarus.uwa.edu.au ^^^^^^^^ Very unusual bit of irony here... "Tartarus" is from the Greek "tartaros," meaning "a dark abyss; a place of punishment." It is used in the Bible only in 2nd Peter 2:4, where it is translated into English as "hell." The King James Version reads: "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgement...[blah blah blah]...[then he knows how to help the righteous]." I thought this was an interesting irony, but aside from that, I could be inclined to believe that the "bad" UFOs are essentially the work of these "bad angels" but at the same time it would be illogical to rule out the possibility that there are *also* "good angels" and "good UFOs." It seems pretty clear that God interacts with people (Biblically speaking), on the same level. He ate dinner with Abraham, wrestled fairly (to start) with Jacob, whom was then named "Israel...for you have wrestled with God." ("Israel" means "to wrestle with God.") He taught Israel to be strong against her enemies, sent Jesus to deal on man's level. Therefore, why wouldn't the "Kingdom of God" send good peoplein good ships to fight against the bad ones? Just as God cannot by nature violate the moral principles that God has established, neither can God violate the physical principles that exist. Any perceived "miracle" is not a violation but is an application within the laws of nature (which we may or may not understand.) Finally, one can wonder. In Acts, when Jesus "ascended," it was said in the King James Version, "a cloud RECEIVED HIM out of their sight." Rather than going on here...I think I'll post a list of "cloud verses." JP Xref: icaen alt.config:10083 alt.alien.visitors:9711 alt.conspiracy:18522 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!panix!gcf From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: Proposal: alt.alien.invaders Message-ID: <1992Sep26.155042.23089@panix.com> Date: 26 Sep 92 15:50:42 GMT References: <1992Sep26.005520.13772@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: mydog in exile Lines: 9 In article <1992Sep26.005520.13772@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> klein@frith.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes: | I propose the group alt.alien.invaders, | because they're not just visiting. Yes? And how do _you_ know, hmmm? -- )*( Gordon Fitch )*( gcf@panix.com )*( ( 1238 Blg. Grn. Sta., NY NY 10274 * 718.273.5556 ) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!news.Brown.EDU!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: TALK WITH ALIENS! (Sure you can try!!!) Message-ID: <1992Sep26.202735.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Date: 26 Sep 92 17:48:16 GMT References: <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News admin) Organization: University of Turku, Finland Lines: 18 In article <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, T.ORG (David Grant) writes: > Believe me when I say that I am not trying to be a twit.... > But I really would like to meet some ALIENS... Maybe take a ride on a > flying saucer.... > > David Grant - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Sure you can try :) > Sometimes we make a joking that the mystry f UFO and Aliens like > some kind of relogion. Many people haven't seen any trace about > UFO and Aliens themself, but they're realy faith on it. > > It's interesting to talk about that. You can say that Aliens and > never exist in this world cause nobody will show you any offical > evidence except those legendry fiction movie ... > > But if somebody raly believe it. It's realy not a dream ... >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9713 talk.bizarre:75753 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_* Message-ID: <1992Sep26.213931.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Date: 26 Sep 92 19:07:02 GMT References: <1992Sep17.101334.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <1992Sep20.154147.8926@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Sender: news@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News admin) Organization: University of Turku, Finland Lines: 19 In article <1992Sep20.154147.8926@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ( stuff deleted ) > This is my favourite posting of the week. > Jason >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Thank you, Resse. You will see more hose your favourite stuffs in > the comn week !!! Next week we plan to go to sahara. But dont be > frighten by it :) We find a jeep, plenty of water, a TV and good > guide of course ... > > So just hope maybe this time will be Ok !!! > > We are about to look for some historical site where it's said a UFO > had crashed there. > > So talk to you all tomorrow !!! >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11905 alt.alien.visitors:9714 sci.skeptic:31552 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!rjp1 From: rjp1@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (be here now) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:20:53 GMT Message-ID: <1992Sep26.192053.15449@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 30 )Subject: Baby Talk. )A few years back I used to have a teacher and Guru called Merele. He's now )dead. A lot of things he would tell me were hard to believe. When he would )try to tell me something that was very hard for me to believe he would cry. Pass on oxide rats go unless yogi. Drain oxide nutation onto the bacon Ears lifting in exercise Verily edificed hanging in Mexico. )This last week I saw where Sara Inserra has started talking at 20 minutes )old. The first thing that she said was to tell the nurse to take her to her )mother because she wanted to give her a message from her grandmother (Nana). ) )She says she was chosen as a volunteer to bring God's message of hope to )the world. God loves us all and we will all be in Heaven with Him sooner )or later. )So what do you think folks would a 20 minute old kid lie? )John Winston. Nevertheless overlord, the Hymn articulates tragedy scenes and fondles inert babes! Likewise in sterile tubular excressence notice.. Cautiously or yiddish or temporary excavator intrudes somewhere next establishing a ratty bisexual yogurt... -- Bob Pietkivitch | "Moon, my long lost friend, is smiling from above." rjp1@ihspa.att.com | -- Genesis, Stagnation 1970 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: *_-_*_UFO_in_Alps_*_-_* Message-ID: <1992Sep26.222953.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Date: 26 Sep 92 19:38:34 GMT References: <1992Sep17.101334.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <1992Sep23.143454.24531@ctp.com> Sender: news@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News admin) Organization: University of Turku, Finland Lines: 40 In article <1992Sep23.143454.24531@ctp.com>, denys@ctp.com (Denys Chen) writes: > In article <1992Sep17.101334.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>, shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi writes: > |> > |> > |> Helleo, folks > |> > |> We've enjoied a nice tour in Alps. Last night we come back by train > ... > |> > |> Ha, nice to talk with everyone here. Have a nice day !!! > |> > |> IMHO, I am learning how to process film now 8-) > > So ??? What's your point ????*_-_*_..^#?%$*^.@!<%)... > > Let me make your article making sense : > > The next thing you want to do after learning processing film is > getting those pictures scanned and post them on the > alt.binaries.pictures.misc news group. > > PS. FYI, next time you go to the Alps, don't take train. Instead, a cheaper > and faster way is by taking the route 254 bus from Taipei. You can get on > to the route 254 bus at the Tai-Ta (Taiwan University) stop on Roosevelt > Rd. section 3. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hmmm ... my dear friend. I look for you in the weekend but you are > not there! Neither Route 254 bus statin nor Roosevelt Rd. section 3 > Do you know how dipointed I am ?!?!?! I hold a branch of flower and > stand in the street for 20 minutes :( > > So I wonder if you are an alien ??? :) > > Please don't flame at me. I aways pay best regards to Aliens !!! > > Nice to know you, have fun !!! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!caen!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!madsendean From: madsendean@bvc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 1/6 Message-ID: <1992Sep26.141922.2087@bvc.edu> Date: 26 Sep 92 14:19:22 CDT Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA Lines: 520 Hi, After observing this group for sometime now I finally ran across a file that may be of interest to others in this newsgroup. The file is the Blue Book of Unknows, which will be split up into six parts due to its length. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE BLUE BOOK UNKNOWNS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The unexplained UFO reports from the files of the U.S. Air Force's Project Blue Book UFO investigations. Compiled by Don Berliner, for the Fund for UFO Research ~~~~~~~~~~~~ the conclusions or views expressed in this publication are the views of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Fund for UFO Research, Inc. THE UNEXPLAINED UFO CASES FROM THE PROJECT BLUE BOOK FILES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In January, 1974, I visited the U.S. Air Force Archives at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, Ala., to review the files of Project Blue Book as the first step toward writing a book on the subject. In a full week, I read all the "unexplained" cases in the original files and made extensive notes, including the names and other identifying information on all witnesses where given. The cooperation of the staff of the Archives was excellent, and no restrictions were placed on my work. A few months later, the files were withdrawn from public view so they could be prepared for transfer to the National Archives in Washington, D.C. This process involved making a xerox copy of almost 30 file drawers of material, blacking out the names and other identifiers of all witnesses, and then microfilming the censored xerox copy. The microfilm has been available to the public at the National Archives since 1976. The original Project Blue Book files remain under lock and key at the Archives. On almost every page of the 12,000+ case files, there are big black marks where information that could be used to cross-check Project Blue Book's controversial work has been censored. This includes the names of witnesses to widely-publicized cases, and even names in newspaper clippings! As it was perfectly legal for me to copy witness' names when I visited the Air Force Archives, those names can be found in this report of 585 (less 13 missing) unexplained cases. And since the Privacy Act, which motivated the Air Force to censor the files in the first place, does not apply to reporters or anyone else outside the Government, they can be used as the reader pleases. Inasmuch as the book I planned to write has never progressed beyond the manuscript stage, I see no reason to keep this information under wraps any longer. Perhaps it will encourage others to re-investigate cases and make the results known. "Unidentified" says a great deal...and it says almost nothing. Probably the most controversial aspect of the entire Air Force investigation of UFOs was its handling of individual cases. The means by.which one case was determined to be "identified" and another "unidentified" has no doubt fueled more arguments about Project Blue Book than anything else it did. For many years, Blue Book's most vocal opponents have insisted that the standards by which cases were allegedly explained were grossly unscientific. Blue Book's goal, according to those who held it low esteem, was to attach some explanation to every case, regardless of logic or common sense. Examples of Blue Book saying a violently maneuvering disc was an aircraft, or of blaming a puzzling radar tracking on a supposedly malfunctioning radar set which it never bothered to check out, are numerous in the popular UFO literature. And they are even more numerous in the files of Project Blue Book. The urgency with which Blue Book officials tagged answers onto cases without having done the proper investigation is obvious, though not proven. But if the Air Force was so eager to label cases "identified", despite the lack of supporting evidence, then those few cases which it labeled "unidentified" presumably withstood every attempt to apply every other kind of label. And so it may be that those cases are truly unidentifiable in familiar terms. Indeed, the Air Force defines "unidentifiable" cases as those which "apparently contain all pertinent data necessary to suggest a valid hypothesis concerning the lack of explanation of the report, but the description of the object or its motion cannot be correlated with any known object or phenomenon." To meet such criteria, a report must obviously come from a reputable source, and it must not bear any resemblance to airplanes, balloons, helicopters, spacecraft, birds, clouds, stars, planets, meteors, comets, electrical phenomena, or anything else known to frequent the air, the sky, or nearby space. Unfortunately, the Air Force failed to stick to its own rules. Some of the "unidentifiable" cases most certainly can be correlated with known objects or phenomena. But most of them cannot. Moreover, many of the so-called "identified" cases cannot honestly be so correlated. But we are primarily concerned here with those cases which Project Blue Book openly admits it tried to explain and failed. The amount of detail in these cases varies enormously. Some cases - frequently those which were well publicized at the time of the event - contain considerable information, while others are vague and seriously incomplete. Project Blue Book generally placed the blame for such incompleteness on the witnesses, but it should take its own share of the responsibility. 'In thousands of cases, there is no completed questionnaire in the Project files, nor even any indication that one was sent to the witness. And in most of the instances where a questionnaire was filled out, it was never followed up to get more complete answers to questions which the witnesses failed to deal with properly. For much of the life of Project Blue Book and its predecessors, there was no satisfactory.questionnaire at all. And one of those used for a lengthy period was so badly organized that a witness should not be held to blame for giving incomplete answers. Yet, despite all the roadblocks, many reports are sufficiently complete to tell a pretty clear story of a puzzling experience. With this data now available, anyone can look at Project Blue Book's "unidentified" UFO reports and make up his own mind. July 3, 1947; Harborside, Maine. 2:30 p.m. EDT. Witness: astronomer John Cole of South Brooksville, Me. Watched 10-15 seconds while ten very light objects, with two dark forms to their left, moved like a swarm of bees to the northwest. A loud roar was heard. July 4, 1947; over Emmet, Idaho. 8:17 p.m. PDT. Witnesses: United Air Lines Capt. E.J. Smith, First Officer Ralph Stevens, Stewardess Marty Morrow. Watched for 12-15 minutes while four objects with flat bottoms and rough tops moved at varying speeds, with one high and to the right of the others. July 6, 1947; Fairfield-Suisan Air Base, California. Daytime. Witnesses: Army Air Forces Capt. and Mrs. James Burniston. Watched for 1 minute while one object having no wings or tail rolled from side-to-side three times and then flew away very fast to the southeast. July 8, 1947; Muroc Air Base, California. 9:30 a.m. PDT. Witnesses: lst Lt. Joseph McHenry, T/Sgt Ruvolo, S/Sgt Nauman, Miss Janette Scotte. Watched for an unstated length of time while two disc-shaped or spherical objects--silver and apparently metallic--flew a wide circular pattern, and then one of them later flew a tighter circle. July 9, 1947; Meridian, Idaho. 12:17 p.m. PDT. Witness: Idaho statesman aviation editor and former (AAF) B-29 pilot Dave Johnson. Watched for more than 10 seconds from an Idaho Air National Guard AT-6 while a black disc, which stood out against the clouds, made a half-roll and then a stair-step climb. July 10, 1947; Harmon Field, Newfoundland, Canada. Between 3 and 5 p.m. local time. Witnesses: three ground crewmen, including Mr. Leidy, for Pan American Airways. Watched briefly while one translucent disc- or wheel-shaped object flew very fast, leaving a dark blue trail and then ascended and cut a path through the clouds. July 29, 1947; Hamilton Air Base, California. 2:50 p.m. PDT. Witnesses: Assistant Base Operations Officer Capt. William Rhyerd, ex-AAF B-29 pilot Ward Stewart. Watched for unknown length of time while two round, shiny, white objects with estimated 15-25 foot diameters, flew 3-4 times the apparent speed of a P-80, also in sight. One object flew straight and level; the other weaved from side-to-side like an escort fighter. Sept. 3, 1947; Oswego, Oregon. 12:15 p.m. PDT. Witness: housewife Mrs. Raymond Dupui. Watched for unknown length of time as 12-15 round, silver objects flew an unstated pattern. Oct., 1947; Dodgeville, Wisconsin. 11 unnamed civilian man. Watched for 1 hour while an undescribed object flew counterclockwise circles. Oct. 14, 1947; 11 mi. NNE of Cave Creek, Arizona. Noon MDT. Witnesses: ex-AAF fighter pilot J.L. Clark, civilian pilot Anderson, third man. Watched 45-60 seconds while one 3-foot "flying wing"-shaped object, which looked black against the white clouds and red against the blue sky, flew straight at an estimated 380 m.p.h., at 8-10,000 feet, from NW to SE. April 5, 1948; Holloman AFB, New Mexico. Afternoon. Witnesses: Geophysics Lab balloon observers Alsen, Johnson, Chance. Two irregular, round, white or golden objects. One made three loops then rose and disappeared rapidly; the other flew in a fast arc to the west during the 3O^second sighting. July 29, 1948: Indianapolis, Indiana. 9:88 a.m. witness*: James Toney, Robert Huggins, both employees of a rug cleaning firm. One shiny aluminum object, shaped something like an airplane's propeller, with 10-12 small cups protruding from either blade. Estimated size 6-8' long, 1.5-2' wide. The object glided across the road a few hundred feet in front of their vehicle and apparently went down in a wooded area. Sighting lasted a few seconds. July 31, 1948; Indianapolis, Indiana. 8:25 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Vernon Swigert; he was an electrician. Object was shaped like a cymbal, or domed disc; about 20' across and 6-8' thick, and was white without any shine. It flew straight and level from horizon to horizon in about 10 seconds, shimmering in the sun as if spinning. July or August, 1948; vicinity of Marion, Virginia. Shortly after sunset. Witness: Max Abbott, flying a Bellanca Cruisair four-passenger private airplane. A single bright white light accelerated and turned up a valley. Sept. 23, 1948; San Pablo, California. 12 noon. Witnesses: Sylvester Bentham and retired U.S. Army Col. Horace Eakins. Two objects: one, a buff or grey rectangle with vertical lines; the other a translucent "amoeba" with a dark spot near the center. The arms of the "amoeba" undulated. Both objects travelled very fast. Oct. 15, 1948; Fusuoka, Japan. 11:05 p.m. Witnesses: pilot Halter and radar operator Hemphill of a P-61 "Black Widow" night fighter. Up to six objects tracked on radar, only one seen visually. Dull or dark object shaped like a dirigible with a flat bottom and clipped tail end. Six seen on radar separately Pilot attempted to close on visual object, but it dove away fast. Dec. 3, 1948; Fairfield-Suisan AFB, California. 8:15 p.m. Witness: USAF Sgt., control tower operator. One round, white light flew for 25 seconds with varying speed, bouncing motion, and finally a rapid erratic climb. Jan. 4, 1949; Hickam Field, Hawaii. 2 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Capt. Paul Storey, on ground. one flat white, elliptical object with a matte top circled while oscillating to the right and left, and then sped away. Jan. 27, 1949; Cortez-Bradenton, Florida. 10:20 p.m. Witnesses: Capt. Sames, acting chief of the Aircraft Branch, Eglin AFB, and Mrs. Sames. They watched for 25 minutes while a cigar-shaped object as long as two Pullman cars and having seven lighted square windows and throwing sparks, descended and then climbed with a bouncing motion at an estimated 400 m.p.h. March 17, 1949; Camp Hood, Texas. 7:52 p.m. Witnesses: guards of the 2nd Armored Division. While awaiting the start of a flare firing, they watched, for an hour, while eight large, green, red and white flare-like objects flew in generally straight lines. April 3, 1949; Dillon, Montana. 11:55 a.m. Witnesses: construction company owner Gosta Miller and three other unnamed persons. One object shaped like two plates attached face-to-face; matte bottom, bright aluminum top; 20' diameter, 4-5' thickness. It rocked or rotated in six cycles, descended, rocked, flew, rocked; all this was very fast. April 4, 1949; Merced, California. 10:20 p.m. witness: William Parrott, former Air Force pilot and major. One generally round object with a curved bottom and dull coloring. The object gave off a clicking sound until overhead. Parrott's dog reacted. 35 seconds. April 24, 1949; Arrey, New Mexico. l0:30 a.m. Witnesses: General Mills meteorologist and balloon expert C.B. Moore and others on a balloon launch crew. One white, round ellipsoid, about 2.5 times as long as wide. April 28, 1949; Tucson, Arizona. 5:45 p.m. Witnesses: Howard Hann, Mr. Hubert, Tex Keahey. One bright, sausage-shaped object was observed for 40 minutes while it rolled and flew fast. May 5, 1949; Ft. Bliss, Texas. 11:40 a.m. Witnesses: Army officers Maj. Day, Maj. Olhausen, Capt. Vaughn. Two oblong white discs, flying at an estimated 200-250 m.p.h., made a shallow turn during the 30-50 second observation. May 6, 1949; Livermore, California. 9:35 a.m. Witness: C. G. Green. Two shiny, disc-like objects rotated around each other and banked. Then one shot upwards with a grey trail and rejoined the other. The sighting lasted 5 minutes. May 9, 1949; Tucson, Arizona. 2:30 p.m. Witness: M/Sgt. Troy Putnam. Two round, flat silvery objects, estimated to be 25' in diameter, flew 750-1,000 m.p.h. in a banked but steady manner. May 27, 1949; South-central Oregon. 2:25 p.m. Witness: Joseph Shell, ferrying SNJ trainer for North American Aviation, from Red Bluff, California, to Burns, Oregon. Five to eight oval objects, twice as long as wide, and 1/5 as thick. They flew in trail formation, with an interval equal to 3-4 times their length, except that the second and third were closer together. July 24, 1949; Mountain Home, Idaho. 12 noon. Witness: Henry Clark, manager of a flying service, flying a Piper Clipper. Seven delta-shaped objects, 35-55' in span, 20-30' long, 2-5' thick; light colored except for a 12' diameter dark circle at the rear of each. They flew in a tight formation of twos with one behind, and made a perfect, but unbanked, turn. During the 10 minute sighting, they displayed decreasing smooth oscillations. Clark's engine ran rough during the sighting, and upon landing was found to have all its spark plugs burned out. July 30, 1949; Mt. Hood, Oregon. 9 p.m. Witnesses: Northwest Airlines Capt. Thrush, two Portland control tower operators, and one flying instructor. One object with one white light and two red lights, maneuvered and hovered. Feb 5, 1950; Teaticket, Massachusetts. 5:10 p.m. Witnesses: Marvin Odom, former U.S. Navy fighter pilot, USAF Lt. Philip Foushee, pilot from Otis AFB, and two others. Two thin, illuminated cylinders, one of which dropped a fireball, maneuvered together and then disappeared high and fast after 5 minutes. Feb. 24, 1950; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 1:55 p.m. Witnesses: Municipal Airport Weather Observers Luther McDonald, Harrison Manson. One white, slightly elongated oval was watched for 1.5 minutes through a theodolite while it flew straight and level. Feb. 25, 1950; Los Alamos, New Mexico. 3:55 p.m. Witnesses: Twelve Atomic Energy Commission security inspectors. One cylinder with tapered ends, silver and flashing, flew slow and hen fast, fluttered and oscillated, and changed course. observations by individuals varied from 3 seconds to 2 minutes. arch 3, 1950; Selfridge AFB, Michigan. 11:05 p.m. Witness: st Lt Frank Mattson. One intense, dull yellowish light descended vertically, then flew straight and level very fast for 4 minutes. March 20, 1950; Stuggart, Arkansas. 9:26 p.m. Witnesses: Chicago & Southern Airlines Capt. Jack Adams, First Officer G. W. Anderson, Jr. One 100' circular disc with 9-12 portholes along the lower side emitting a soft purple light, and a light at the top which flashed 3 times in 9 seconds, flew at not less than 1,000 m.p.h. It was seen for 25-35 seconds. March 27, 1980; Motobo, Okinawa. 10:30 a.m. Witness: USAF radar operator Cpl. Bolfango. Tracked on radar for 2 minutes while it was stationary and then moved at 500 m.p.h.. Visual observation not detailed, only mentioned in summary. March 28, 1950; Santiago, Chile. 3:15 p.m. Witness: M/Sgt. Patterson, of the office of the U.S. Air Attache. One white object observed for 5-10 seconds through binoculars while it flew high and fast, crossing 30^ of sky. March 29, 1950; Marrowbore Lake, Tennessee. 7 a.m. Witnesses: real estate salesmen Whiteside and Williams. Six-twelve dark objects shaped like 300-lb. bombs, estimated 5 feet long. Flew 500 m.p.h. and descended, making a noise like wind blowing through the trees. April 8, 1950; Kokomo, Indiana. 2 a.m. Witness: Earl Baker. One grey metallic disc, 50' in diameter, 15' thick; top-shaped with a "conning tower" at the top and three ports on the rim giving off a blue light. It hovered for 2 minutes, then flew away. Baker aroused from sleep by his dog. April 14, 1950; Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey. 2:30 p.m. Witness: Army M/Sgt. James. Four rectangular, amber objects, about 3' by 4'. changed speed and direction rapidly; the group of objects rose and fell during the 3-4 minute sighting. May 7, 1950; Nine miles sough of Ely, Nevada. 6:45 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. George Smith and their grandson. One silvery white object hovered at 100' altitude, moved back and forth for 10 minutes and then flew up and away. Note in case file: "No investigation." June 27, 1950; Texarkana, Texas. 7:50 a.m. Witnesses: Terrell and Yates, employees of Red River Arsenal. One object, bright, shaped like two dishpans face-to-face, flew straight and level, fast for 4-5 seconds. July 13, 1950; Redstone Arsenal, Alabama. 5 p.m. Witnesses: two skilled Arsenal employees including Mr. Washburn. one object, shaped like a bowtie, and like polished aluminum. Flew straight and level, then one triangle rotated 1/4 turn in the opposite direction and returned to its original position. The object then made a right-angle turn and accelerated away after at least 30 seconds. Aug. 4, 1950; approx. 100 mi. SE of New York City (39' 35' N., 72' 24.5' W.). 10 a.m. EDT. Witnesses: Master Nils Lewring, Chief Mate Jacob Koelwyn, Third Mate, of M/V Marcala. One 10' cylindrical object at 50-100' altitude, flying with a churning or rotary motion, accelerated at end of 15 second sighting. Aug. 20, 1950; Nicosia, Cyprus. 1:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF MATS liaison officer Lt. William Ghormley, Col. W. V. Brown, Lt. col. L.w. Brauer. One small, round, bright object flew fast, straight and level for 15-20 seconds. Aug. 25, 1950; approx. 250 mi. SW of Bermuda (29' 40' N., 67* 28' W.). 8 p.m. Witness: B-29 radarman S/Sgt. William Shaffer. Radar observation, plus possible blue streak 3 minutes later. B-29 followed unidentified target, then passed it at l/4-mile distance, target followed for 5 minutes, then passed B-29 and sped away. Total time of tracking: 20 minutes. Aug. 30, 1950; Sandy Point, Newfoundland, Canada. 1:30 p.m. Witnesses: three local employees, including Kaeel and Alexander, of the Air Force Base. A dark, barrel-shaped object with a pole down from it into the water, flew at 3-5 m.p.h. and 15-20' altitude for 5 minutes. Sept. 3, 1950; Spokane, Washington. 2 p.m. Witnesses: Maj R.J. Gardiner, Mrs. Gardiner and neighbor (former saw three objects, others saw one). Metallic bronze discs, 20-30' long, 2-6' thick. Moved independently and erratically for 5 minutes. Sept. 20, 1950; Kit Carson, Colorado. 10:49 a.m. Witness identified only as a "reliable source". Two large, round, glowing objects and three smaller, internally lit objects. Two hovered for 1 minute, moved, and three smaller ones came from behind or within the two larger objects, and all sped upward and away. Sept. 21, 1950; Provincetown, Massachusetts. 9:52 a.m. Witness: M.I.T. research associate and Air National Guard Maj. M.H. Ligda. Radar tracking of one object during M.I.T tracking of USAF flight of F-84 or F-86 jet fighters. Object speed was 22 miles/minute (l,200 m.p.h.), made turn of 11-12 gs acceleration during 1 minute observation. Oct. 15, 1950; Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 3:20 p.m. Atomic Energy Commission Trooper Rymer, J. Moneymaker, Capt. Zarzecki. Two shiny silver objects shaped like bullet or bladder. They dove with a smoke trail and one vanished. The other hovered at 5-6, altitude, 50' away, left and returned several times somewhat further away. Oct. 15, 1950; Pope AFB, North Carolina. Witness: Daniel. Listed as "unidentified" in folder index, but no supporting data could be found. Oct 15, 1950; Pope AFB, North Carolina. Witness: Woodward. Same as previous observation. Oct. 23, 1950; Bonlee, North Carolina. 12:42 p.m. Witness: ex-USAF pilot Frank Risher. One aluminum object shaped like a dirigible or Convair C-99 cargo plane, with 3 portholes, arrived from southeast, hovered 3-5 seconds and flew away to the south- south-east at end of 40 second sighting. Nov. 5, 1950, Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 11:55 a.m. Witness: Fairchild Aircraft illustrator Don Patrick. One translucent object, light grey with dark core, shaped like a pear or bean. Flew for 5-10 minutes with rapid, darting movements. Dec. 2, 1950; Nanyika, Kenya. 10:50 a.m. Mr. and Mrs. L. Scott. One pearly, iridescent object with a flattened top, spun while hovering and made a sound like bees buzzing. Only data in files was from East African "Standard" newspaper. Dec. 6, 1950; Ft. Myers, Florida. 5 p.m. Witnesses: former aircraft purchasing agent Harry Lamp and four boys, using lO-power binoculars. One 75' object, 3-4' thick, bubble on top, silver with a red rim having two white and two orange jets along it. The center revolved when the object hovered; then it flew away very fast. Dec. 11, 1950; l0 mi. NW of Gulcana, Alaska. 10:13 p.m. Witnesses: crew of Northwest Air Lines flight 802. Two white flashes, followed by a dark cloud which rose and split in two. Jan. 8, 1951; South of Ft. Worth, Texas. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. W.J. Boggus, plus unidentified drivers and passengers in other cars stopped to watch. Two groups of red and green lights in triangular formations were stationary and then moved. Jan. 12, 1951, Ft. Benning, Georgia. 10 p.m. Witness: U.S. Army 2nd Lt. A.C. Hale. One light with a fan-shaped wake remained motionless like a star about 20 minutes and then sped away. Jan 16, 1951; Artesia, New Mexico. Time unknown. Witnesses: Two members of a balloon project from the General Mills . Aeronautical Research Laboratory, the manger of the Artesia Airport, and three pilots. The balloon crew was observing their 110' balloon at an altitude of 112,000' when a dull white, round object was spotted. It appeared larger than the balloon, but made no movement. Later, the balloon crew and the others saw two objects from the airport; flying side-by-side, they circled the balloon and flew away to the northeast. The second observation lasted about 40 seconds. Note: there is confusion over the date of this case, with some USAF records showing it as 1952; however, 1951 appears to be correct. Feb. 1, 1951; Johnson Air Base, Japan. 5:10 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of F-82 night fighter. One amber light made three or four 360* turns to the right, reversed toward the F-82 and then climbed out of sight. Feb. 21, 1951; Durban, South Africa. 4:55 a.m. Witnesses: three men in a truck, several other persons, none named. A dark red, torpedo-shaped object with darker center, flew straight and level. Feb. 26, 1951; Ladd AFB, Alaska. 7:10 a.m. Witness: USAF Sgt. J.B. Sells. One dull grey, metallic object, estimated to be 120' long and 10-12' thick, hovered, puffed smoke and sped away after 1-1.5 minutes. Note: may have been Feb. 25. Mar. 10, 1951; Chinnampo, Korea. 9:51 a.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF B-29 bomber, including scanners and tail gunner. A large red-yellow glow burst and became blue-white. No further information in files. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*++++++++++++++++++++++ + * * ****** ****** * * ***** + + Dean Madsen, KE0WO * * * * ** * * * * + + Inet: madsendean@bvc.edu * * * * * * * * * * * + + * * **** * * * * * * * * * + + Packet: * * * ** * * * * * + +KE0WO @ KE0WO.#NWIA.IA.USA.NA* * ****** ****** * * ***** + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11906 alt.alien.visitors:9717 sci.skeptic:31558 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!stl!bnrgate!nrcnet0!cunews!revcan!micor!uuisis!bbs From: doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: 26 Sep 92 12:28:29 GMT References: <66617@cup.portal.com> Sender: bbs@uuisis.isis.org Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa) Lines: 61 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > So what do you think folks would a 20 minute old kid lie? Well, since a 20 minute old kid hasn't got the brain development or miscle tone to talk on her own we could ask who was talking through this person? Nor would a 20 minute old kid, normally, have the moral awareness sufficient to discern the difference between a lie and truthful statement, let alone the linguistic mastery to make any statement at all! Religious traditions contain a number of talkes of spiritual beings (like God, for example) talking through animals who normally have neither the brain development nor the physical apparatus to 'talk'. So while I'd consider it possible, if somewhat remarkable and miraculous, for a 20 minute old child to say anything that was coherent and comprehensible, in terms of whether it was a lie or not, you gotta ask where it's coming from and all that and not jump to the conclusion that the child in question is simply describing a recent experience in the way that you or I might 'normally' describe something we recently saw. Everything about this story is remarkable: the age of the speaker, the content of the speech, the context of the speaking. So we really can't understand it in the 'normal' way can we? Can a 20 minute old child lie? Well, can a 20 minute old child speak? The normal answers would be NO and NO. But this isn't 'normal' eh? Therefore, on the assumption that the objective facts as reported are correct, and that no other significant facts have been left out of the story, I'd say we have an extraordinary phenomenon which would require an extraordinary explanation because in the ordinary scheme of things the whole tale is 'impossible'. Personally I find nothing in the story to lead me to believe or disbelieve the veracity of the content here any more than your average 'impossible statement' story. Actually I'd like to know the rest of the story. Did this child speak only once at age 20 minutes and then lose the ability to speak? Or did she go on talking about experiences of a pre-birth experience? Is there anything else remarkable or unusual about this child to suggest that she herself possesses extraordinary abilities commensurate with this tale? What of the parents and other family members? What do they think of this and what effect has the unusual event had on their lives? All of these questions, and a good many more, would have to be weighed before I would be prepared to say anything beyond "I don't know" to the question "would a 20 minute old kid lie?". =Doug ---------------------------------------------------------------------- UUCP: uunet.ca!uuisis.isis.org!doug Voice: 613-722-4724 DNS: doug@uuisis.isis.org, doug@uuisis.UUCP, doug@isishq.fidonet.org SKAN Communications Inc POST: P.0. Box 3041, Stn C., Ottawa, K1Y 4J3, CANADA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.bizarre:75759 alt.alien.visitors:9718 Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) Subject: sci-fi channel Message-ID: Sender: news@phage.cshl.org Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:34:31 GMT Lines: 10 for some unknown reason the sci-fi channel is on and here's something i learned: if you concentrate on the little planet in the lower right hand side you enter another dimension. -- -- Pat Monardo -- pjm@cshl.org -- love that Circle K Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!madsendean From: madsendean@bvc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 2/6 Message-ID: <1992Sep26.230752.2099@bvc.edu> Date: 26 Sep 92 23:07:52 CDT Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA Lines: 507 Mar. 13, 1951; McClellan AFB, California. 3:20 p.m. Witnesses: USAF lst Lt. B.J. Hastie, Mrs. Rafferty. A cylinder with twin tails, 200' long and 90' wide, turned north and flew at incredible speed. Two minutes. Mar. 15, 1951; New Delhi, India. 10:20 a.m. Witnesses: 25 members of a flying club, including the chief aerial engineer and his two assistants. One metallic cigar-shaped object with white exhaust which turned black when it accelerated to an estimated 1,000 m.p.h. and made a large loop. Seven minutes. June 1, 1951; Niagara Falls, New York. 4:20 a.m. Witnesses: M/Sgt H.E. Sweeney, 2 enlisted men. One glowing yellow-orange, saucer-shaped object with arc-shaped wings, flew straight up. Seen for 30-40 seconds. July 24, 1951; Portsmouth, New Hampshire. 7:10 Witnesses: Hanscom AFB Operations Officer Capt. Cobb, Cpl. Fein. One 100-200' tubular object, 5 times long as it was wide, with fins at one end, and colored greyish with many black spots. Flew 800-1,000 m.p.h. at 1-2,000' altitude, leaving a faint swath. 20 seconds. Aug. 25, 1951; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 9:58 p.m. Witnesses: Sandia Base Security Guard Hugh Young and wife. A flying wing- shaped craft passed over their heads at an estimated 800-1,000' altitude with no sound. Size estimated at 1.5 times wingspan of B-36 bomber,or 350'. Dark, chordwise stripes on underside, and 6-8 pairs of soft, glowing lights on trailing edge of "wing". Speed estimated at 300-400 m.p.h., object seen for about 30 seconds. Aug. 31, ; Matador, Texas. 12:45 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. Tom Tilson, one or two other women, all apparently of excellent reputations. One pear-shaped object with a length of a B-29 fuselage (100'), aluminum or silver with a port or some type of aperture on the side. It moved with smaller end forward, drifting slowly at about 150' altitude, then headed up in a circular fashion and out of sight after a few seconds. Sept. 6, 1951; Claremont, California. 7:20 p.m. (not really clear). Witnesses: S/Sgt W.T. Smith, M/Sgt L.L. Duel (?). Six orange lights in an irregular formation, flew straight and level into a coastal fog bank after 3-4 minutes. Sept. 14, 1951; Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: T/Sgt W.B. Maupin, Cpl. J.W. Green. Three objects tracked on radar. Two were on a collision course, then one evaded to the right upon the request, by radio, of one of the radar operators! No aircraft were known to be in the area. A third unidentified track then joined the first two. More than 15 minutes. Oct. 2, 1951; Columbus, Ohio. 6 p.m. Witness: Battelle Memorial Institute graduate physicist Howard Cross. One bright oval with a clipped tail flew straight and level, fading into the distance after 1 minute. Oct. 3, 1951; Kadena, Okinawa. 10:27 p.m. Witnesses: radar operators Sgt. M.W. Watson and Pvt. Gonzales and one other Sergeant. One large, sausage-shaped blip tracked at an estimated 4,800 m.p.h. Oct. 9, 1951; Terre Haute, Indiana. 1:42 p.m. Witness: CAA Chief Aircraft Communicator Roy Messmore at Hulman Municipal Airport. One round silver object flew directly overhead, reaching the horizon in 15 seconds. Note: a very similar incident happened 3 minutes later near Paris, Illinois (15 miles NW) and was also listed as "unidentified" for several years, but was eventually reclassified. Oct. 11, 1951; Minneapolis, Minnesota. 6:30 a.m. Witnesses: General Mills balloon researchers, including aeronautical engineer J.J. Kaliszewski, aerologist C.B. Moore, pilot Dick Reilly in the air, and Doug Smith on the ground. The flight crew saw the first object, a brightly glowing one with a dark underside and a halo around it. The object arrived high and fast, then slowed and made slow climbing circles for about two minutes, and finally sped away to the east. Soon they saw another one, confirmed by ground observers using a theodolite, which sped across the sky. Total time first object was seen was 5 minutes, second was a few seconds. Nov. 18, 1951; Washington, D.C. 3:20 a.m. Witnesses: Crew of Capital Airlines DC-4 Fliqht 610, Andrews AFB Senior air traffic controller Tom Selby. One object with several lights, followed the DC-4 for about 20 minutes and then turned back. Nov. 24, 1951; Mankato, Minnesota. 33:53 p.m. Witnesses: USAF or ANG pilots W.H. Fairbrother and D.E. Stewart in P-51 Mustangs. One milky white object shaped like Northrop flying wing (broad, slightly swept-back wing with no fuselage or tail). Estimated 8' span. Flew straight and level for 5 seconds. Dec. 7, 1951; Sunbury, Ohio. 4:30 p.m. Witness: amateur astronomer Carl Loar. One silvery sphere seen through telescope. Two specks sighted at sides, object seemed to explode and was replaced by a dark cloud and many specks. 30 minutes. Dec. 7, 1951; Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 8:15 a.m. Witness: Atomic Energy Commission guard J.H. Collins. One 20' square object, white-grey but not shiny flew above ridge to clouds and back again twice, taking 30-40 seconds each time. Feb. 11, 1952; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 3 a.m. Witnesses: Capt. G.P. Arns and Maj. R.J. Gedson flying a Beech AT-ll trainer. One yellow-orange comet-shaped object pulsed flame for 1-2 seconds of a 1 minute straight and level flight. Feb. 23, 1952; over North Korea. 11:15 p.m. Witness: Captain/B-29 navigator. One bluish cylinder, three times long as wide, with a tail and rapid pulsations, came in high and fast, made several turns and levelled out under B-29 which was evading mild antiaircraft fire. 45 second sighting. March 20, 1952; Centreville, Maryland. 10:42 p.m. Witnesses: WWl/WW2 veteran A.D. Hutchinson and son. One dull orange-yellow saucer-shaped light flew straight and level very fast for 30 seconds. March 23, 1952; Yakima, Washington. 6:56 and 7 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of F-94 jet interceptor. On either occasion, a red fireball increased in brightness and then faded over 45 second span. Stationary both times. Note: Project Blue Book Status Report #7 (May 31, 1952) says target was also tracked by ground radar at 78 knots (90 m.p.h.) at 22,500' and 25,000' altitude. March 24, 1952; 60 miles west of Pt. Concepcion, California. 8:45 a.m. Witnesses: B-29 navigator and radar operator. One target tracked for 20-30 seconds at estimated 3,000 m.p.h. March 29, 1952; 20 miles north of Misawa AFB, Japan. 11:20 a.m. Witness: Brigham, pilot of AT-6 trainer. One small, very thin, shiny metallic disc flew alongside the AT-6, then made a pass at an F-84 jet fighter, flipped on edge, fluttered 20' from the F-84's fuselage and flipped in the slipstream...all in 10 seconds. April 4, 1952; Duncanville, Texas. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: two radar operators of the 147th AC&W Squadron. One object was tracked for one minute by radar at an estimated 2,160 m.p.h. April 5, 1952; Phoenix, Arizona. l0:40 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. L.G. Ryan, R.L. Stokes, D. Schook. One large, dull grey circular object, followed by two more, flew straight and level at high speed. April 5, 1952; Miami, Florida. 9:15 p.m. Witnesses: L.E. VanDercar and 9 year old son. Four dark circular objects with mostly fuzzy edges, crossed face of Moon; each was half the apparent diameter of Moon. 2:59 p.m. Witness: H.L. Russell. April 6, 1952; Temple, Texas. 2:59 p. 50-75 grey-white discs changed position within formation continually, tilted in unison every 12-15 seconds during 3.8 minute sighting. April 12, 1952; North Bay, Ontario, Canada. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: Royal Canadian Air Force Warrant Officer E.H. Rossell, Flight Sgt. R. McRae. One round amber object flew fast, stopped, reversed direction, climbed away at 30' angle during a 2 minute observation. April 14, 1952; LaCrosse, Wisconsin. 12:35 p.m. Witness: unidentified CAL airline pilot. Several light colored objects flew in V-formation. No further details in files. April 14, 1952; Memphis, Tennessee. 6:34 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Navy pilots Lt. jg. Blacky, Lt. jg. O'Neil. One inverted bowl, 3' long and 1' high, with vertical slots, flew fast, straight and level, 100 yards from observers' aircraft for 45-60 seconds. April 15, 1952; Santa Cruz, California. 7:40 p.m. Witness: Mr. Hayes, brother of Master Sergeant. Two faint objects observed flying fast along the horizon for 6-8 seconds, using 20x spotting telescope. April 17, 1952; Longmeadow, Massachusetts. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: S.B. Brooks, chemical engineer J.A. Eaton. One round, deep orange object flew fast and erratic, occasionally emitting a shaft of light to the rear during a 40 minute sighting. April 17, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. 3:05 p.m. Witnesses: group of Army weather observation students, including several graduate engineers. One flat-white, circular object flew with an irregular trajectory and a brief trail, for about 7 seconds. April 18, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. Time unknown. Witnesses: two Army weather observation students. One flat-white circular object flew for 5-10 seconds in a very erratic manner. April 18, 1952; Bethesda, Maryland. l1:30 a.m. Witnesses: R. Poerstal and three other men. Seven to nine circular, orange-yellow lights in a 40^ V-formation flew overhead silently for 4-8 seconds, from south to north. April 18, 1952; Corner Brook, Newfoundland, Canada. l0:l0 p.m. Witness: reporter Chic Shave. One round, yellow-gold object flew south and returned during 1.5 minute sighting. April 18, 1952; 50 miles northwest of Kyushu, Japan (129* 51' E., 34' 19' N.). Witness: one radar operator. Tracked unidentified target for 1 minute at 2,700 m.p.h. April 18, 1952; Corner Brook, Newfoundland, Canada. 4 a.m. Witness: janitor C. Hamilton. One yellow-gold object made a sharp turn and left a short, dark trail during l minute sighting. April 22, 1952; Naha AFB, Okinawa. 99 p.m. Witnesses: crew of B-29 bomber, on ground. One elliptical object, followed by two and then another two, each with a white light that blinked every 1-2 seconds as they performed erratic maneuvers for 10 minutes. April 24, 1952; Bellevue Hill, Vermont. 5 a.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF C-124 transport plane. Three circular, bluish objects in loose "fingertip" formation twice flew parallel to airplane during 3-4 minute period. April 24, 1952; Milton, Massachusetts. 2:30 p.m. Witnesses: three Cambridge Research Center electronics engineers, one named Buruish. Two flat, red squares flew wobbly in level flight, climbed, levelled out during 1.5 minute observation. April 24, 1952; Clovis, New Mexico. 8:10 p.m. Witness: USAF light Surgeon Maj. E.L. Ellis. Many orange-amber lights, sometimes separate, sometimes fused, behaved erratically. Speed varied from motionless to very fast during 5 minute sighting. April 27, 1952; Roseville, Michigan. 4:15 p.m. Witnesses: H.A. Freytag and three male relatives, including a minister. One silver oval rolled, descended and stopped. Two silver cigar- shaped objects appeared, one departing to the east and one to the west. A third silver cigar-shaped object flew by at high speed. Sightings lasted 45 minutes. April 27, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: M/Sgt. and Mrs. G.S. Porter (he was off-duty control tower operator). Bright red or flame-colored discs, appearing as large as fighter planes. Seven sightings of one disc, one of two in formation during 2 hours. All seen below 11,000' overcast. April 29, 1952; Marshall, Texas. 3:30 p.m. Witness: private pilot R.R. Weidman. One round, white object which flew straight, with a side-to-side oscillation for 1.5 minutes. April 29, 1952; Goodland, Kansas. 100 p.m. Witness: B-29 bombardier Lt. R.H. Bauer. One white fan-shaped light pulsed 3-4 times per second for 2 seconds. May 1, 1952; Moses Lake, Washington. 5:32 a.m. Witnesses: Two Atomic Energy Commission employees, Eggan and Shipley. One silver object without wings flew straight and level for 1.5 minutes. May 1, 1952; George AFB, California. 10:50 a.m. Witnesses: three men on the arms range, plus one Lt. Colonel 4 miles away. Five flat-white discs about the diameter of a C-47's wingspan (95') flew fast, made a 90^ turn in a formation of three in front and two behind, and darted around, for 15-30 seconds. May 5, 1952; Tenafly, New Jersey. 10:45 p.m. Witness: Mrs. M.M. Judson. Six or seven translucent, cream-yellow objects. One moved in an ellipse, while the others moved in and out. May 7, 1952; Keesler AFB, Mississippi. 12:15 p.m. Witnesses: Capt. Morris, a Master Sergeant, a Staff Sergeant, and an Airman First Class. Ten times, an aluminum or silver cylindrical object was seen to dart in and out of the clouds during a 5-10 minute period. May 9, 1952; George AFB, California. 5:20 p.m. Witness: A/lc G.C. Grindeland. One dull white, arrowhead-shaped object flew straight and level for 10 seconds. May 10, 1952; Ellenton, South Carolina. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: 4 duPont employees at the Savannah River nuclear plant. Up to four yellow, disc-shaped objects were seen on five occasions between 10:45 and shortly after 11:15. May 14, 1952; Mayaquez, Puerto Rico. 7 p.m. Witnesses: Attorney and ex-USAF pilot Mr. Stipes, Sr. Garcia-Mendez. Two shining orange spheres: one was stationary, while the other darted away and back for 30 minutes. May 20, 1952; Houston, Texas. l0:l0 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilots Capt. J. Spurgin and Capt. BB. Stephan. One bright or white oval object moved from side-to-side while making a gradual turn for 90 seconds. May 25, 1952; Walnut Lake, Michigan. 9:15 p.m. Witnesses: seven persons, including John Hoffman, his family and friends. One large white circular object having dark sections on its rim, flew straight and level for 30 minutes, appearing red when behind a cloud. May 28, 1952; Saigon, French Indo China. 10:30 a.m. Witnesses: many in crowd watching a ceremony. One white-silver disc-shaped object flew straight and fast for 2 minutes. May 28, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 1:45-2:40 p.m. Witnesses: two city fire department employees. Two circular objects--one shiny silver and the other orange or light brown-- were seen three times performing fast maneuvers. May 29, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 7 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Maj. D.W. Feuerstein, on ground. One bright tubular object tilted from horizontal to vertical for 8 minutes, then slowly returned to horizontal, again tilted vertical, accelerated, appeared to lengthen and turned red. The entire sighting lasted 14 minutes. June 1, 1952; Rapid City, South Dakota. 6 p.m. Witnesses: A/lc Beatty and two civilians. At least five long silver objects flew in a neat box formation with a leader for 15-20 seconds. June 1, 1952; Walla , Washington. 1 p.m. Witness: ex-military pilot Reserve Maj. W.C. Vollendorf. One oval object with a "definite airfoil" performed a fast climb for 7 seconds. June l, 1952; Soap Lake, Washington. 3+ p.m. Witness: Ray Lottman. Three glimmering objects flew straight and level for 10 minutes. June 2, 1952; Bayview, Washington. 5:02 p.m. Witness: Larry McWade. One purple object seen for unknown length of time. No further information in files. June 2, 1952; Fulda, West Germany. Time unknown. Witness: lst Lt. John Hendry, photo-navigator on an RB-26C reconnaissance bomber. One porcelain-white object flew very fast for an unknown length of time. June 5, 1952; Lubbock, Texas. 11 p.m. Witnesses: Dan Benson, Mr. Bacon. A total of eight yellow circular objects, like large stars, were seen during 45 minutes. The first two were in a trail formation, the others were seen singly. June 5, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 6:45 p.m. Witness: S/Sgt T.H. Shorey. One shiny round object flew 5-6 times as fast as an F-86 jet fighter for 6 seconds. June 5, 1952; Offutt AFB, Omaha, Nebraska. 11 p.m. Witnesses: 2nd Lt. W.R. Soper, a Strategic Air Command top secret control officer and former OSI agent; and two other persons. One bright red object remained stationary for 4.5 minutes before speeding away with a short tail. June 6, 1952; Kimpo AFB, Korea. Case missing from official files. June 7, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 11:18 a.m. Witnesses: crew of B-25 bomber #8840 at 11,500'. One rectangular aluminum object, about 6'x4', flew 250-300' below the B-25. June 8, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 10:50 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. J.D. Markland. Four shiny objects flew straight and level in a diamond formation. June 9, 1952; Minneapolis, Minnesota. Case missing from official files. June 12, 1952; Ft. Smith, Arkansas. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Army Major and Lt. Colonel, using binoculars. One orange ball with a tail flew with a low angular velocity. June 12, 1952; Marakesch, Morocco. 11:26 a.m. Witness: T/Sgt. H.D. Adams, operating an SCR-584 radar set. One unidentified blip tracked at 650 kts. (750 m.p.h.) at greater than 60,000' altitude. June 13, 1952; Middletown, Pennsylvania. 8:45 p.m. Witness: R.S. Thomas, Olmstead AFB employee and former control tower operator. One round, orange object travelled south, stopped for 1 second, turned east, stopped 1 second, and went down. June 15, 1952; Louisville, Kentucky. 11:50 p.m. Witness: Edward Duke, ex-U.S. Navy radar technician. One large, cigar- shaped object with a blunt front, lit sides and a red stern, maneuvered in a leisurely fashion for 15 minutes. June 16, 1952; Walker AFB, New Mexico. 8:30 p.m. Witness: USAF maintenance specialist S/Sgt. Sparks. Five or six greyish discs, in a half-moon formation, flew at 500-600 m.p.h. for l minute. June 17, 1952; McChord AFB, Washington. Between 7:30 and 10:20 p.m. Witnesses: many and varied. From one to five large silver-yellow objects flew erratically, stopped and started for about 15 minutes. June 17, 1952; Cape Cod, Massachusetts. 1:28 a.m. Witness: pilot of USAF F-94 jet interceptor. A light like a bright star crossed the nose of the airplane while being observed for 15 seconds. No further information in the files. June 18, 1952; Columbus, Wisconsin. 9 a.m. Witness: R.A. Finger. One crescent-shaped object hovered for several seconds and then sped away. June 18, 1952; Walnut Lake, Michigan. 10 p.m. Witnesses: Marron Hoffman and four relatives, using 4x binoculars. One orange light was observed zigzagging and then hovering for an unspecified length of time. June 19, 1952; Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada. 2:37 a.m. Witness: 2nd Lt. A'Gostino and unidentified radar operator. One red light turned white while wobbling. Radar tracked a stationary target during the 1 minute sighting. June 19, 1952; Yuma, Arizona. 2 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot John Lane. One round, white object flew straight and level for 10 seconds. June 20, 1952; Central Korea. 3:03 p.m. Witnesses: four Marine Corps Captains and pilots of F4U-4B Corsair fighter planes. One 10-20' white or silver oval object made a left-hand orbit at terrific speed for 60 seconds. June 21, 1952; Kelly AFB, Texas. 12:30 p.m. Witness: T/Sgt. Howard Davis, flight engineer of B-29 bomber at 8,000' altitude. One flat object with a sharply pointed front and rounded rear; white with a dark blue center and red rim, trailed sparks as it dove past the B-29 at a distance of 500', in l second. June 22, 1952; Pyungthek, Korea. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: Two Marine Corps Sergeants. One 4 ft. diameter object dove at a runway shooting red flames, hovered briefly over a hill, turned 180 , flashed twice and was gone. June 23, 1952; Spokane, Washington. 4:05 p.m. Witness: Airport weather observer Rex Thompson. One round disc with a metallic shine flashed, and fluttered like a flipped coin for 5-7 minutes. June 23, 1952; McChord AFB, Washington. 9 p.m. Witness: 2nd Lt. K. Thompson. One very large light flew straight and level for 10 minutes. No further information. June 23, 1952; Kirksville, Missouri. Case missing from official files. June 23, 1952; Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 3:30 a.m. Witness: secretary Martha Milligan. One bullet-shaped object with burnt-orange exhaust flew straight and level for 30-60 seconds. June 23, 1952; Owensboro, Kentucky. 10:00 a.m. Witness: National Guard Lt. Col. O. L. Depp. Two objects looking like "giant soap bubbles", reflecting yellow and lavender colors, flew in trail for 5 seconds. June 23, 1952; Location unknown, but information came via Japan Hq. "CV 4359". 6:08 a.m. Witness: USAF pilot of the l8th Fighter-Bomber Group. One black coin-shaped object, 15-20' in diameter, made an irregular descent. June 25, 1952; Chicago, Illinois. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. Norbury, Mr. Matheis. One bright yellow-white, egg-shaped object which sometimes had a red tail, made seven circles in 1 1/2 hours. June 25, 1982; Japan-Korea area. Case missing from official files. June 26, 1952; Terre Haute, Indiana. 2:45 a.m. Witness: USAF 2nd Lt. C. W. Povelites. Undescribed object flew at 600 m.p.h. and then stopped. No further information in files. June 26, 1952; Pottstown, Pennsylvania. 11:50 p.m. Witness: assistant manager of airport. Three sightings of flashing lights: two lights separated by 2 miles, with the leader flashing steadily and the other irregularly; two similarly flashing lights, but with l mile separation; finally a single light. Speed estimated at 150-250 m.p.h.. Total of 1/2 hour. June 27, 1952; Topeka, Kansas. 6:50 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilot 2nd Lt. K. P. Kelly and wife. One pulsating red object which changed shape from a circular to a vertical oval as it pulsed. Was stationary for about 5 minutes, then went out. June 28, 1952; Lake Kishkanoug, Wisconsin. 6 p.m. Witness: G. Metcalfe. One silver-white sphere became an ellipse as it turned and climbed away very fast. 10 seconds. June 28, 1952; Nagoya, Japan. 4:10 p.m. Witness: Capt. T. W. Barger, USAF electronics countermeasures officer. One dark blue elliptical-shaped object with a pulsing border flew straight and level at 700-800 m.p.h.. June 29, 1952; O'Hare Airport, Chicago, Illinois. 5:45 p.m. witnesses: three USAF air policemen. One bright silver, flat oval object surrounded by a blue haze, hovered, then moved very fast to the right and to the left, and up and down for 45 minutes. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*++++++++++++++++++++++ + * * ****** ****** * * ***** + + Dean Madsen, KE0WO * * * * ** * * * * + + Inet: madsendean@bvc.edu * * * * * * * * * * * + + * * **** * * * * * * * * * + + Packet: * * * ** * * * * * + +KE0WO @ KE0WO.#NWIA.IA.USA.NA* * ****** ****** * * ***** + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!clarkson!balbondj From: balbondj@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Stone Cold Gentleman) Subject: Greetings Message-ID: Sender: news@news.clarkson.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: craft.camp.clarkson.edu Organization: Clarkson University Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 05:54:07 GMT Lines: 2 Greetings Eartlings, I am Brogedulakigthorn ma Toonet of the 34th planet in the megatooth galaxy. I will be invading your miserable planet this week. Those that wish to visit me and fuck some alien women please leave a reply. But I warn you. I am going to destroy this planet and all earthlins next wed. night. Look out. Only those that vote for Clinton shall be saved and taken to my ship! Be ware I will come. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!news.Vanderbilt.Edu!news From: MANEJWZA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: I am Earl. Message-ID: <1992Sep27.064610.15242@news.vanderbilt.edu> Date: 27 Sep 92 06:46:10 GMT Sender: news@news.vanderbilt.edu Organization: Vanderbilt University Lines: 7 Nntp-Posting-Host: ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21 Hello, I am Earl from the planet Rigel 7. I have come to swallow all of the swamp gas on Earth. Would someone please direct me to the Florida Everglades? Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31567 alt.alien.visitors:9722 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!doc.ic.ac.uk!sot-ecs!of From: of@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Fibre Optics) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: <12926@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: 27 Sep 92 10:33:55 GMT References: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> <1992Sep23.164403.7925@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Sender: news@ecs.soton.ac.uk Lines: 23 Nntp-Posting-Host: vicky I have a fascinating book, "The Reader's Handbook". It was first published in 1897, the version I have was updated by Rev. E. Cobham Brewer and published in 1911. It contains the following entry:- Spring-Heel Jack. The marquis of Waterford, in the early parts of the nineteenth century, used to amuse himself by springing on travellers unawares, to terrify them ; and from time to time others have followed his silly example. Even so late as 1877-8, an officer in her majesty's service caused much excitement in the garrisons stationed at Aldershot, Colchester , and elsewhere, by his "spring-heel" pranks. In Chichester and its neighbourhood the tales told of this adventurer caused quite a little panic, and many nervous people were afraid to venture out after sunset, for fear of being "sprung" upon. I myself investigated some of the cases reported to me, but found them for the most part Fakenham ghost tales. -- Peter Harris G4BDQ | Unusual exploding disclaimer -> (}|){//) Fibre Optics *-----------------------------------------------------(--PAF !-) Southampton University| "Relax in the safety of your own delusions" (/}|{\\) of@ecs.soton.ac.uk | Kerry Wendell Thornley ||| Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!aun.uninett.no!nuug!dhhalden.no!pc246.dhhalden.no!gunnarh From: gunnarh@dhhalden.no (GUNNAR HORRIGMO) Subject: My Stepmother Is An Alien! Message-ID: Lines: 0 Sender: news@dhhalden.no (Network News User) Nntp-Posting-Host: pc246 Organization: Ostfold College Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 13:24:06 GMT Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!madsendean From: madsendean@bvc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 4/6 Message-ID: <1992Sep27.093702.2102@bvc.edu> Date: 27 Sep 92 09:37:01 CDT Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA Lines: 504 Sept. 24, 1952; Charleston, West Virginia. 3:30 p.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF B-29 bomber. A lot of bright, metallic particles or flashes, up to 3' in length, streamed past the B-29 for 15 minutes. Sept. 26, 1952; 400 miles NNW of Azores Islands. 11:16 p.m. Witnesses: pilot, copilot, engineer and aircraft commander of USAF C-124 transport plane. Two distinct green lights were seen to the right and slightly above the C-124, and at one time seemed to turn toward it. The lights alternated leading each other during more than 1 hour of observation. Sept. 27, 1952; Inyokern, California. 10 p.m. Witnesses: two couples, using a 5x telescope. One large, round object, which went through the color spectrum every 2 seconds, was seen to fly straight and level for 15 minutes. Sept. 29, 1952; Rochester, England. 3:55 p.m. Witnesses unknown, but report came via the Rochester Police Dept. Two flat objects hovered for 3 minutes, and then sped away. Sept. 29, 1952; Southern Pines, North Carolina. 8:15 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Army Res. lst Lt. C.H. Stevens and two others. One green ellipse with a long tail orbited for 15 minutes. Sept. 29, 1952; Aurora, Colorado. 3:15 p.m. Witness: USAF T/Sgt. B.R. Hughes. Five or six circular objects, bright white but not shiny, circled in trail formation for 5-6 minutes. Oct. 1, 1952; Shaw AFB, South Carolina. 6:57 p.m. Witness: USAF lst Lt. T.J. Pointek, pilot of RF-8O reconnaissance jet. One bright white light flew straight, then vertical, then hovered, and then made an abrupt turn during a 23 minute attempted intercept. Oct. 1, 1952; Pascagoula, Mississippi. 7:40 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. C.C. McLean and one other person. One round, milky-white object, shaped like a powder puff, hovered for 5-10 minutes then flew away very fast in an arc. A loud blast was heard at the start of the 22 minute sighting. Oct. 7, 1952; Alamagordo, New Mexico. 8:30 p.m. Witness: USAF Lt. Bagnell. One pale blue oval, with its long axis vertical, flew straight and level for 4-5 seconds, covering 30 in that time. Oct. 10, 1952; Otis AFB, Massachusetts. 6:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF S/Sgt., two other enlisted men. One blinking white light moved like a pendulum for 20 minutes, and then shot straight up. Oct. 17, 1952; Taos, New Mexico. 9:15 p.m. Witnesses: Four USAF officers One round, bright blue light moved from north to northeast at an elevation of 45* for 2-3 seconds and then burned out. Oct. 17, 1952; Killeen, Texas. 10:15 p.m. Witnesses: Ministers Greenwalt and Kluck. Ten lights, or a rectangle of lights, moved more or less straight and level for 5 seconds. Oct. 17, 1952; Tierra Amarilla, New Mexico. 11 p.m. Witness: one military person (no detail). One white streamer moved at an estimated 3,000 m.p.h. in an arc for 20 seconds. No further details in files. Oct. 19, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 1:30 p.m. Witness: one ex-USAF aircrewman Woolsey. Three circular aluminum objects, one of which was olive-drab colored on the side, flew in a rough V-formation. One object flipped slowly, another object stopped, during the 3-4 minute sighting. Oct. 19. 1952; 500 miles south of Hawaii. 6:58 p.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF C-50 transport plane. One round yellow light, with a red glowing edge, estimated at 100' in diameter, flew at 300-400 kts. (350-450 m.p.h.) for 20 seconds. Oct. 21, 1952; Knoxville, Tennessee. No time given. Witnesses: persons at airport weather station. Six white lights flew in a loose formation for 1-2 minutes, and made a shallow dive at a weather balloon. Oct. 24, 1952; Elberton, Alabama. 8:26 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Lt. Rau, Capt. Marcinko, flying a Beech T-ll trainer. One object, shaped like a plate, with a brilliant front and vague trail, flew with its concave surface forward for 5 seconds. Oct. 29, 1952; Erding Air Depot, West Germany. 7:50 a.m. Witnesses: USAF S/Sgt. Anderson, A/2c Max Handy. One round object, silhouetted against a cloud, flew straight and level and smooth at 400 m.p.h. for 20 seconds. Oct. 31, 1952; Fayetteville, Georgia. 7:40 p.m. Witness: USAF Lt. James Allen. One orange, blimp-shaped object, 80' long and 20' high, flew at treetop level, crossed over Allen's car (at which time his radio stopped playing), then climbed out at 45' and tremendous speed at the end of a 1 minute sighting. Nov. 3, 1952; Laredo AFB, Texas. 66:29 p.m. Witnesses: two control tower operators, including Lemaster. One long, elliptical, white-grey light flew very fast, paused, and then increased speed during a 3-4 second observation. Nov. 4, 1952; Vineland, New Jersey. 5:40 p.m. Witness: housewife Mrs. Sprague. Two groups of 2-3 whirling discs of light flew toward the southeast over a period of 30 seconds. Nov. 12, 1952; Los Alamos, New Mexico. 10:23 p.m. Witness: security inspector. Four red-white-green lights flew slowly over a prohibited area for 15 minutes. Nov. 13, 1952; Opheim, Montana. 2:20 a.m. Witness: radar tracking by USAF 779th AC&W station. An unexplained track was followed for 1 hour, 28 minutes, at 158,000' altitude (30 miles) and a speed of 240 m.p.h. Radar was FPS/3 (PPI). Nov. 13, 1952; Glasgow, Montana. 2:43 a.m. Witness: U.S. Weather Bureau observer Earl Oksendahl. Five oval-shaped objects, with lights all around them, flew in a V-formation for about 20 seconds. Each object seemed to be changing position vertically by climbing or diving as if to hold formation. Formation came from the northwest, made a 90* overhead, and flew away to the southwest. Nov. 15, 1952; Wichita, Kansas. 7:02 a.m. Witnesses: USAF Maj. R.L. Wallander, Capt. Belleman, A/3c Phipps. One orange object (a blue streak?) varied in shape, as it made jerky upward sweeps with 10-15 second pauses during a 3-5 minute sighting. Nov. 24, 1952; Annandale, Virginia. 6:30 p.m. Witness: L.L' Brettner. One round, glowing object flew very fast, made right angle turns and reversed course during a 1 hour sighting. Nov. 27, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 12:10 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and crew chief of UAAF B-26 bomber. A series of black smoke bursts (4-3-3-4-3), similar to antiaircraft fire, was seen over a 20 minute period.C. 12:30 a.m. Witnesses: radar Nov. 30, 1952; Washington, D.C. l operators at Washington National Airport. Radar trackings similar to those of July 26, 1952. Dec. 8, 1952; Ladd AFB, Alaska. 8:16 p.m. Witnesses: pilot lst Lt. D. Dickman and radar operator lst Lt. T. Davies in USAF F-94 jet interceptor (s/n 49-2522). One white, oval light which changed to red at higher altitude, flew straight and level for 2 minutes, then climbed at phenomenal speed on an erratic flight path. Sighting lasted 10 minutes. Dec. 9, 1952; Madison, Wisconsin. 5:45 p.m. Witnesses: Capt. Bridges and lst Lt. Johneon in USAF T-33 jet trainer. Four bright lights, in diamond formation, flew at 400 m.p.h. and were passed by the T-33 at 450 m.p.h. during the 10 minute sighting. Dec. 28, 1952; Marysville, California. Case missing from official files. Jan. 1, 1953; Craig, Montana. 8:45 p.m. Witnesses: Warner Anderson and two women. A silver, saucer-shaped object with a red glowing bottom, flew low over a river and then climbed fast in a horizontal attitude. Ten second sighting. Jan. 8, 1953; Larson AFB, Washington. 7:15 a.m. Witnesses: men from the 82nd Fighter-Interceptor Squadron, including the squadron commander; all were on the ground. One green, disc- shaped or round object flew southwest for 15 minutes, with a vertically bobbing motion and sideways movements, below clouds. Jan. 10, 1953; Sonoma, California. 3:45 p.m. or 4 p.m. Witnesses: retired Col. Robert McNab, and Mr. Hunter of the Federal Security Agency. One flat object, like a pinhead, made three 360* right turns in 9 seconds, made abrupt 90* turns to the right and left, stopped, accelerated to original speed and finally flew out of sight vertically after 60-75 seconds. Jan. 17, 1953; near Guatemala City, Guatemala. 3:55 p.m. Witness: geologist/salesman J.J. Sackett. One brilliant green-gold object, shaped like the Goodyear blimp with its length twice its height, flew 400 m.p.h. straight and level, stopped, then went straight up with one stop. Sighting lasted 22 seconds. Jan. 28, 1953; Pt. Mugu, California. 1 p.m. Witness: R.W. Love, owner of Love Diving Co., engaged in retrieving radio- controlled drones. An 18-20' white, flat disc flew straight and level, overhead, for 6 minutes. Jan. 28, 1953; Corona, California. 6:05 p.m. Witness: USAF T/Sgt. George Beyer. Five 25' green spheres flew in V-formation, then changed to trail formation at which time the end objects turned red. Sighting lasted 12 minutes. Jan. 28, 1953; Albany, Georgia. No time given. Witnesses: radar maintenance personnel. Radar tracked one stationary target for 20 minutes. A visual sighting about the same time was explained. No further information in the files. Feb. 3, 1953; Keflavik, Iceland. 5:25 p.m. Witnesses: radar operators. Four unidentified targets were tracked for 24 minutes. No further data. Feb. 4, 1953; Yuma, Arizona. 1:50 p.m. Witness: U.S. Weather Bureau observer Stanley Brown, using a theodolite. One white, oblong object was tracked flying straight up, leveling off and being joined by a second, similar, object. The second twice flew away and returned to the first. After 5 minutes, both were lost to sight behind clouds. Feb. 17, 1953; Port Austin. Michigan. 10:04 p.m. Witnesses: two officers and three airmen of USAF AC&W squadron, visually and by radar. Visual object appeared to larger and brighter than a star and changed color; it was seen to move slowly for 5 minutes until 10:09 p.m. Radar picked up a target at 10:08 p.m. moving in a similar direction for 17 minutes, at similar speed. Feb. 20, 1953; Pittsburg-Stockton, California. #1 time unknown; #2, 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF B-25 bomber pilots. #1 was a bright yellow light seen for 8 minutes. #2 was a bright light which flew on a collision course, dimmed and climbed away fast. Feb. 24, 1953; Sherman, Texas. 7:43 p.m. Witnesses: Warrant Officer and Mrs. Alden. Two bright red, round objects with big halos flew in small circles, climbed and faded during a 3-7 second sighting. Feb. 27, 1953; Shreveport, Louisiana. 11:58 a.m. Witness: USAF airman/private pilot. Five yellow discs made circular turns, fluttered, three of them vanished, the other two flew erratic square turns for a total of 4 minutes. March 11, 1953; Hackettstown, New Jersey. 4 a.m. Witness: Mrs. Nina Cook, an experienced private pilot and wife of a Pan Am flight engineer. A large light, blinking at 10-15 times per minute, moved up and down along a mountain range. March 14, 1953; north of Hiroshima, Japan. 11:45 p.m. Witnesses: radar and visual observation by 10 crew members of U.S. Navy P2V-5 patrol plane. Groups of 5-10 colored lights, totalling 90-100, slowly moved aft off the left side of the airplane, as detected visually and by airborne radar for 5 minutes. March 21, 1953; Elmira, New York. 3:05 p.m. Witness: Ground Observer Corps observation post. Six discs in a group flew high and fast for a few seconds. March 25, 1953; San Antonio, Texas. 3:05 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Capt. and Mrs. D.E. Cox. Several lights, some of which moved straight, others which made 360^ turns for 1.5 hours. March 27, 1953; Mt. Taylor, New Mexico. 7:25 p.m. Witness: pilot of USAF F-86 jet fighter at 600 kts. (700 m.p.h.). One bright orange circle flew at 800 kts. (900 m.p.h.), and executed three fast rolls. Pilot chased object for 4 minutes. March 29, 1953; Spooner, Wisconsin. 3:45 p.m. Witness: L.C. Gillette. One aluminum, circular object flew high and fast, twice reversing its course. Note: Mr. Gillette saw a similar object in 1938. Fifteen second sighting. April 8, 1953; Fukuoka, Japan. 7:55 p.m. Witness: lst Lt. D.J. Pichon, pilot of USAF F-94B jet interceptor. One bright blue light descended, accelerated, flew parallel to the F-94, increased its speed and blinked out after 45 seconds. April 15, 1953; Tucson, Arizona. 5:45 p.m. Witness: S/Sgt. V.A. Locey. Three orange lights were seen for: 3 minutes, 30 seconds, and a few seconds. May 1, 1953; Goose AFB, Labrador, Canada. 11:35 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of USAF F-94 jet interceptor, and control tower operator. One white light evaded interception attempt by F-94 during 30 minute sighting. May 27, 1953; San Antonio, Texas. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: many unidentified civilians, including Jacobson. Nine separate meandering lights were seen during 15 minute sighting. June 21, 1953; Naha, Okinawa. 7 p.m. Witnesses: Nine Japanese and Okinawan weather observers. One unidentified light moved slowly for 20 minutes. No further data in files. June 22, 1953; Goose AFB, Labrador, Canada. Z:lO a.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of USAF F-94 jet interceptor. One red light, flying at an estimated 1,000 kts. (1,100 m.p.h.) eluded the chasing F-94 after 5 minutes. June 24, 1953; Iwo Jima, Bonin Islands. 11:30 p.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF KB-29 aerial tanker plane. Radar tracked an unidentified target which twice approached to within .5 miles of the airplane, and once to within 6 miles, during a 2 minute observation. June 24, 1953; Simiutak, Greenland. 11:30 a.m. Witness: weather observer A/2c R.A. Hill. One red triangle hovered and rotated for 15 seconds, then climbed for 5 minutes. Aug. 3, 1953; Amarillo, Texas. 12:04 p.m. Witness: Airport control tower chief C.S. Brown. One round and reflective or translucent object flew straight, stopped for 7 seconds, sped along, stopped again, was joined by a similar object and they flew off in different directions, after a total of 56 minutes. Aug. 20, 1953; near Castle AFB, California. 9:05 p.m. Witnesses: crew of TB-29 bomber/trainer plane. One greyish oval object made four passes at the airplane (three times at 10-20 miles distance), then dived vertically as if two objects. Aug. 27, 1953; Greenville, Mississippi. 9:45 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilot, M/Sgt., others, all on the ground. One meandering light was observed for 50 minutes. No further details in file. Sept. 2, 1953; Sidi Slimane AFB, French Morocco. 9:14 p.m. Witnesses: Lt. Col. William Moore and lst Lt. J.H. McInnis, Dec. 24, 1953; El Cajon, California. 8:04 a.m. Witnesses: U.S. Navy Lts. J.B. Howard and L.D. Linhard, flying F9F-2 jet fighters. Ten silver, oval objects flew at more than 400 kts. (450 m.p.h.), straight and level, for 5 minutes. Dec. 28, 1953; Marysville, California. 11:55 a.m. Witness: Yuba County Airport Manager Dick Brandt. One saucer, with a brilliant blue light, reflecting on a nearby building, hovered briefly during the 1.5 minute observation. Jan. 28, 1954; Rangeley, Maine. 110-10:15 a.m. Witness: Wilhelm Reich. Two bright lights moved into valley, and were seen against the mountain background, for 15 minutes. Feb. 26, 1954; Newburyport, Massachusetts. 2:30 p.m. Witnesses: architect R.M. Pierce, marine engineer George Avery and one other person. One silver disc, with a white trail, made a loud roar for 30-60 seconds. March 2, 1954; vicinity of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. 10 p.m. Witness: research engineer R.C. Swengel. Three objects, each with two lights, flew straight and level at medium speed for an unknown length of time. March 5, 1954; Nouasseur, French Morocco. 8 p.m. Witnesses: crews of USAF KC-97 aerial tanker planes. One object or light made passes at KC-97s, the other flew straight and level. Sighting duration unknown. March 12, 1954; Nouasseur, French Morocco. 9:35 a.m. Witness: USAF lst Lt. Robert Johnson, flying an F-86 jet fighter. He chased an object at more than 530 m.p.h. for 30 seconds, but was unable to catch it. It appeared to be the size of a fighter plane but had neither tanks nor trails. April 8, 1954; Chicago, Illinois. 4:30 p.m. Witness: Lelah Stoker. One white round-topped disc, with a humanoid suspended beneath it, skimmed over the water, landed, and an occupant in a green suit walked around. It then took off very, very fast. Sighting lasted 30 minutes. April 23, 1954; Pittsfield, Maine. 9:30 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. F.E. Robinson. One silver dollar-shaped object with a dome and a flashing light made a sound like a swarm of bees. It hovered and tilted, flew horizontally, then rose vertically without tilting. Stones underneath it moved. Four minute sighting. April 24, 1954; Hartland, Maine. 6:10 p.m. Witness: D. Robinson. One large, silver, oblong object with a dome and a flashing light flew straight and level and then straight up. Total of 15 minutes under observation. April 26, 1954; Athens, Georgia. 7:35 p.m. Witnesses: C. Cartey, Mr. and Mrs. H. Hopkins and their daughter. Fifteen to twenty yellow objects in a V-formation, flew from south to north for 10 seconds. May 10, 1954; Elsinore, California. 12:40 p.m. Witness: U.S. Marine Corps Squadron Leader D.R. Higgin, flying an F3D-2 jet fighter. One dark gunmetal delta-shaped object, 22' long and 10' wide, with a fin on the top, descended at a 25-30' angle under the lead airplane of a formation, and over the airplane of Higgin. Sighting lasted a few seconds. May 11, 1954; Washington, D.C. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: three USAF.air policemen at Washington National Airport. Two bright lights were seen on three occasions to fly straight and level, make 90* turns and fade. Each sighting lasted about 45 seconds. May 22, 1954; LaPorte, Indiana. 9:15 p.m. Witnesses: highway engineer R.W. Dring, engineer Geert Tibma. One bright light made a shallow climb for 45 seconds. May 31, 1954; Concord, New Hampshire. 10:15 a.m. Witness: Mrs. L.K. Stevens. One very white, elongated object flew very, very fast, and then blinked out after 8-10 seconds. June 1, 1954; from 400 miles south to Minneapolis, Minnesota. 9 p.m. Witnesses: crew of USAF B-47 jet bomber at 34,000' altitude. One object with running lights flew at 24-44,000' altitude for 1 hour. June 8, 1954; Texarkana, Texas. 1 a.m. or 2:30 a.m. (file not clear). Witness: L.T. Prewitt, employee of Red River Arsenal. One golden yellow light flew over his house, making a "shhh" or buzzing sound for 2 minutes. 9:09 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot June 10, 1954; Estacado, Texas. 9:09 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Capt. Bill McDonald, in flight. One white light descended at 45^ from great altitude, passed under his aircraft, made two 360' turns and went out after 30 seconds. June 22, 1954; Miami Beach, Florida. 9 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Marine Corps Maj. E. Buchser and Maj. J.V. Wilkins. One meteor- like object descended, stopped, and became extremely bright. Sighting lasted 7 minutes. June 24, 1954; Danvers, Massachusetts. 12:45 p.m. Witness: R.B. Tomer, director of commercial engineering for CBS-Hytron. One white, elliptical-shaped object covered 45^ of sky in 30 seconds. June 25, 1954; Indian Lake, Ohio. 5:05 p.m. Witnesses: experienced private pilot John Mark, flying Navion lightplane; radar at Dayton, Ohio airport, tracked very fast target at same location. One silver or aluminum round object with a flat bottom, raised front edge, inverted cone on top, and a diameter of about 60'. Flew horizontally, hovered, made a high-G pull up and then a steep climb into an overcast. Sighting lasted 3-5 minutes. July 18, ; Normandy, Missouri. 8:40 p.m. Witness: A.T. Chamblin. One greenish-white disc was seen for 30 minutes. July 25, 1954; Middle Sister Island, on U.S.-Canadian border in western Lake Erie. 7:12 p.m. Witness: attorney L.B. Tussing. One black cylinder, 12 times long as wide, moved fast along the surface of the lake. July 30, 1954; Los Angeles, California. 10:15 a.m. Witness: Hughes Aircraft test pilots Englert and Peterson, flying a B-25 bomber. One metallic, pencil-shaped object flew slowly or hovered for an unstated length of time. Aug. 2, 1954; Westlake, Ohio. 5:17 p.m. Witness: ex-AAF B-17 gunner (19 missions) N.E. Schroeder. One thin, bright ellipse, like polished metal, hovered for 5-8 seconds, dropped down 3,000' in 3 seconds, hovered again and faded out after a total of 20 seconds in view. Aug' 6, 1954; San Antonio, Texas. 6 p.m. Witness: mechanical engineer L.H. Hormer. One intensely white elliptical light changed to yellow, then orange, then pink, four or five times while flying straight and level for 5 minutes. Aug. 11, 1954; Yoron Jima, near Okinawa. 8:55 p.m. Witness: P.L. Percharde, electrical engineer and assistant manager of Moeller Shipwrecker Co., of Okinawa. A line of blue lights, underneath. a blue circle with a black center. Flew over ship and climbed, illuminating and agitating the clouds. Aug. 15, 1954; San Marcos, Texas. 10:20 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Maj. W.J. Davis, Capt. R.D. Sauers, flying a C-47 transport plane. One dark blue oblong object paced the C-47, veered away, then crossed in front of it. Five minute sighting. Aug. 24, 1954; Egilstadir, Iceland. 8:30 p.m. Witness: one unnamed farmer. A cylinder, 2-2.5' long, 4-5' in diameter, made a loud whizzing sound, flew straight and level fast, then slow, then fell into sandbar. Aug. 26, 1954; Danville, Virginia. 6:15 a.m. Witness: Rev. W.L. Shelton. Two domed ellipses, 20' long, 8' thick, 10' at ends; glowing silver or orange. Hovered, then climbed side-by- side while getting brighter. Observed for 2 minutes. Aug. 27, 1954; Dorchester, Massachusetts. 1 p.m. Witness: E.A. Srazdes. Seven large, white, teardrop-shaped objects turned blue. Flew in line formation and increased speed during the 2 minute sighting. Aug. 29, 1954; Prince Christian, Greenland. 11:05 a.m. Witnesses: lst Officer H.G. Gardner, engineer J.V.D. Whitisy, flying Royal Dutch Airlines DC-4 (PH-DBZ). Three or four dark, lens-shaped objects veered north and changed position in formation during the 10 minute sighting. Sept. 4, 1954; Butler, Missouri. 3 a.m. Witness: J. Faltemeier, CAA communications specialist. Twenty-thirty lights, as if on a string, flew straight and level for 1.5 minutes. Sept. 5, 1954; Butler, Missouri. 12:23 a.m. Witness: J. Faltemeier, CAA communications specialist. One silver or white object with a slightly swept-back leading edge and a following exhaust, flew straight and level, then veered southwest to south after 30 seconds. Sept. 18, 1954; Kimpo Air Base, Japan. 5:55 a.m. Witnesses: two control tower operators, a weather forecaster and a weather observer. One round object, like polished aluminum, flew straight and level for 11-13 minutes. Sighting las ted 2 minutes. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*++++++++++++++++++++++ + * * ****** ****** * * ***** + + Dean Madsen, KE0WO * * * * ** * * * * + + Inet: madsendean@bvc.edu * * * * * * * * * * * + + * * **** * * * * * * * * * + + Packet: * * * ** * * * * * + +KE0WO @ KE0WO.#NWIA.IA.USA.NA* * ****** ****** * * ***** + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!madsendean From: madsendean@bvc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 3/6 Message-ID: <1992Sep27.093528.2101@bvc.edu> Date: 27 Sep 92 09:35:27 CDT Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA Lines: 514 July 3, 1952; Selfridge AFB, Michigan. 4:15 a.m. Witnesses not identified. Two big lights, estimated at 20' diameter, flew straight and level at tremendous speed. July 3, 1952; Chicago, Illinois. 11:50 p.m. Witness: Mrs. J. D. Arbuckle. Two bright pastel green discs flew straight and level very fast for 6 seconds. July 5, 1952; Norman, Oklahoma. 7:58 p.m. Witness: Oklahoma State Patrolman Hamilton in State Patrol airplane. Three dark discs hovered and then flew away, silhouetted against a dark cloud. 15 seconds. July 6-12, 1952; Elizabeth, New Jersey. 11:00 p.m. Witness: Charles Muhr. Four pictures taken of some indistinct light which was admittedly not seen visually, but which appeared on the negatives. July 9, 1952; Colorado Springs, Colorado. 12:45 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Maj. C. K. Griffin. One object shaped like an airfoil less its trailing edge, luminous white, moved slowly and erratically for 12 minutes. July 9, 1952; Kutztown, Pennsylvania. 6:30 p.m. Witness: farmer John Mittl. One aluminum, oval-shaped object changed direction and attitude, finally tipping on end and departing after 20 seconds. Case file includes three vague photographs. July 9, 1952; Rapid City AFB, South Dakota. 3:35 p.m. Witnesses: S/Sgt. D.P. Foster and three other persons. Three times, a single white, disc-shaped object sped by, straight and level, in 5 seconds. July 12, 1952; Annapolis, Maryland. 3:30 p.m. Witness: insurance company president William Washburn. Four large, elliptical-shaped objects were seen to fly very fast, stop, turn 90* and fly away in 7-8 seconds. . July 12, 1952; Kirksville, Missouri. 9 p.m. Witnesses: many radar controllers who were military officers. Several big blips tracked on radar at 1,500 kts. (1,700 m.p.h.). There was no visual sighting. July 14, 1952; Norfolk, Virginia. 8:12 p.m. Witnesses: Pan American Airways First Officer William Nash, Second Officer William Fortenberry. Eight large, round, glowing red objects maneuvered below their airliner, in formation. July 15, 1952; West Palm Beach, Florida. 10:10 p.m. Witnesses: J. Antoneff and two other persons. One discus-shaped object, greyish, except when hovering, when it appeared muddy. Hovered over Palm Beach International Airport, then followed an SA-l6 twin-engined amphibian and flew away after 40-60 seconds. July 16, 1952; Beverly, Massachusetts. 9:35 a.m. Witness: U.S. Coast Guard photographer Shell Alpert. Four roughly elliptical blobs of light in formation photographed through window of photo lab. July 17, 1952; White Plains, New York. 3:10 p.m. Witness: Mrs. Florence Daley. Two round objects, bluish-white with brighter rims, flew in formation, making a sound like bombers, only softer. Note: Later, the witness stated she heard many feminine voices coming from the objects. July 17, 1952; Lockbourne, Ohio. 11 a.m. Witness: Air National Guard employees. One light like a big star was seen for 3 hours, but disappeared when an aircraft approached. Also seen the night of July 20, 22 and 23. July 18, 1952; Lockbourne, Ohio. 9:10 p.m. Witnesses: T/Sgt. Mahone, A/3c Jennings. One amber-colored, elliptical-shaped object with a small flame at the rear, periodically increased in brightness. It moved very fast for l 1/2 minutes, giving off a resonant beat sound. July 18, 1952; Miami, Florida. 11 a.m. Witnesses: E. R. Raymer and daughter. One opaque, silvery bubble flew very fast at a right-angle to the wind direction for 10 seconds. July 18, 1952; Patrick AFB, Florida. 9:45 p.m. Witnesses: three USAF officers and four enlisted men. Over an hour period, a series of hovering and maneuvering red-orange lights were observed moving in a variety of directions. July 19, 1952; Williston, North Dakota. 2:55 a.m. Witness: one experienced civilian pilot. One elliptical-shaped object with a light fringe, travelled down fast, made a 360* and then a 180* turn in 5 minutes. July 19, 1952; Elkins Park, Pennsylvania. 11:35 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilot Capt. C.J. powley and wife. Two star-like lights maneuvered, hovered and sped for 5-7 minutes. July 20, 1952; Lavalette, New Jersey. 12:20 a.m. Witness: Seton Hall Univ. chemistry professor Dr. A.B. Spooner. Two large orange-yellow lights with some dull red coloring flew in trail, turned and circled for 5-6 minutes. July 21, 1952; Weisbaden, West Germany. 6:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilot Capt. E.E. Dougher, WAF Lt. J.J. Stong, situated miles apart. Four bright yellowish lights were seen by Dougher to separate, with two climbing and two flying away level in the opposite direction. Stong watched two reddish lights fly in opposite directions. Sightings lasted about 10-15 minutes. July 21, 1952; San Marcos AFB, Texas. 10:40 p.m. Witnesses: one Lieutenant, two Staff Sergeants, three airmen. One blue circle with a blue trail was seen to hover and then accelerate to near-sonic speed (700+ m.p.h.) after 1 minute. July 21, 1952; Converse, Texas. 4:30 p.m. Witness: wife of USAF Capt. J. B. Neal. One elongated, fuselage-shaped object flew straight and level, made a right-angle turn and went out of sight at more than 300 m.p.h., all in 3-5 seconds. July 21, 1952; Rockville, Indiana. 8:10 p.m. Witnesses: one military officer, two enlisted men. One aluminum, delta-shaped object with a vertical fin, flew straight and level, and then hovered during a 3 minute sighting. July 22, 1952; Holyoke, Massachusetts. After midnight. Witness: Mrs. A. Burgess. One round, yellow, flashing light went downward. No further information in files. July 22, 1952; Los Alamos, New Mexico. 10:50 a.m. Witnesses: control tower operator Don Weins, and two pilots for Carco. Eight large, round, bright aluminum objects flew straight and level, then darted around erratically during 25 minutes. July 22, 1952; Uvalde, Texas. 2:46 p.m. Witness: Don Epperly, Trans Texas Airlines station manager and weather observer. One large, round, silver object flew at more than 1,000 m.p.h. for 45 seconds, while gyrating. July 22, 1952; between Boston and Provincetown, Massachusetts. 10:47 p.m. Witnesses: pilot and radar operator of USAF F-94 jet interceptor. One round blue light passed F-94, spinning. July 22, 1952; Trenton, New Jersey. 10:50 p.m. t.o 12:45 a.m., July 23. Witnesses: crews of several USAF F-94 jet interceptors from Dover AFB, Del. Thirteen visual sightings and one radar tracking of blue-white lights during two hours. July 23, 1952; Pottstown, Pennsylvania. 8:40 a.m. Witnesses: the two-man crews of three USAF F-94 jet interceptors. One large silver object, shaped like a long pear with two or three squares beneath it, flew at 150-180 kts. (170-210 m.p.h.), while a smaller object, delta-shaped or swept back, flew around it at 1,000-1,500 kts. (1,150-1,700 m.p.h.). Seen by crews for 1-4 minutes. July 23, 1952; Altoona, Pennsylvania. 12:50 p.m. Witnesses: two-man crews of two USAF F-94 jet interceptors at 35-46,000' altitude. Three cylindrical objects in a vertical stack formation flew at an altitude of 50-80,000'. Seen for 20 minutes. July 23, 1952; South Bend, Indiana. 11:35 p.m. Witness: USAF pilot Capt. H. W. Kloth. Two bright blue-white objects flew together, then the rear one veered off after about 9 minutes. July 24, 1952; Carson Sink, Nevada. 3:40 p.m. Witnesses: two USAF Lt. Colonels McGinn and Barton in a B-25 bomber. Three silver, delta-shaped objects, each with a ridge along the top, crossed in front of and above the B-25 at high speed, in 3-4 seconds. July 26, 1952; Washington, D.C. 8 p.m. until after midnight. Witnesses: radar operators at several airports, airline pilots. Many unidentified blips tracked by radar all over Washington area, at varying speeds. Pilots spotted unidentified lights. July 26, 1952; Kansas City, Missouri. 12:15 a.m. Witnesses: USAF Capt. H. A. Stone, men in control towers at Fairfax Field and Municipal Airport. One greenish light with red-orange flashes was seen for 1 hour as it descended in the northwest from 40* elevation to 10* elevation. July 26, 1952; Andrews AFB, Maryland. This was a continuation of the extensive sightings and radar tracking reports reported throughout the Washington, D.C. area, all night long. July 26, 1952; Kirtland AFB, New Mexico. 12:05 a.m. Witness: Airman lst Class J.M. Donaldson. Eight to ten orange balls in a triangular or V-formation flew very fast for 3-4 seconds. July 26, 1952; Williams, California. Case missing from official files. July 27, 1952; Selfridge AFB, Michigan. 10:05 a.m. Witnesses: three B-29 bomber crewmen on ground. Many round, white objects flew straight and level, very fast. Two at 10:05, one at 10:10, one at 10:15, one at 10:20. Each was seen for about 30 seconds. July 27, 1952; Wichita Falls, Texas. 8:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Adrian Ellis. Two disc-shaped objects, illuminated by a phosphorus light, flew at an estimated l,000 m.p.h. for 15 seconds. July 28, 1952; Heidelberg, West Germany. 10:20 p.m. Witnesses: Sgt. B.C. Grassmoen, WAC Pfc. A.P. Turner. One saucer-shaped object having an appearance of light metal and giving off shafts of white light, flew slow, made a 90^ turn and climbed away fast after 4-5 minutes. July 28, 1952; McGuire AFB, New Jersey. 6 a.m. Witness: Ground Control Approach radar operator M/Sgt. W.F. Dees, and persons in the base control tower. Radar tracked a large cluster of very distinct blips. Visual observation was of oblong objects having neither wings nor tail, which made a very fast turn and at one time were in echelon formation. Entire episode lasted 55 minutes. July 28, 1952; McChord AFB, Washington. 2:15 a.m. Witnesses: T/Sgt. Walstead, S/Sgt. Calkins of the 635th AC&W Squadron. One dull, glowing, blue-green ball,.the size of a dime at arms' length, flew very fast, straight and level. July 29, 1952; Osceola, Wisconsin. 1:30 a.m. Witnesses: radar operators on ground, pilot of F-5l Mustang in flight. Several clusters of up to 10 small radar targets and one large target. Small targets moved from southwest to east at 50-60 kts. (60-70 m.p.h.), following each other. The large one moved at 600 kts. (700 m.p.h.). One hour total time. Pilot confirmed one target. July 29, 1952; Langley AFB, Virginia. 2:30 p.m. Witness: USAF Capt D.G. Moore, of military air traffic control system. One undescribed object flew at an estimated 2,600 m.p.h., below 5,000' altitude, toward the air base for about 2 minutes. July 29, 1952; Langley AFB, Virginia. 2:50 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. Moore, Gilfillan electronics representative W. Yhope. One radar target tracked moving away, stopped for 2 minutes, again moved very, very fast. Four minutes. July 29, 1952; Merced, California. 3:44 or 4:35 p.m. Witnesses: Herbert Mitchell and one employee. One dark, discus-shaped object, trailed by a silvery light 2 lengths behind, tipped on its side, dove, hesitated and then circled very fast during the 2 minute sighting. July 29, 1952; Wichita, Kansas. 12:35 p.m. Witnesses: USAF shop employees Douglas and Hess at Municipal Airport. One bright white circular object with a flat bottom flew very fast, and then hovered 10-15 seconds over the Cessna Aircraft Co. plant, during the 5 minute sighting. July 29, 1952; Ennis, Montana. 12:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF persons, alerted that UFOs were coming from the direction of Seattle, Wash. Two to five flat disc-shaped objects: one hovered 3-4 minutes, while the others circled it. Sighting length of 30 minutes not explained further. July 30, 1952; Albuquerque, New Mexico. 11:02 p.m. Witness: USAF lst Lt. George Funk. One orange light remained stationary for 10 minutes. No further details in files. July 30, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 10 a.m. Witnesses: E.E. Nye and one other person. One round, white object flew slow and then sped away after 20-30 minutes. Aug. 1, 1952; Lancaster, California. 1:14 a.m. Witnesses: sheriff's deputies and other persons, one named Mallette. Two brilliant red lights hovered and maneuvered for 5 minutes. Aug. 2, 1952; Lake Charles, Louisiana. 3 a.m. Witnesses: USAF lst Lt. W.A. Theil, one enlisted man. One red ball with a blue flame tail flew straight and level for 3-4 seconds. Aug. 4, 1952; Phoenix, Arizona. 2:20 a.m. Witness: USAF A/3c W.F. Vain. One yellow ball which lengthened and narrowed to plate shape, flew straight and level for 5 minutes. Aug. 4, 1952; Mt. Vernon, New York. 11:37 a.m. Witnesses: one woman, two children. One object, shaped like a lifesaver or donut, emitted black smoke from its top and made a 15' arc in 1.5 minutes. Observed for 2 hours. Aug 5. 1952; Haneda AFB, Japan. 11:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF F-94 jet interceptor pilots lst Lt. W.R. Holder and lst Lt. A.M. Jones, and Haneda control tower operators. Airborne radar tracked a target for 90 seconds. Control tower operators watched 50-60 minutes while a dark shape with a light flew as fast as 330 kts. (380 m.p.h.), hovered, flew curves and performed a variety of maneuvers. Aug. 6, 1952; Tokyo, Japan. This is a continuation of the Haneda AFB sightings. Aug. 6, 1952; Port Austin, Michigan. Case missing from official files. Aug. 7. 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 9:08 a.m. Witness: Mrs. Susan Pfuhl. Four glowing white discs: one made a 180* turn, one flew straight and level, one veered off, and one circled during the 70 minute sighting. Aug. 9, 1952; Lake Charles, Louisiana. 10:50 a.m. Witness: USAF A/3c J.P. Raley. One disc-shaped object flew very fast and then hovered for 2 seconds during a 5-6 minute sighting. Aug. 13, 1952; Tokyo, Japan. 9:45 p.m. Witness: USAF Marine Corps pilot Maj. D. McGough. One orange light flew a left orbit at 8,000' and 230 m.p.h., spiralled down to no more than 1,500', remained stationary for 2-3 minutes and went out. An attempted interception was unsuccessful. Aug. 18, 1952; Fairfield, California. 12:50 a.m. Witnesses: three policemen. One object changed color like a diamond, and changed directions during the 30 minute sighting. Aug. 19, 1952; Red Bluff, California. 2:38 p.m. Witness: Ground Observer Corps observer Albert Lathrop. Two objects, shaped like fat bullets, flew straight and level, very fast for 25 seconds. Aug. 20, 1952; Neffesville, Pennsylvania. 3:10 a.m. Witnesses: Bill Ford and two others. An undescribed object flew at 500' altitude for several minutes. No further data in files. Aug. 21, 1952; Dallas, Texas. 11:54 p.m. Witness: Jack Rossen, ex-artillery observer. Three blue-white lights hovered then descended; 1.5 minutes later, one of them descended more. Aug. 23, 1952; Akron, Ohio. 4:10 a.m. Witnesses: USAF 2nd Lt. H.K. Funseth, a ground radar observer, and two U.S. Navy men. One pulsing amber light was seen to fly straight and level for 7 minutes. Aug. 24, 1952; Hermanas, Mexico. 10:15 a.m. Witness: Georgia Air National Guard F-84G jet fighter pilot Col. G.W. Johnson. Two 6' silver balls in abreast formation, one turned grey rapidly, the other slowly. One changed to long grey shape during a turn. Sighting lasted about 10 minutes. Aug. 24, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 5:40 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. George White. One large round, metallic, white light with a vague lower surface, flew slowly, then fast With a dancing, wavering motion, for about 1 minute. Aug. 24, 1952; Levelland, Texas. 9:30 p.m., 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Elmer Sharp. One object, shaped like a spinning top, changing color from red to yellow to blue, and with a fiery tail, hovered for 20 minutes, whistling, then flew away. It, or another like it, returned an hour later. Aug. 25, 1952; Pittsburg, Kansas. 5:35 a.m. Witness: radio station musician William Squyres. One dull aluminum object, shaped like two meat platters, face to face, estimated at 75' long, 45' wide, and 15' thick. Through a window in the front section shone a blue light; the head and shoulders of a man could be seen. The mid section had numerous windows through which could be seen some kind of regular movement. A series of small propellers were spaced close together along the outer edge of the object, revolving at high speed. The object was hovering about 10' above the ground, 100 yards off the road, with a slight rocking motion. It then ascended vertically with a sound like a large covey of quail starting to fly at the same time. Vegetation showed signs of having been disturbed under the object. Aug. 25, 1952; Holloman AFB, New Mexico. 3:40 p.m. Witnesses: civilian supervisor Fred Lee, foreman L.A. Aquilar. One round silver object flew south, turned and flew north, made a 360 turn and flew away vertically after 3-5 minutes. Aug. 26, 1952; Lathrop Wells, Nevada. 12:10 a.m. Witness: USAF Capt. D.A. Woods. One large, round, very bright object with a V-shaped contrail having a dark cone in the center, flew very fast, hovered, made an instantaneous 90 turn, followed by a gentle climb and finally sudden acceleration. Aug. 28, 1952; Chickasaw and Brookley AFB, Alabama. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: USAF control tower operators, officer from USAF Office of Special Investigations, and others. Six objects, varying from fiery red to sparkling diamond appearance, hovered, flew erratically up and down for 1 hour and l5minutes. Aug. 29, 1952; Colorado Springs, Colorado. 8:35 p.m. Witness: pilot C.A. Magruder. Three objects, 50' in diameter, 10' high, aluminum with red-yellow exhaust, flew in trail at estimated 1,500 m.p.h. for 4-5 seconds. Aug. 29, 1952; west of Thule, Greenland (77' N., 75* 15' W.) 10:50 a.m. Witnesses: two U.S. Navy pilots flying a P4Y-2 patrol plane. Three white disc-shaped or spherical objects hovered, then flew very fast in a triangular formation, in 2-3 minutes. Sept. l, 1952; Marietta, Georgia. 10:50 p.m. Witness: ex-AAF B-25 gunner. Two large white disc-shaped objects with green vapor trails flew in trail formation, merged, flew away very fast. Sept. 1, 1952; Marietta, Georgia. 10:30 p.m. Witness: one unidentified person using binoculars. Two large objects shaped like spinning tops and displaying red, blue and green colors, flew side by side, leaving a sparkling trail for 30 minutes. Sept. 1, 1952; Atlanta, Georgia. 9:43 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. William Davis and nine other persons. One light, similar to the evening star, moved up and down for a long period of time. Sept. l, 1952; Marietta, Georgia. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. Bowman (ex-artillery officer) and 24 others. A red, white, and blue-green object which spun and shot off sparks for 15 minutes. Sept. 1, 1952; Yaak, Montana. 4:45 a.m. Witnesses: Visual sighting by two USAF enlisted men, radar tracking seen by three men using AN/FPS-3 radar set. Two small, varicolored lights became black silhouettes at dawn; flew erratically. One hour. Sept. 2, 1952; Chicago, Illinois. 3 a.m. Witness: radar tracker Turason (ground controlled approach) at Midway Airport. 40 targets flew in miscellaneous directions, up to 175 m.p.h. Two seemed to fly in formation with DC-6 airliner. Total of 8 hours. Sept. 3, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 99 a.m. Witnesses: civilian pilots McCraven and Thomas. One shiny, dark ellipse made three broad, curving sweeps in 1.5 minutes. Sept. 6, 1952; Lake Charles AFB, Louisiana. l:3O'a.m. Witnesses: T/Sgt. J.E. Wilson and two enlisted men. One bright star-like light moved about the sky for 2 hours. Sept. 6, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 4:55 p.m. Witnesses: ex- Congresswoman Mrs. Isabella King and Bill McClain. One orange teardrop-shaped object whirled on its vertical axis, descended very fast, stopped, retraced its path upwards, while whirling in the opposite direction. 1.5 minutes. Sept. 7, 1952; San Antonio, Texas. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: chemist J.W. Gibson and others. One orange object or light (the color of 2,000' F.) exploded into view. Seen for from 3-20 seconds by various observers. Sept. 9, 1952; Rabat, French Morocco. 9 p.m. Witness: E.J. colisimo, a civilian illustrator with USAF Intelligence. One disc with lights along part of its circumference, flew twice as fast as a T-33 jet trainer, in a slightly curved path for 5 seconds. Sept. 12, 1952; Allen, Maryland. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. David Kolb, of the Ground Observer Corps, using binoculars. One white light with a red trim and streamers flew northeast for 35 minutes. Sept. 13, 1952; Allentown, Pennsylvania. 7:40 p.m. Witness: private pilot W.A. Hobler, flying a Beech Bonanza. One object, shaped like a fat football, flaming orange-red color, descended and then pulled up in front of the witness' airplane. Seen for 2 seconds. Sept. 14, 1952; Santa Barbara, California. 8:40 p.m. Witness: USAF C-54 transport pilot Tarbutton. One blue-white light travelled straight and level, then went up. Seen for 30 seconds. Sept. 14, 1952; North Atlantic, between Ireland and Iceland. Witnesses: military persons from several countries aboard ships in the NATO "Operation Mainbrace" exercise. Among the sightings: one blue-green triangle was observed flying 1,500 m.p.h; three objects in a triangular formation gave off white light exhaust at 1,500 m.p.h. Sept. 14, 1952; White Lake, South Dakota. 7 p.m. Witness: Ground Observer Corps observer L.W. Barnes, using binoculars. One red, cigar-shaped object, with three puffs behind it, flew west, then south, and then was gone. Seen 30-40 minutes. Sept. 14, 1952; Ciudad Jaurez, Mexico. 11:30 p.m. to 1:20 a.m., Sept. 15. Witnesses: consulting engineer R. J. Portis and three others. Six groups of 12-15 luminous spheres or discs, which flew in formations varying from arcs to inverted-Y's, very fast. Sept. 14, 1952; Olmstead AFB, Pennsylvania. Time not known. Witness: pilot of Flying Tiger Airlines airplane N67977. One blue light flew very fast on a collision course with the airliner. Note: the summary card attached to the file showed completely different information. Sept. 16, 1952; Portland, Maine. 6:22 p.m. Witnesses: crew of U.S. Navy P2V Neptune patrol plane, visually and via radar. A group of five lights was seen at the same time a long, thin blip was being tracked on radar. Note: consideration was given to this being USAF KC-97 airplanes involved in a refueling operation. The sighting involved 20 minutes. Sept. 16, 1952; Warner-Robbins AFB, Georgia. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: three USAF officers, two civilians. Two white lights flew abreast, at 100 m.p.h., for 15 minutes. Sept. 17, 1952; Tucson, Arizona. 11:40 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Ted Hollingsworth. Two groups of three large, flat, shiny objects flew in tight formations: the first group slow, the second faster. Seen for 2 minutes. Sept. 23, 1952; Gander Lake, Newfoundland, Canada. No time shown. Witnesses: Pepperell AFB operations officer and seven other campers. One bright white light, which reflected on the lake, flew straight and level at 100 m.p.h. for 10 minutes. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*++++++++++++++++++++++ + * * ****** ****** * * ***** + + Dean Madsen, KE0WO * * * * ** * * * * + + Inet: madsendean@bvc.edu * * * * * * * * * * * + + * * **** * * * * * * * * * + + Packet: * * * ** * * * * * + +KE0WO @ KE0WO.#NWIA.IA.USA.NA* * ****** ****** * * ***** + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31580 alt.alien.visitors:9726 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!network.ucsd.edu!ucsbcsl!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again Message-ID: <1a4s97INNf10@gap.caltech.edu> Date: 27 Sep 92 17:50:31 GMT References: <6s4n7d+.sheaffer@netcom.com>, Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article , cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes: =as a former professional astronomer, i've seen countless things that to the =untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like =flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satelites, weather =balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) as long as "hard copy" =keeps katering to people with brains the size of walnuts i fear that these =misrepresentations will continue, unchecked. it is a detriment to all real =scientists and science itself that these things occur and are allowed to ------------------ =occur. ------ Which do you want: real science or a pseudoscientific religion? If the answer is the former, then it's imperitive that these things be "allowed to occur." All we can do in response is to try to educate people. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11908 alt.alien.visitors:9727 sci.skeptic:31581 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66693@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 07:21:08 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 33 Subject: The History of the Earth (4.5 Billion Years). I'm now going to be putting down somethings from a book called Letters To You From Balaron. Now Balaron is sort of a space type individual. He-She is the intelligence that permiates the whole universe. He has existed a long time and claims to have observed the Earth in its very beginning. Whether or not a person believes in him or not the information seems to be of good origin, and it appears to make a lot of sense to me. First of all let me state that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, also Mars is the same age. Their have been civilizations on Earth for the last 3 billion years, with people coming, going and staying here. When you think of life on other planets it doesn't always have to be exactly like we are here. Sometimes it is of a lighter consistency, finer consistency and a higher frequency. Balaron made the following statement, "Remember my dear ones of Earth, that though other worlds may seem hostile to you, they are to the beings inhabiting them, as beautiful, loving and refreshing as is your world to you" After the Earth was formed the first space people that came to it, observed the Earth and they brought along some good type bacteria, benign bacteria and minute plant life. In other words, small plants like mosses and lichens. This produced a sort of a loam soil out of the rocks and water that was on Earth. For a long time the S. P. didn't come back but they sent their first colony here finally and they set a set up a colony here. They brought other types of animal life with them at that time, and these people were in communication with their fellow people on other planets but their friends who were on other planets got in inner glactic wars and they didn't come in contact with people on Earth for quite a long time and the Earth people became cave dwellers and eventually ceased to exist. Now the second colony that came here were more technically advanced than the first colony. They seemed for a time to do well. They disappeared in a huge seismic convulsion, which changed the face of the Earth. End Part 1. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11909 alt.alien.visitors:9728 sci.skeptic:31582 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66694@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 07:41:55 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <1992Sep26.192053.15449@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> Lines: 10 Dear Baby Watchers: Some well thought questions have been asked about our Baby Talkers. Sara has now aged quite a bit from her origninal talking at 20 minutes old. She is considered to be a one year old now. It is my opinion that more and more such cases will show up in the future. Everybody lives before they are born here at this time. In the past it has been the rule to erase a person's memory before they are born. Now this is not being done in some cases. Sara continues to talk but speaks mostly about the future. They say that we suppose she is beginning to forget her life before birth. She lives in San Marco, Italy. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11910 alt.alien.visitors:9729 alt.religion.kibology:3946 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66695@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 08:00:46 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <66451@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5.tellabs.com> Lines: 9 Dear Kiboites: How in the world did I manage to to get on this new group called Alt. religion. Kibology. It's a pleasure to be on anything with Kibo. I once borrowed a book from Don Showen after he had been in a study of L. Ron Hubbard and had seperated himself from Scientology. The book was called something like the following name The First 3 Trillion Years Are The Hardest. It talked about why we cried salty tears and the evolution of crabs or something like that. I believe L. Ron was really on to something. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9730 alt.conspiracy:18541 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: UFO/alien themes in movies Message-ID: <66697@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 08:16:52 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Sep20.052411.5049@u.washington.edu> Lines: 3 Jeff: Sorry to put this information in the Net this way but would you give me a call by E-mail. I need your advice in a certain matter. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: <66699@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 08:30:34 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <92260.154350SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> <1992Sep17.070422.263@ousrvr.oulu.fi> <66284@cup.portal.com> Lines: 5 Dear Voters: Due to the fact that I got all mixed up and didn't accept the nomination when it was offered me, I here-by and forth-with vote for the honorable distinguished gentleman from the world Mr. Kebo and Babagi. John Winston Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31583 alt.alien.visitors:9732 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu!ucsbcsl!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA 'UFO Video' Rides Again Message-ID: <1a4srsINNf10@gap.caltech.edu> Date: 27 Sep 92 18:00:28 GMT References: ,<1992Sep22.161556.3290@ntb.ch> Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu First: Paul, the Followup-to field is NOT intended to be an indication of the subject of the article, or to otherwise identify the article. The Subject: and References: fields do that quite nicely. The Followup-to field is used to direct replies to a set of newsgroups other than that in the article to which you're replying. You might want to read through the documentation on your newsreader software at some point. In article <1992Sep22.161556.3290@ntb.ch>, milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: =>As a former professional astronomer, I've seen countless things that to the =>untrained eye could be considered "space-ships" but are really things like =>flocks of birds, reflections of lights on clouds, satellites, weather =>balloons (and some with bizarre flashing lights!) .. = =Ah, the telling words here are "to the untrained eye could be considered .." = =I think it's unfair to assume that people's brains are "the size of walnuts" =just because theirs is an untrained eye. True. But when they prove to have an untrainable eye, that's a bit different. For example, take the fellow who was arguing in sci.skeptic a few months ago that the film really WAS a UFO being chased by a secret weapon. Please. He repeatedly made assertions concerning the size and the velocity of the objects in the video. He was asked how he'd estimated these parameters. He said it was just "obvious." We pointed out to him why it was NOT obvious, and explained a number of ways that the parameters could be estimated. He owned up to the fact that none of these ways were applicable in this case, but continued to insist that he KNEW the size and velocities of the objects. That's not an untrained eye, that's an untrainable eye. =By the way, this "object" seems to be the one I have on a commercial video, I don't think so. The object under discussion in this thread is from a film taken by the payload bay camera on a space shuttle. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9733 sci.skeptic:31587 alt.conspiracy:18543 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Date: 27 Sep 1992 19:14:48 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 69 Message-ID: <1a5178INNf10@gap.caltech.edu> References: , Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article , jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: >One of the most interesting things about Alternative 3 is that there were >facts reported on the show that were not released to the press untill >over a decade later, and issues came up that seemed to be verifyable >concerning Mars by visual evidence observable from Earth. > >First, the actor portraying a Prof. Girstin reported that a Russion >missile carrying an atomic warhead had blown up on the pad in 1960, >killing hundreds of Russian scientists. The reported mission of the >rocket was to deliver it's warhead to Mars in the attempted terra >forming of the planet. Life magazine stated NASA has >openly discussed the terraforming of Mars, in its May 1991 issue >"Our Next Home, Mars, Bringing >a Dead World to Life"... I guess you're not a science fiction fan. If you were, you'd know that ideas for terraforming Mars and/or Venus have been kicking around for decades, and not just in some sort of secret government offices. Check through the back issues of _Analog_. >It was not reported until 1991 by Russian authorities that in fact a >There are many books on the theory of the secret space effort Yeah. And don't forget Richard Hoagland's (the Cydonia fanatic's) claim of about 8 months ago that the Mars Observer mission had already been launched (via space shuttle). Now, that seemed a bit odd to me at the time, seeing as how the Mars Observer Camera was sitting in a clean-room about 80 feet from my office. Seems even stranger now, since MO seems to have been launched a couple of days ago, aboard a Titan-3. Oh, and THIS time, there's actually telemetry from the MO reaching the Earth. >There is one thing you can be very sure of: >NASA is charged with many duties that they do not speak of, Such as? I'll even help you out: They were involved in an evaluation of alternative energy sources about 11 years ago. Some they thought looked promising (e.g., coal transported as a slurry via a pipeline rather than by rail), some not-so-promising (e.g., solar power satellites and solar thermal generators on the ground) (well, actually, if one did some creative accounting involving charging the costs of SPS to the space shuttle program you could make SPS look viable). >there is a space effort by the US that is not publicised, Evidence, please? >there are technologies being used that could be far in advance of what we >consider to be possible at this time, Evidence? Or just a description of what these technologies are? >and that they won't tell use about it until they feel it will somehow promote >thier agenda. What ever that agenda is; we don't know what it is, because of >a trite little expression called 'national security' that has outlived >its justifications. Ah yes. The fact that we don't know about this PROVES that it's all true, because it must take a really huge and successful conspiracy to keep all this information from us. You forgot to mention that you might be killed for even telling us this much. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 20:52:00 GMT Organization: Netcom - The Net to Get When You've Gotta Get the Net References: <66284@cup.portal.com> <66699@cup.portal.com> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 18 In article <66699@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Voters: Due to the fact that I got all mixed up and didn't accept >the nomination when it was offered me, I here-by and forth-with vote >for the honorable distinguished gentleman from the world Mr. Kebo and >Babagi. Unfortunately, Mr. Kebo and Babagi (or Mr. Kebo and Mr. or Ms. Babagi) does not appear on the ballot as posted here several times. Leader Kibo does appear, as does John Winston. In any event, to be counted your vote must be sent to the voting booth Earth@ed.ac.uk before 00:00 GMT Wednesday, 30 September 1992. >John Winston -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <66715@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 15:04:03 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Lines: 21 Subject: Ruins Of The 30,000 Year Old City. Last Part. During this last part I will put down some information that R. send me in a personal letter. I hope I am not betraying a confidence in telling you about the letter, but didn't say for me not to devulge this information. I do not take the public into these tunnels as they are too dangerous, and besides there is plenty to see on the mountains. Most of the labyrinth of intact tunnels which are connected to the flooded valley called Mu are found under what is now known as the L.A. Civic Center. They were discovered in the 30's by an engineer named Warren Shufelt while searching for oil and gold. Unfortunately, official help from the Federal Government regarding information on the ruins of this once great subterranean city cannot be expected. They have incorporated many of the modern buildings substructures into the ancient underground facilites. This has become a command center for the elite and is one of the many well kept secrets in L.A. County. It is a fascinating story and will be featured in the next issure of UNICUS. I take people on an all day expedition, usually on Sundays. Weekday tours can be scheduled in advance. The total hike is about 5 miles, but we break it up into 3 or 4 rest periods. This is me (John ) talking now. That's the whole story so help me Hanna. The End. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9736 alt.religion.kibology:3953 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!usc!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Nominations for Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <66284@cup.portal.com> <66699@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 04:59:06 GMT Lines: 26 In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >In article <66699@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>Dear Voters: Due to the fact that I got all mixed up and didn't accept >>the nomination when it was offered me, I here-by and forth-with vote >>for the honorable distinguished gentleman from the world Mr. Kebo and >>Babagi. > >Unfortunately, Mr. Kebo and Babagi (or Mr. Kebo and Mr. or Ms. Babagi) >does not appear on the ballot as posted here several times. Leader Kibo >does appear, as does John Winston. In any event, to be counted your vote >must be sent to the voting booth Earth@ed.ac.uk before 00:00 GMT >Wednesday, 30 September 1992. But--is Mr. John Hyphen Winston on the ballot? Is he related to the famous Dr. John Hyphen David who sells those subliminal tapes that glue the two hemispheres of your brain together, in the back pages of Omni magazine? (Ow, my brain's stapled to the silver page.) I'd vote for Charles Babbage, but I'm really a better guy. After all, *I* can pass the Turing test, and *he's* deadsville. -- K. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jcatesii From: jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu (James Cates III) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Sep28.085156.15119@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <66715@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 08:51:56 GMT Lines: 11 First item: Why always refer to intials? Who's R. supposed to be? An initial means nothing to most readers. Absolutely nada. Second : Mu is what some claim to be a lost continent that was in the middle of the Pacific Ocean somewhere. Re. the Sara-'Babytalk' item: How about a source for the info? How about a source other than the std. 'National Examiner'? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Cooper, English, Lear Message-ID: <140354.2AC631A4@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 27 Sep 92 21:36:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Where can I get the Bill English file and the John Lear file? ParaNet, where they first appeared. There is quite a story to this, but I will see about posting them here. The only problem is that they have been seriously discreited and would only serve to consume huge amounts of bandwidth. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Anyone Heard Of Robert Hastings? Message-ID: <140355.2AC631A5@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 27 Sep 92 21:42:03 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 13:37:04 GMT Organization: Netcom - Just Netcom Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 57 The voting booth is now open. Votes timestamped 00:00 GMT Wednesday, 30 September or earlier will be counted. Vote for one candidate as the person you want elected as the single voice to speak for the planet in communications with extraterrestrial intelligences, should they be found to exist. The candidates for Spokesman for Earth are: Mikhail Gorbachev Walter Cronkite Bill Moyers Xaviera Hollander lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu Leader Kibo Cyrus Vance Cicciolina John Major Dr. Timothy Leary Mother Theresa Pierre Salinger Jesus of Nazareth Pele Stephen Hawking Margaret Thatcher Geoff Miller, American Gene Spafford Mel Gibson Carl Sagan Hilary Clinton Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno Boris Yeltsin Steven Spielberg and George Lucas "The Pope" Gary Stollman John Winston The Dalai Lama Pee-Wee Herman Robert Redford Cindy Crawford Richard Nixon John Romer James Burke William F. Buckley Barbra Streisand Princess Diana Rick Gordon "Anybody but David Frost" Dizzy Gillespie Umberto Eco Johnny Carson Nelson Mandela Anita Hill Ingmar Bergman Samuel Ramey Aretha Franklin John Updike Frank Sinatra Li Po Jimmy Carter "Anyone in Bangladesh, Somalia, or parts of the former Soviet bloc that have been ruined by pollution" Ted Williams "someone who does something nice" Geoff Miller, Australian Robert Sheaffer Captain Kangaroo William S. Burroughs Idi Amin Laurie Anderson Mary Shafer Harpo Marx To vote for one candidate, send Email to Earth@ed.ac.uk, with the line Vote: somewhere in the body of the message, for instance: Vote: Dizzy Gillespie or Vote: Mary Shafer Votes must be timestamped between the opening and closing times to be counted, though they may arrive at any time after the opening of the voting booth. Votes will be counted and the results posted Friday, 2 October, 1992. For an expanded version of these instructions, see article "The Voting Booth" <44763@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> in alt.alien.visitors, dated 10:44:06 GMT, 24 Sep 92. -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rayssd!plw From: plw@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (White) Subject: Vallee's Revelations Message-ID: <1992Sep28.121546.22017@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> Sender: news@rayssd.ssd.ray.com (Administrator) Organization: Raytheon Company Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:15:46 GMT Lines: 32 Now that Vallee's book Revelations has come out in paperback, I picked it up. Thank God. Reading the book has provided a psychological attenuator for much of the Cooper/Lear/UMMO/Pleidian/fill in your own fringe group noise that has threatened to drown any interest I may have had in the UFO phenomenon. Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their participants. Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not have. Then he asks the hard questions. For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out the garbage?" "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites picked any traces of this base?" etc. Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges. However, the reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation campaign cannot be firmly grasped. So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your kill file is getting larger and larger. ======================================== Paul White plw@ray.com My opinions are not those of Raytheon ======================================== Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11912 alt.alien.visitors:9742 sci.skeptic:31615 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66752@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 07:22:53 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66693@cup.portal.com> Lines: 6 Dear Astral Travellers: Last night I attempted to send Big Al some telepathic information. I sent him enough Elvis Presley (songs and etc.) to last a person a lifetime. All I got back was a bunch of sick X-rated movie stuff. I believe someone or something is trying to pull an astral joke on me. I am not saying its Big Al's fault though. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <66753@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 07:47:07 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <66715@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep28.085156.15119@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Lines: 19 Dear Ruins People: Now to answer some questions. The reason I use the letter R. is that I had rather use the letter rather than write out the name many times. R. stands for the first letter in the name Robert Stanley. Mu is the continent that sunk in the Pacific and is also sometimes used to denote the city that we are talking about. Mu covered a large area including parts of coastal California but then that gets pretty confusing. It been asked why I don't use some source of information other than the National Examiner. The article about the Piano Player using Plieadian music was from the front page of the Wall Street Journal. The Baby Talk information came from a tabloid magazine (September 29, 1992 Sun page 5). Backing up just a bit, the Wall Street Journal article was tuesday, September 4, 1990. I will have to admit that some of these, even most of these tabloid magazines put out a lot of garbage, lies and a lot of stuff just to get you to buy their paper, but they do sometimes put out some things that have a grain of truth in them that the controlled media will not handle, so I sift throuh this garbage and sometime come up with a pearl. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11913 alt.alien.visitors:9744 sci.skeptic:31616 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov!redd From: redd@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Dale Redd -- MP-6 Operations) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <28SEP199209052567@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66617@cup.portal.com> Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:05:00 GMT Lines: 32 In article <66617@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >Subject: Baby Talk. (stuff deleted) > This last week I saw where Sara Inserra has started talking at 20 minutes >old. The first thing that she said was to tell the nurse to take her to her >mother because she wanted to give her a message from her grandmother (Nana). >She told her that her mother, who died three years ago, wanted to assure her >she was all right and that she would be waiting for her and her husband when >their time comes. Sara told them the following information about heaven; It >is a wonderful place, a lot like Earth, but with perfect weather. There >are hills and mountains, meadows and gardens, lakes and oceans, and you can >live wherever you want. Everyone loves one another and there is harmony >everywhere. happiness is eternal. And God is everywhere, doing whatever it >takes to make you happy. It is the happiest moment of your life expanded >for ever and ever. (stuff deleted) Hey John, For months now you've been posting stuff about your former lives and all your "Mentors'" series of lives, etc. Now, you are saying that people die and go to heaven? What, do some of us get lucky the first time around and end up in heaven after just one terrestial trip and others have to go 'round and 'round a few times with the reincarnation thing? I'm truly confused. Dale (on my first life) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS! Message-ID: <1992Sep28.144329.21589@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 28 Sep 92 14:43:29 GMT References: <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 30 In article <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, David.Grant@f146.n19.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Grant) writes: |> |>Believe me when I say that I am not trying to be a twit.... |> |>But I really would like to meet some ALIENS... Maybe take a ride on a |>flying saucer.... |> |>:-) |>-- Well I tell you what. You send me $10,000 and I will book you a fight aboard the Star Cruser REPTOID nex time it's in dock. Steve Food_for_the_Grays -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11914 alt.alien.visitors:9746 sci.skeptic:31617 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!lanl!mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov!redd From: redd@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Dale Redd -- MP-6 Operations) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <28SEP199209180953@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: news@newshost.lanl.gov Organization: LAMPF Data Analysis Center, Los Alamos, New Mexico References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66693@cup.portal.com> Distribution: usa Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:18:00 GMT Lines: 37 In article <66693@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >Subject: The History of the Earth (4.5 Billion Years). (stuff about space-being Balaron deleted) > After the Earth was formed the first space people that came to it, observed >the Earth and they brought along some good type bacteria, benign bacteria >and minute plant life. In other words, small plants like mosses and lichens. > This produced a sort of a loam soil out of the rocks and water that was on >Earth. > For a long time the S. P. didn't come back but they sent their first colony >here finally and they set a set up a colony here. They brought other types >of animal life with them at that time, and these people were in >communication with their fellow people on other planets but their friends >who were on other planets got in inner glactic wars and they didn't come in >contact with people on Earth for quite a long time and the Earth people >became cave dwellers and eventually ceased to exist. > Now the second colony that came here were more technically advanced than the >first colony. They seemed for a time to do well. They disappeared in a huge >seismic convulsion, which changed the face of the Earth. >End Part 1. >John Winston. The veterans of the psychic (aka Inner Galactic [sic]) wars were actually all the senior officers of the Enterprise who unknowingly sniffed spores from indiginous earth flowers. These spores made them want to stay forever on earth and live in harmony in a utopian society. Unfortunatly, this plan was foiled by the Captain who became angry, and discovered that anger broke the spell of the spores. The space people beamed back to their ship and flew away. (with apologys to Gene Roddenberry) Gee, I can do this stuff too! Dale Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11915 alt.alien.visitors:9747 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66754@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 08:42:20 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 42 Subject: Portal. Part 5. It is supposed to look like a big shaft sticking out the side of a hill 200 feet up the side of the hill. This is said to be due west of Sedalia, Wyoming. Another opening is on an Indian reservation in one of the southern states (probubly around New Mexico or Nevada). It appears that these people used the trains to supply certain outposts that they had throughout this planet. In checking out all of these things the people who were doing the investigating found out that they themselves were the present day physical people who had been born like anyone else on earth, but they had been the same people who had lived in these cities low those many years ago. One of the things that they found was a room that had a front door and a back door. Inside this small room was a viewing screen with a lot of controls. When they operated this device they could project themsleves back in time and if they stepped through the back door they could walk into that time period. This investigting was done about the time of world war II or thereafter. They called the device a portal machine. It was also possible to stick your hand through the window of the back door and only your hand would be seen by the people of that time period. You could have sort of a hand writing on a wall with no body connected to the hand. One of the people who loved to operate this device had sort of an impish personality and his name was Kilroy. In the last few minutes I received an idea from the intelligences that give me my direction that I'm making a mistake and I'm explaing things in a way that my friends with similar backgrounds to myself will understand but other poople won't. They (the space people, spiritual people, temple masters and guardian angles) have suggested that I write thing down so that anybody can underatand it because people in the past have explained things in the only way they knew how. The shepards would call their craft a star when Jesus was born. In the old Testament they would call their craft flaming chariots and the american indians would call their craft flaming canoes. So please pardon me for insulting you people who don't understand my satirical way of saying things but I'll now try to say what the real menaning of what I have been saying. Back in the Old Testament of the Christian and Jewish Bible it talks about a king or ruler having a big gathering and he was going to do something that was not too good. He and the rest of the people then saw a hand with no body, writing on the wall, that warned them and told them what to do. This really scarred them. They changed their way of thinking and things were much better after this happened. This is where we get the saying that a lot of people use "He saw the writing on the wall". End Part 5. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) Subject: Re: aliens are from hell Message-ID: <1992Sep28.135918.26977@tellab5.tellabs.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sunl18 Organization: Huh? References: <19udsrINNfga@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:59:18 GMT Lines: 12 >... >I am a good clean-cut Australian catholic boy.... > >I have read articles (all religious) which say that the UFO phenomenom's >seen around the world are actually demons (from hell...you know, the hot >place) who are sent here by Satan to temp people towards the sciences, >... > >Damien Sawyer ^^^^^^ Oh oh... Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan From: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFOs and the Bible. Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 00:35:09 CDT Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 12 Interesting that people keep going back to the Bible on this subject. In the end times, there will be signs in the sky! I believe UFOs are the signs. Everybody keeps saying that these are the end times, and I am inclined to believe it (I'm a Christian too). UFOs could be increased spirtual activity as the angels (good and bad) get ready for the final battle. Remember, there is a war going on in the spirtual realm! [TK] - Titanium Knight --- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 E-mail: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!sgi!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: NASA Launch Calendar Message-ID: <1992Sep28.162114.26131@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:21:14 GMT Lines: 53 Hello Everyone, Check this out......Looks like NASA is tired of waitng for UFO's, so it seems they are going to launch their own. Wrote Author of this Calendar, waiting for response. + Here's the latest Space Calendar. If you see any updates to the +calendar, then please let me know. Note that launch dates are subject to +change. ========================= SPACE CALENDAR September 27, 1992 ========================= +* indicates change from last month's calendar + October 1992 + ?? - Galaxy 7 Ariane Launch +>>>>>?? - UFO Atlas Launch + 04 - 35th Anniversary, Sputnik Launch (1st Satellite ever) + 05 - Progress Launch (Soviet) + 09 - Galileo, Trajectory Correction Maneuver 15 (TCM-15) + 10 - Draconid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 197.0 degrees) + *10 - Mars Observer, 1st Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-1) +>>>>>12 - SETI Scanning Begins + 12 - 500th Anniversary, Columbus Discovers America + *12-15 - Galileo, Dual Drive Actuator Test #4 (DDA-4) + *12 - DFS-3/Kopernikus Delta 2 Launch + 15 - STS-52, Columbia, Laser Geodynamics Satellite (LAGEOS-II) + 15 - Freja Long March Launch (Sweden/China) + 20 - AUSROC II Launch + 21 - Orionid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 208.4 degrees) Also note that SETI scanning for ETI begins October 12th, I'll give em a month or so until they find something. It's election time you know......... Rod BECKWITH/BECKWITH 92' A vote for me is a vote for myself! -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11916 alt.alien.visitors:9751 sci.skeptic:31621 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Sep28.162327.10485@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 28 Sep 92 16:23:27 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66693@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 19 In article <66693@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: [...] > When you think of life on other planets it doesn't always have to >be exactly like we are here. Sometimes it is of a lighter consistency, finer >consistency and a higher frequency. John - does this mean anything? Or is it just New-Age jargon that sounds neat? On what scale do you measure the 'consistency' or 'frequency' of life? And can life have a darker _and_ finer consistency at the same time? Or do light & fine go together? RA rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu -------------------------- The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and ask for one. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445 From: Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Greetings of the worst sort Message-ID: <368@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 28 Sep 92 16:49:42 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 8 To Stone Cold Gentleman: Jeez! Some males are all the same, whether they're Earthlings or from the 34th planet. You're obviously not very advanced if that's the way you still see women and I suggest you obliterate yourself. (A giant, moist raspberry to you) You are neither a gentleman nor an alien. Aliens have no use only for AMERICAN politics. You think the world centers on you? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!walter!phelix!mdl From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Subject: Re: NASA Launch Calendar Message-ID: <1992Sep28.165450.7228@walter.bellcore.com> Sender: news@walter.bellcore.com Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Organization: Bellcore References: <1992Sep28.162114.26131@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:54:50 GMT Lines: 41 In article <1992Sep28.162114.26131@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: |> Hello Everyone, |> |> Check this out......Looks like NASA is tired of waitng for UFO's, so it |> seems they are going to launch their own. Wrote Author of this Calendar, |> waiting for response. |> |> |> + Here's the latest Space Calendar. If you see any updates to the |> +calendar, then please let me know. Note that launch dates are subject to |> +change. |> |> ========================= |> SPACE CALENDAR |> September 27, 1992 |> ========================= |> |> +* indicates change from last month's calendar |> |> + October 1992 |> + ?? - Galaxy 7 Ariane Launch |> +>>>>>?? - UFO Atlas Launch |> + 04 - 35th Anniversary, Sputnik Launch (1st Satellite ever) |> + 05 - Progress Launch (Soviet) |> + 09 - Galileo, Trajectory Correction Maneuver 15 (TCM-15) |> + 10 - Draconid Meteor Shower (Solar Longitude 197.0 degrees) |> + *10 - Mars Observer, 1st Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-1) |> +>>>>>12 - SETI Scanning Begins |> Info Deleted |> Also note that SETI scanning for ETI begins October 12th, I'll give em a |> month or so until they find something. It's election time you |> know......... Yep. I'll bet the "discovery" of a little ETI would do wonders for funding........ :-) Mike Lynch Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445 From: Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: voting??? Message-ID: <369@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 28 Sep 92 17:08:07 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 2 Hi, this is to Rick. My system seems a bit screwed and I tried to email you my vote. Please let me know if you received it. Thanks. Colleen :) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gossip.pyramid.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!news!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes From: klaes@verga.enet.dec.com (Larry Klaes) Subject: SETI Articles Available in EJASA Back Issues Message-ID: <1992Sep28.181747.8999@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Keywords: EJASA, SETI Sender: usenet@nntpd.lkg.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:12:20 GMT Lines: 50 A number of articles about SETI (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) have been published in the Electronic Journal of the Astronomical Society of the Atlantic (EJASA) since its founding in August of 1989. This journal appears each month on USENET's sci.astro, sci.space, sci.space.news, and sci.misc newsgroups. The EJASA is dedicated to space education and the encouragement of authoring and publishing astronomy and space exploration articles by net users in a formal format. Below is a list of these SETI articles and the EJASA issues they are in. The articles also contain numerous references to books and periodicals on the subject of SETI. You may receive these issues through anonymous FTP from chara.gsu.edu (131.96.5.29) "Does Extraterrestrial Life Exist?", by Angie Feazel - November 1989 "Suggestions for an Intragalactic Information Exchange System", by Lars W. Holm - November 1989 "Radio Astronomy: A Historical Perspective", by David J. Babulski - February 1990 "Getting Started in Amateur Radio Astronomy", by Jeffrey M. Lichtman - February 1990 "A Comparison of Optical and Radio Astronomy", by David J. Babulski - June 1990 "The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum, Parts A-F", by Dr. Stuart A. Kingsley - January 1992 "History of the Ohio SETI Program", by Robert S. Dixon - June 1992 "New Ears on the Sky: The NASA SETI Microwave Observing Project" by the ARC and JPL SETI Project - July 1992 If you require any further assistance in regards to the EJASA and SETI, please let me know. Larry Klaes klaes@verga.enet.dec.com or - ...!decwrl!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes or - klaes%verga.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com or - klaes%verga.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net "All the Universe, or nothing!" - H. G. Wells EJASA Editor, Astronomical Society of the Atlantic Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!news.Brown.EDU!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: voting??? Message-ID: <2t_pvfg.rickg@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:09:08 GMT Organization: Netcom - Arbiting Arguments for Planet Earth References: <369@mindlink.bc.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 11 In article <369@mindlink.bc.ca> Colleen Anderson writes: >Hi, this is to Rick. My system seems a bit screwed and I tried to email you my >vote. Please let me know if you received it. Thanks. Colleen :) Readers are reminded to send all votes to Earth@ed.ac.uk. I can't do anything with them. Nothing interesting, anyway. -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!newsfeed.rice.edu!rice!uw-beaver!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad3.alaska.edu!fsgah From: fsgah@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: nuts Message-ID: <1992Sep27.181500.1@acad3.alaska.edu> Lines: 6 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:15:00 GMT I saw an alien once when I was on a midnight stroll down to Farmers loop road from my house. There was a bright light in the sky and before I knew it there I was on an operating table having my nuts cut off, I was really scared but when the operation was over I felt very good about myself. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gossip.pyramid.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Interdimensional communication... Message-ID: <1992Sep28.185151.20705@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:47:42 GMT Lines: 16 In article <717331015.0@krypta.fidonet.org>, Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.fidonet.org (Andre Eichner) writes... >Hello All! > >Is anybody interested oder working on interdimensional communication with >aliens oder any other? > >cheers > Andre > >--- > * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node (2:2403/10@FidoNet) If this means what I think it means, Andre.... I'm interested. mary Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:5843 alt.conspiracy:18558 alt.alien.visitors:9759 alt.mindcontrol:277 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.mindcontrol Subject: Re: Matrix III Review Message-ID: <1992Sep28.164706.10894@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 28 Sep 92 16:47:06 GMT References: <1992Sep15.193852.21152@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Sep16.024109.15620@ecst.csuchico.edu> <1992Sep27.021017.12897@news.uiowa.edu> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Followup-To: alt.flame.grammar Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 16 In article <1992Sep27.021017.12897@news.uiowa.edu> acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) writes: [a diatribe against the use of smileys] I was gonna write a defense of smileys, in fact I even started it. But it's just not worth it. Does alt.flame.grammar exist? Guess I'll find out. RA rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu -------------------------- The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and ask for one. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!ed.ac.uk!Earth From: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Reminder - vote! Message-ID: <45035@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Date: 28 Sep 92 19:20:05 GMT Sender: nnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk Reply-To: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 12 Dear all: I received a number of votes, but I believe this is less than 1% of the readers of alt.alien.visitors... at the time I am writing this, there are just under 29 hours left to vote, and counting. Remember: to vote reply by email to this article and add the line: Vote: (whoever you want to vote) somewhere in the text. Do not worry too much if you sent already your vote, and you didn't follow these instruction: this only means I'll have to add the vote by hand - do not resend it. If you follow these instructions, however, I'll have to spend less time on it. Thanks. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!uofs!prijat.cs.uofs.edu!bill From: bill@prijat.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <11204@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Date: 28 Sep 92 19:13:03 GMT References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> Sender: news@uofs.uofs.edu Distribution: usa Organization: Department of Computing Sciences Lines: 9 Nntp-Posting-Host: prijat.cs.uofs.edu It's not Fall of 1992 yet!! ;-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | If this statement wasn't here, bill@platypus.uofs.edu | This space would be left intentionally blank bill@tuatara.uofs.edu | #include Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Interdimensional communication... Message-ID: <90774@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 28 Sep 92 20:49:17 GMT References: <1992Sep28.185151.20705@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 25 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <1992Sep28.185151.20705@engage.pko.dec.com>, stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: > > In article <717331015.0@krypta.fidonet.org>, Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.fidonet.org (Andre Eichner) writes... > >Hello All! > > > >Is anybody interested oder working on interdimensional communication with > >aliens oder any other? > > > >cheers > > Andre > If this means what I think it means, Andre.... I'm interested. > > mary I smell a conspiracy. interdimensional communication ? a new AT&T plan ???? J "Friends and Family and Aliens" M. PS: Cattle mutilation are up. "Sneakers". Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!madsendean From: madsendean@bvc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 5/6 Message-ID: <1992Sep28.184211.2125@bvc.edu> Date: 28 Sep 92 23:42:11 GMT Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA Lines: 556 Sept. 21, 1954; Barstow, California. 1 a.m. Witnesses: two local policemen, four U.S. Marine Corps police, one highway patrolman. One red-orange ball giving off sparks, and a smaller light, made a zigzag descent and then hovered. Total of 20 minutes. Sept. 21, 1954; Santa Maria, Azores Islands. 9:45 p.m. Witness: airport guard. One 10'x5' light metallic blue, pecan-shaped object with a clear glass or plastic nose having a door, and with poles or aerials on the nose. Humming or whining, it hovered, landed vertically, 50' away. A blond man, 5' 10" tall appeared, spoke in a strange language, patted the guard on the shoulder, got in the object, hooked up his harness, pushed a button, took off with the object's nose pointed up, then levelled off and climbed vertically. Sighting lasted 2-3 minutes. Sept. 22, 1954; Marshfield, Missouri. 9 a.m. Witnesses: private pilot J.N. Williams, E.J. Ash. A thin, translucent tan asymmetrical boomerang-shaped object revolved, then tumbled down behind some trees. Marks were found in the dirt. Sighting lasted 15 minutes. Sept. 23, 1954; Gatlinburg, Tennessee. 9:45 a.m. Witness: Dave Owenby. Two bright silver, wheel-shaped objects flew from north to south in trail for 2 minutes. Oct. 13, 1954; Nouasseur, French Morocco. 10:05 a.m. Witness: weather observer, following a balloon with his theodolite. One round, flat, silver object flew straight and level for 30 seconds. Oct. 15, 16 and 17, 1954; Kingfisher, Oklahoma. 8:45 p.m. Fifty objects with illuminated bottoms were seen flying in a V-formation, very fast, on successive nights. Only data is on summary card. Oct. 28, 1954; Miho Air Base, Japan. 5:32 p.m. Witnesses: USAF pilots Lt. Col. O.C. Cook and Lt. J.W. Brown, on ground using 7x50 binoculars. One brilliant white, round-oval object climbed in front of clouds, brightened, turned 90 to the north. Seen for 45 seconds. Oct. 29, 1954; Terciera Islands, Azores. 9 p.m. Witnesses: four Portuguese nationals. One object, shaped like a stovepipe with a center bulge and short wings (10' long, 3' in diameter, 3' wings) having concave wingtips, and grey colored. Made a gargling sound when hovering, then disappeared in the glare of airplane landing lights. Sighting lasted 4-5 minutes. Nov. 15, 1954; Augusta, Maine. 44 p.m. Witness: N. Gallant, manager of radio station WFAV. Ten gold, circular objects flew in vertical V-formation, straight and level for 3 minutes. Nov. 19, 1954; Corvallis, Oregon. 4:15 p.m. Witness: P.J. Gunn, assistant professor of art at Oregon State University and ex-U.S. Navy aviation cadet. One bright white light hovered 8.5-9 minutes, then crossed 20 of sky in 3-3.5 minutes. Nov. 28, 1954; Manilla, Phillipine Islands. 10:50 a.m. Witness: one anonymous medical doctor. One flat-bottomed, domed object (65-70' across, 18-20' high), bright orange with yellow discs attached and an exhaust trail. Flew north, stopped, reversed its course during 4 minute sighting. Dec. 3, 1954; Gulfport, Mississippi 12:12 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. S.P. Mellen. One translucent grey, round, flat object rotated on its vertical axis at high r.p.m. for 30 seconds. Dec. 7, 1954; Cape Province, South Africa. 1:15 p.m. Witness: weather officer, using a theodolite. One white, semi-circular, flat object with a dome flew from west to east, then turned north. Sighting lasted 7 minutes. Jan, 1, 1955; Cochise, New Mexico. 6:44 a.m. Witnesses: instructor and student pilot in USAF B-25 bomber/trainer. A metallic disc, shaped like two pie pans face-to-face, and 120- 130' in diameter, paced the B-25, showing both its edge and its face, for 5-7 minutes. Only item in case file was summary form. Jan. 26, 1955; Lakeland, Florida. 6:15 p.m. Witness: J.M. Holland. A black smoke trail made a circle. There was an explosion and some objects fell. No further information in file. Feb.l, 1955; 20 miles east of Cochise, New Mexico. 7:55 p.m. Witnesses: Instructor Capt. D.F. Ritzdorf, aviation cadet F.W. Miller in TB-25 bomber/trainer. One red and white ball hovered off the left wing of the TB-25 for 5 minutes, then made a very fast climb. Total time of sighting was 8 minutes. Feb. 2, 1955; Miramar Naval Air Station, California. 11:50 a.m. Witness: USN Cmdr. J.L. Ingersoll. One highly polished sphere, with reddish-brown coloring, fell, then instantly accelerated to 1,000-1,500 m.p.h. Feb. 10, 1955; Bethesda, Maryland. 10:03 p.m. Witness: E.J. Stein, model maker at U.S. Navy ship design facility. One object, shaped like a small portion of the bottom of the Moon, with a radiant yellow color, hovered for 30 seconds. Its bottom changed to a funnel shape. Total sighting lasted 1.5-2 minutes. April 30, 1955; Travis County, Texas. 7:30 a.m. Witness USAF Wing Intelligence Officer Maj. L..J. Pagozalski. Four black objects in a cluster made a whooshing sound like a zephyr. Sighting lasted 2-3 seconds. May 4, 1955; Keflavik, Iceland. 12:38 p.m. Witnesses: Lt. Col. E.J. Stealy, lst Lt. J.W. Burt. About 10 round, white objects, one of which left a brief smoke trail, flew in an irregular formation, some of them making erratic movements during the 5-8 second sighting. May 23, 1955; Cheyenne, Wyoming. Midnight. Witnesses: USAF Airman/Basic I.J. Shapiro and E.C. Ingber. During a 5 minute period, two slender, vertical rectangles were seen low on the horizon, and two ovals with tops (dark, with dark blue illumination) flew higher. July 29, 1955; Columbus, Nebraska. 10:45 p.m. Witness: Morrice Raymond. Four orange flashing lights and one whIte flashing light moved up and down like yo-yos for 5-6 minutes. Aug. 11, 1955; Iceland. 11:45 a.m. Witness: 2nd Lt. E.J. Marlow. Twelve grey objects, from cigar to egg-shaped, varied their formation from elliptical to wavy line to scattered to straight line to trail formation. Speed varied from hover to 1,000 m.p.h. Sighting lasted 3-4 minutes. Aug. 23, 1955; Arlington, Virginia. 10:45 a.m. Witness: G.M. Park, using a 400x telescope. Several orange lights moved singly or in groups, circling and stopping during 30 minute sighting. Sept. 3, 1955; Bellingham, Washington. Witness: observer Saunders for Ground Observer Corps. One white pinhead moved slowly across 30^ of sky in 15 minutes. No further information. Sept. 7, 1955; Washington, D.C. Witnesses: two photographers, one plate maker for the Army Map Service (one named Smith). One glowing round object flew an arc for 1 minute. Sept. 9, 1955; near Alcoa, Tennessee. 12 noon. Witness: M.N. Dawkins, using binoculars. One brown, almost square object flew with a circular motion for 10-15 minutes. Oct. 8, 1955; Loogootee, Indiana. 4:38 p.m. Witnesses: R.D. Prather, H. Ahern. One round, silver or white object flew straight and level at more than 1,000 m.p.h. for an unstated length of time. Oct. 11, 1955; Pt. Lookout, Maryland. 4 p.m. Witnesses: B. Hale, A. Ostrom. One round object which looked white in the daylight and turned red with sparks toward the end of the 2.5 hour sighting, made a deep roar, unlike an aircraft. Nov. 17, 1955; St. Louis, Missouri. 6:10 a.m. Witness: J.A. Mapes. Twelve round, flat objects, silver on top and dark on the bottom, flew in 4-deep formation, tipping in pitch and roll, for 45 seconds. Nov. 20, 1955; Lake City, Tennessee. 5:20 p.m. Witnesses: Operations Officer Capt. B.G. Denkler and five men of the USAF 663rd AC&W Sqdn. Two oblong, bright orange, semi-transparent objects flew at terrific speed and erratically, toward and away from each other. Observed by various persons form 4 to 15 minutes. Nov. 25, 1955; La Veta, Colorado. 10:30 a.m. Witness: State Senator S.T. Taylor. One dirigible-shaped object (fat front, tapered toward the tail) object, which was luminous green-blue and jellylike, appeared overhead diving at a 45' angle, then reduced angle to 30'. Object seen for 5 seconds. Dec. 21, 1955; Caribou, Maine. 111 p.m. Witness: Roberta V. Jacobs. One round, very bright gold, domed disc made a short climb, rotated, hovered and then accelerated during the 6-8 minute sighting. Feb. 12, 1956; Goose Bay, Labrador, Canada. 11:25 p.m. Witnesses: F-89 pilot Bowen, radar observer Crawford. One green and red object rapidly circled the aircraft while being tracked on radar during 1 minute sighting. No further details. Feb, 19, 1956; Houston, Texas. 6:07 a.m. Witnesses: crew of Eastern Airlines Super Constellation. One intense white light, moving 4-5 times the speed of the airplane, was evaded by the pilot. April 4, 1956; McKinney, Texas. 3:15 p.m. Witnesses: Capt. Roy Hall, U.S. Army, ret.; Charles Anderson and others; some observed through a 6" telescope, others through a 55-200x telescope. One fat, oblong object with two lines around its middle, remained stationary for 6 hours. June 6, 1956; Banning, California. 5:30 a.m. Witness: Mr. Bierman. One thin disc with a small dome, shimmering silver, hovered about 100 yards away for 8-10 seconds, then zoomed up. Aug. 8, 1956; 20 miles south of Quartsite, Arizona. ll p.m. Witnesses: attorneys W.B. Buttermore and J.W. Smith. One blue-white pulsating light flew fast, straight and level, for 5-7 minutes. Aug. 27, 1956; Juniata, Pennsylvania. 9:55 p.m. Witness: Mrs. R.S. Pope. One bright disc with a clear dome flew vertically, then north. A very cold breeze seemed to have been originated by the object during the 3 minute sighting. Sept. 4, 1956; Dallas, Texas. 9 p.m. Witnesses: U.S. Marine Corps T/Sgt. R.D. Rogers and family. One large star, changing to red color, remained stationary for 20 minutes, then went west at 200 kts. (230 m.p.h.). Sighting lasted 23 minutes. Sept. 14, 1956; Highland, North Carolina. 1 a.m. Witness: Scaly, N. Car. policeman O.S. Gryman. Fourteen yellow-to-red round objects with tremendous exhaust, flew in a Vague formation from southwest to east to northeast and back again, while swoooping up and down. Sighting lasted 1.5 hours. Nov. 1, 1956; 60 miles east of St. Louis, Missouri, in Illinois. 5:30 p.m. Witness: USAF Capt. W..M. Lyons, Intelligence Division Chief (Aerial Weather Reconnaissance Officer), flying a T-33 jet trainer. One orange light with a blue tinge, flew across the sky for 2 minutes. Nov. 30, 1956; Charleston AFB, South Carolina. 12:48 p.m. Witness: USAF aerial navigator Maj. D.D. Grimes. One unspecified object flew at an estimated 100' altitude over water for 10 minutes. No further details. Dec. 31, 1956; Guam. 2:10 a.m. Witness: USAF lst Lt. Ted Brunson, flying an F-86D jet interceptor. One round, white object flew under the F-86D, which was unable to turn as sharply as the object. April 25, 1957; Ringgold, Louisiana. Military witness Robertson. Case missing from official files. June 12, ; Milan, Italy. 7:30 p.m. Witness: G.U. Donadio, translator for export-import firm. One object "big as a hen's egg" flew very fast, zigzagged, hovered and revolved, then shot up after 17 minutes. July 27 or 29, 1957; Longmont, Colorado. Early morning. Witness: J.L. Siverly. One thick disc, ice blue, with a top like honeycomb (interconnected hexagons), hovered and rocked below the hill tops for 10 minutes. Middle band was scalloped, bottom had four kidney-shaped forms. July 29, 1957; Cleveland, Ohio. 10:31 p.m. Witnesses: Capital Airlines Capt. R.L. Stimley, First Officer F.J. Downing. One large, round, yellow-white object dimmed once, crossed the bow of the airliner, which then gave chase but was unable to catch it. Sighting last 8 minutes. July 29, 1957; Oldsmar, Florida. 11:45 a.m. Witness: E.E. Henkins. One pale yellow fireball glided into the water and exploded. Viewed for 1 minute. Sept. 20, 1957; Kadena AFB, Okinawa. 8 p.m. Witnesses: S/Sgt. H.T. O'Connor, S/Sgt. H.D. Bridgeman. One object, shaped like a coke bottle without the neck, translucent and fluorescent. Made four 5-10 second passes from north to south, with 4-5 minutes between passes. Oct. 8, 1957; Seattle, Washington. 9:17 a.m. Witnesses: two U.S. Army sergeants. Two flat, round, white objects flew in trail formation along an irregular path, frequently banking during 25-30 seconds. Nov. 6, 1957; Radium Springs, New Mexico. 10:50 p.m. Witnesses: one Las Cruces policeman, one Dona Ana County Deputy Sheriff. One round object--changing from red to green to blue to white-- rose vertically from a mountain top. Sighting lasted 10 minutes. Nov. 8, 1957; Merrick, Long Island, New York. l0:10 a.m. Witness: Mrs. L. Dinner. One bar-shaped object, 3.5' long, giving off blue flashes, made a swishing sound. No further data. Nov. 26, 1957; Robins AFB, Georgia. 10:07 a.m. Witnesses: three control tower operators, one weather observer and four others. One silver, cigar-shaped object suddenly vanished after 8 minutes. Nov. 30, 1957; New Orleans, Louisiana. 2:11 p.m. Witnesses: three U.S. Coast Guardsmen. One round object turned white, then gold, then separated into three parts and turned red. Sighting lasted 20 minutes. Dec. 13, 1957; Col Anahuac, Mexico. 9:35 a.m. Witness: R.C. Cano. Fourteen-fifteen circular, tapered discs, very bright, flew in a formation like a stack of coins, then changed to an inverted-V formation. Sighting lasted 20 minutes. Dec. 17, 1957; near Grand Junction, Colorado. 7:20 p.m. Witness: F.G. Hickman, 17. One round object changed from yellow to white to green to red; red tail was twice as long as the body. It stopped, started, backed up for 45 minutes. March 14, 1958; Healdsburg, California. 8:45 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. W.F. Cummings and one other. A 3' round, black object touched the ground and then took off. Watched for 2 minutes. April 14, 1958; Lynchburg, Virginia. 1 p.m. Witness: USAF Maj. D.G. Tilley, flying C-47 transport. One grey-black rectangular object rotated very slowly on its horizontal axis for 4 seconds. May 9, 1958; Bohol Island, Phillipine Islands. 11:05 a.m. Witness: Phillipine Airlines pilot. One object with a shiny, metallic surface was falling and spinning for 1.5 minutes. June 14, 1958; Pueblo, Colorado. 10:46 a.m. Witness: airport weather observer O.R. Foster, using a theodolite. An object shaped like Saturn, less the bottom part; silver with no metallic luster, flew overhead for 5 minutes. June 20 ,1958; Ft. Bragg, North Carolina. 11:05 p.m. Witness: Battalion Communication Chief SFC A. Parsley. One silver, circular object, its lower portion seen through a green haze, hovered, then oscillated slightly, then moved at great speed. Watched for 10 minutes. Aug. 17, 1958; Warren, Michigan. 7:05 p.m. Witness: A.D. Chisholm. One extremely bright object shaped first like a bell, then like a saucer, hovered for 5 minutes, flipped over and sped away to the west-south-west. Sighting lasted 6-10 minutes. Sept. 1, 1958; Wheelus AFB, Libya. 12:15 a.m. Witness: Philco technical representative A.M. Slaton. One round, blue-white object flew at varying speeds. First sighting lasted 2 minutes, second lasted 1.5 minutes. Oct. 2, 1958; Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania. 2:30 p.m. Witness: naturalist Ivan Sanderson. One dull-grey object, shaped like a pickle with a flat bottom, flew erratically and made loops for 15 seconds. Oct. 27, 1958; Lock Raven Dam, Maryland. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: Phillip Small, Alvin Cohen. One large, flat egg-shaped object affected a car's electrical system and caused a burning sensation on one of its occupants. Sighting lasted 1 minute. Nov. 3, 1958; Minot, North Dakota. 2:01 p.m. Witness: M/Sgt. William R. Butler, medic. One bright green object, shaped like a 10 cent piece, and one smaller, silver round object. First object exploded, then second object moved toward the location of the first at high speed. Sighting lasted 1 minute. March 26 or 27, 1959; Corsica, Pennsylvania. 12:45 p.m. Witness: T.E. Clark. One dark red, barrel-shaped object, 20' long, 6-7' high, descended below some trees during the 3 minute sighting. June 18, 1959; Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: A. Cavelli and R. Blessin, using 7x binoculars. One brown, cigar-shaped object came from below the horizon (close to the witnesses) ascending to 40-50^ above the horizon in 4 minutes. June 30, 1959; Patuxent River NAS, Maryland. 8:23 p.m. Witness: USN Cdr. D. Connolly. One gold, oblate-shaped object, nine times as wide as it was thick, metallic and with sharp edges, flew straight and level for 20-30 seconds. July 25, 1959; Irondequoit, New York. 1 p.m. Witness: technical illustrator W.D. Neva. One thin, crescent moon-shaped object with a small white dome in the center, flew at tremendous speed for 5-10 seconds. Aug. 10, 1959; Goose AFB, Labrador, Canada. 1:28 a.m. Witness: Royal Canadian Air Force pilot Flt. Lt. M.S. Mowat, on ground. One large star-like light crossed 53* of sky in 25 minutes. Sept. 13, 1959; Gills Rock, Wisconsin. 1:05 a.m. Witness: R.H. Daubner. One round yellow light, with eight blue lights within it, and then five larger red lights, flew very fast vertically while making a pulsating jet noise. Sighting lasted 10 minutes. Sept. 13, 1959; Bunker Hill AFB, Indiana. 4 p.m. Witnesses: at least two control tower operators and the pilot of a Mooney private airplane. One pear-shaped object, colored white, cream, and metallic, with a trail under it. Object showed little movement during 3 hours. Attempted intercept by USAF T-33 jet trainer failed. Oct. (3rd or 4th week), 1959; Telephone Ridge, Oregon. 9:15 p.m. Witness: department store manager C.A. Cissman. One bright light approached, hovered about 30 minutes, and then was up and gone in 2 seconds. Oct. 4, 1959; Quezon, Phillipine Islands. 9:25 p.m. Witnesses: USN Lt. C.H. Pogson, CPO K.J. Moore. One large round or oval object, changing from red to red-orange, flew straight and level for 15 minutes. Oct. 6, 1959; Lincoln, Nebraska. 8:15 p.m. Witnesses: Lt. Col. L. Liggett (Selective Service) and wife. One round, white-yellow light made several abrupt turns and flew very fast for 2 minutes. Oct. 19. 1959; P]ainvjlle! Kansas. 9:25 p.m. Witness: Capt. F.A. Henney, engineering instructor at USAF Academy, flying a T-33 jet trainer. One bright yellowish light came head-on at the T-33, the pilot avoided it and the light dimmed. Sighting lasted 30 seconds. Nov. 18, 1959; Crystal Springs, Mississippi. 6:25 p.m. Witness: J.M. Porter. A row of red lights flew slow, then speeded up immensely. Sighting lasted 5-6 minutes. Feb. 27, 1960; Rome AFB, New York. 6:27 p.m. Witnesses: control tower officer Capt. J. Huey and four other tower operators. One light trailing a white fan shape, made a mild descent for 3-4 minutes. 5:55 p.m. Witness: Charles March 4, 1960; Dubuque, Iowa. 5:5 Morris. Three elliptical-shaped objects made a slight climb for 4 minutes. Film exposed during sighting showed no images of the objects. March 23, 1960; Indianapolis, Indiana. 3:35 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. E.I. Larsen. A series of balls, arranged like an "X" with one diagonal line, seen for 3/4 of a minute. Note: little data on the case in the files. April 12, 1960; LaCamp, Louisiana. 9 p.m. Witness: Monroe Arnold. One fiery-red disc exploded four or five times. Analysis of paint samples from explosion proved inconclusive. Sighting lasted 2-3 seconds. April 17, 1960; Richards-Gebauer AFB, Missouri. 8:29 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Maj. J.G. Ford and Link representative A. Chapdelaine, using a 48x telescope. One reddish glow made an odd orbit for 2.5 minutes. April 25, 1960; Shelby, Montana. 7-10 p.m. Witness: Mrs. M. Clark. Five circular objects flew in trail formation, hovered and accelerated and made sharp turns. Case file includes other reports from Mrs. Clark for previous 3 years. July 19, 1960; St. Louis, Missouri. 8:30 p.m. Witness: T.L. Ochs. One round, bright red light flew overhead, stopped and hovered, and then backed up. Sighting lasted 20 minutes. Note: Ochs reported similar sightings on three following nights. Aug. 23, 1960; Wichita, Kansas. 3::24 a.m. Witness: Boeing aeronautical engineer C.A. Komiske. One round object with yellow lights coming from what looked like three triangular windows at bottom. Object was dull orange. Flew in an arc for 2 minutes. Aug. 29, 1960; Crete, Illinois. 4:05 p.m. Witness: farmer Ed Schneeweis. One shiny, round, silver object flew straight up very fast for 18 seconds. Sept. 10, 1960; Ridgecrest, California. 9:50 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. M.G. Evans. Two light gray glowing objects, saucer or boomerang-shaped, which swished when accelerating. Seen 1-2 seconds each. Oct. 5, 1960; Mt. Kisko, New York. 7:37 p.m. Witness: E.G. Crossland. One bright, star-like light moved across 120^ of sky in 20 seconds. Nov. 27, 1960; Chula Vista, California. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. L.M. Hart. One orange-red point of light made huge circles and stopped during the 20-30 minute sighting. Nov. 29, 1960; south of Kyushu, Japan. 6:38 p.m. Witnesses: USAF Lt. Col. R.L. Blwlin (sp?) and Maj. F.B. Brown, flying a T-33 jet trainer. One white light 8lowed and paralleled the course of the T-33 for 10 minutes. Feb, 27, 1961; Bark River, Michigan. 10:15 p.m. Witness: Mrs. LaPalm. One fiery-red, round object, preceded by light rays, slowed and descended, while her dog howled. Sighting lasted 10 minutes. Spring, 1961; Kemah, Texas. Case missing from official files. April 24, 1961; 200 miles SW of San Francisco, California (35' 50' N., 125' 40 W.). 3:34 a.m. Witnesses: aircraft commander Capt. H.J. Savoy and navigator lst Lt. M.W. Rand, on USAF RC-l2lD patrol plane. One reddish-white, round object or light, similar to satellite. Observed for 8 minutes. May 22, 1961; Tyndall AFB, Florida. 4:30 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. A.J. Jones and Mrs. R.F. Davis. One big silver dollar disc hovered and revolved, then suddenly disappeared after 15 minutes. June 2, 1961; Miyako Jima, Japan. 10:17 P.m. Witnesses: lst Lt. R.N. Monahan and Hazeltine Electric Co. technical representative D.W. Mattison. One blue-white light flew erratic course at varying speed, in an arc-like path for 5 minutes. July 7, 1961; Copemish, Michigan. 11 p.m. Witness: waitress Nannette Hilley. One large ball flew slow, split into four after 45 minutes. Four flew close formation, descended and flew away to the west. Total sighting lasted 1 hour. July ll, 1961; Springfield, Ohio. 7:45 p.m. Witnesses: ex-air navigator G. Scott, Mrs. Scott, and neighbors. One round, bright light like shiny aluminum, passed overhead in 20 minutes. July 20, 1961; Houston, Texas. 88 a.m. Witnesses: Trans-Texas Airlines Capt. A.V. Beather, flying DC-3, plus vague report from ground radar. Two very bright white light or objects flew in trail formation for 30 minutes. Aug. 12, 1961; Kansas City, Kansas. 9 p.m. Witnesses: college seniors J.B. Furkenhoff and Tom Phipps. One very large oval object with a fin extending from one edge to the center; like a sled with lighted car running boards. Hovered at 50' altitude for 3-5 minutes, then flew straight up and east. Nov. 21, 1961; Oldtown, Florida. 7:30 p.m. Witnesses: C. Locklear and Helen Hatch. One round, red-orange object flew straight up and faded after 3-4 minutes. Nov. 23, 1961; Sioux City, Iowa. 9:30 p.m. Witness: F. Braunger. One bright red star flew straight and level for 15 minutes. Dec. 13, 1961; Washington, D.C. 5:05 p.m. Witnesses: C.F. Muncy, ex-U.S. Navy pilot W.J. Myers, and G. Weber. One dark diamond-shaped object with a bright tip flew straight and level for 1-3 minutes. Feb. 25, 1962; Kotzbue, Alaska. 7:20 p.m. Witnesses: one U.S. Army private, six anonymous civilians. One red light, trailed 30 seconds later by a blue light. Sighting lasted 5 minutes. March l, 1962; Salem, New York. 10:35 p.m. Witness: Mrs. L. Doxsey, 66. One gold-colored box, 12-14"x3-4", flew straight and level across the horizon for 3-4 minutes. . March 26, 1962; Ramstein Air Base, West Germany. 1:35 p.m. Witness: USAF Capt. J.M. Lowery, from an unspecified aircraft. One thin, cylindrical object--l/3 snout, 2/3 tail fins--flew at an estimated Mach 2.7 (2,000 m.p.h.) for 5-8 seconds. March 26, 1962; Naperville, Illinois. 11:40 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. D. Wheeler, Claudine Milligan. Six or eight red balls, arranged in a rectangular formation, became two objects with lights by the end of the 15 minute sighting. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*++++++++++++++++++++++ + * * ****** ****** * * ***** + + Dean Madsen, KE0WO * * * * ** * * * * + + Inet: madsendean@bvc.edu * * * * * * * * * * * + + * * **** * * * * * * * * * + + Packet: * * * ** * * * * * + +KE0WO @ KE0WO.#NWIA.IA.USA.NA* * ****** ****** * * ***** + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!bvc.edu!madsendean From: madsendean@bvc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bluebook of Unknowns 6/6 Message-ID: <1992Sep28.184328.2126@bvc.edu> Date: 28 Sep 92 23:43:28 GMT Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA Lines: 619 March 26, 1962; Westfield, Massachusette. 10:45 p.m. Witnesses: many unidentified young people. One large red ball flew or fell down, then went back up during 3-10 minute sighting. Note: May 26? April 4, 1962; Wurtland, Kentucky. 0150Z. Witnesses: G.R. Wells and J. Lewis, using 117x telescope. One small object changing brightness, gave off smoke but remained stationary like a comet for 6 minutes. Case missing from official files. June 21, 1962; Indianapolis, Indiana. 4 a.m. Witnesses: Lt. Col. H. King and tail gunner M/Sgt. Roberts, aboard a B-52 heavy jet bomber. Three bright, star-like lights: one seen; 10 seconds later, two more were seen. Total sighting took 3 minutes. June 30, 1962; Richmond, Virginia. 9 a.m. Witness: 13 year old Meadors. One red, star-like light seen for an unspecified length of time. No further details in files. July 19, 1962. Bayhead, New Jersey. 9:30 p.m. Witnesses: C.T. Loftus, H. Wilbert. Four or five lights darted about the sky for 7-10 minutes. July 29, 1962; Ocean Springs, Mississippi. 11:20 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. M.O. Barton. One bright cherry-red, diamond-shaped object flew slow, hovered, made fast 1/2 loops for l0 minutes. Aug. 18, 1962; Bermuda. 5 p.m. Witnesses: owner M. Sheppard and chief announcer A. Seymour of radio station. Three dull-white, egg-shaped objects wavered as they moved for 20 minutes. Sept. 21, 1962; WSW of Biloxi, Mississippi, in the Gulf of Mexico. 7:37 p.m. Witness: fishing boat captain S.A. Guthrie. Two objects, red and black with orange streaks, one as big as the Moon, and the other smaller. Arced across the sky for 13 minutes. Oct. 23, 1962; Farmington, Utah. 3 p.m. Witness: R.O. Christensen. One grey and silver ball, trailing what looked like twine with two knots in it, swerved, and climbed away at a 45' angle, making a sound like a flock of ducks (rushing air). Twenty seconds. Nov. 17, 1962; Tampa, Florida. 99 p.m. Witness: F.L. Swindale, college graduate and ex-USMC Capt. Three bright star-like lights approached, hovered and bounced, then faded after 11-15 minutes. May 18, 1953; New Plymouth, New Zealand. 10:30 p.m. Witness: C.S. Chapman, 15. One white, fuzzy, flashing light hovered and darted around for 4 minutes. May 22, 1963; Pequannock, New Jersey. 10:45 p.m. Witness: Myra Jackson. Four pink wheels spun or rolled very fast from east to west in succession, each taking about 1 second. June 15, 1963; 200 miles north of Venezuela (14* 27' N., 69* 57' E.). 10:39 a.m. Witness: 3rd Mate R.C. Chamberlin, of S/ Thetis. One luminous disc travelled at 1.5 times the speed of satellite for 3-4 minutes. Summer, 1963; Middletown, New York. 9:30 or 10 p.m. Witness: Grace Dutcher. Eight-ten lights moved at random, then in an oval formation, then singly, during the 1 minute sighting. July 1, 1963; Glen Ellyn, Illinois. 8 p.m. Witness: R.B. Stiles, ll, using a theodolite. One light, the size of a match head at arm's length, flashed and moved around the sky for 1.5 hours. Aug. 11, 1963; Warrenville, Illinois. 10 p.m. Witness: R.M. Boersma. One light moved around the sky for 20 seconds. Aug. 13, 1963; St. Gallen, Switzerland. 8:04 p.m. Witness: A.F. Schelling. One fireball became a dark object after 4 minutes, and then a bigger glow, a minute later, and finally exploded. Note: same witness had another, undescribed, sighting on Aug. 14 Sept. 14, 1963; Susanville, California. 3:15 p.m. Witness: E.A. Grant, veteran of 37 years training forest fire lookouts for the U.S. Forest Service. One round object intercepted a long object and either attached itself to the latter or disappeared. Sighting lasted l0 minutes. Sept. 15, 1963; Vandalia, Ohio. 66 p.m. Witness: Mrs. F.E. Roush. Two very bright gold objects--one shaped like a banana and the other like an ear of corn--one remained stationary, the other moved from west to north during 10 minutes, Oct. 4, 1963; Bedford, Ohio. 3:32 p.m. Witness: R.E. Carpenter, 15. One intense oblong light with tapered ends and surrounded by an aqua haze, flashed and flickered while stationary for 15 seconds. Oct. 23, 1963; Meridian, Idaho. 8:35 p.m. Witnesses: several unnamed students, including Gordon. One object shaped like a circle from below and like a football from the side, hovered low over the observers, making a deep, pulsating, loud, extremely irritating sound, for 6 minutes. Oct. 24, 1963; Cupar Fife, Scotland. No time given. Witnesses: A. McLean (12) and G. McLean (8). One light moved for an unspecified length of time. No further details in files. Note: Project Blue Book chief Maj. H. Quintanilla told the youngsters, in a letter, that this was "one of the most complete" of the unexplained cases for the year. Dec. 11, 1963; McMinnville, Oregon. 7 a.m. Witness: W.W. Dolan, professor of mathematics and astronomy, and dean of the faculty of Linfield College. One bright, star-like light hovered, slowed, dimmed and flashed in 1 minute. Dec. 16, 1963; 800 miles north of Midway Island (40* N., 175* 54' W.). 5:05 p.m. Witness: unspecified persons aboard a military aircraft. One white light blinked 2-3 times per second as it moved very fast across the sky for 15 seconds. April 3, 1964; Monticello, Wisconsin. 9 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. R. Wold (he was a graduate student in anthropology). Four huge red lights in a rectangular formation, with a white light above, were near the ground, tilted and flew away after 3-4 minutes. April 11, 1964; Homer, New York. 6:30 p.m. Witnesses: physiotherapist W.B. Ochsner and wife. Two cloud-like objects darkened; one shot away and returned during the 30-45 minute sighting. April 24, 1964; Socorro, New Mexico. 5:45 p.m. Witness: Socorro policeman Lonnie Zamora. Watched object with flame underneath descend toward the desert. Two small humanoids observed near vertical oval on ground. Later watched object take off with a roar, go silent and fly away. Burning and charred brush found at landing sight. May 9, 1964; Chicago, Illinois. 10:20 p.m. Witness: J.R. Betz, U.S. District Court reporter. Three light green crescent-shaped objects, about half the apparent size of the Moon, flew very fast in tight formation from east to west, oscillating in size and color for 3 seconds. May 18, 1964; Mt. Vernon, Virginia. 5:15 p.m. Witness: civil engineer F. Meyers. One small, glowing white oval split twice after moving from the right of the Moon around to the left. Sighting lasted 17 minutes. May 26, 1964; Cambridge, Massachusetts. 7:43 p.m. Witness: P. Wankowicz, RAF pilot and ex-Smithsonian satellite tracker. One thin, white ellipsoid (3.5 times as long as wide) flew straight and level for 3-4 seconds. May 26, 1964; Pleasantview, Pennsylvania. 11 p.m. Witness: Rev. H.C. Shaw. One yellow-orange light, shaped like the bottom of a ball, was spotted in a field and chased down the road for 2 miles. June 13, 1964; Toledo, Ohio. 9:15 p.m. Witness: B.L. English, announcer for radio station WTOD. Three glowing white spheres, glowing red on their sides, moved slow, hovered and then moved in circles very fast, all the while making a low, rumbling sound. July 16, 1964; 15 miles south of Houghton Lake, Michigan. 11:15 p.m. Witness: Northern Air Service pilot K. Jannereth. Four white lights in a stepped-up echelon formation, were joined by two more. They closed in on the airplane, then rapidly slowed nd flew along with it for a total of 5 minutes. July 20, 1964; Littleton, Illinois. 4:45 a.m. Witness: J.J. Winkle. One 60' diameter round-topped, flat-bottomed object with a long acetylene-colored flame shooting downward, flew straight and level, made a half loop, then rose up. Sighting lasted l minute. July 27, 1964; Norwich, New York. 7:30 p.m. Witness: Duabert, engineering supervisor. One aluminum sphere with a luminous ring, remained stationary for 4-5 minutes. July 27, 1964; Denver, Colorado. 8:20 p.m. Witness: A. Borsa. One white ball of fire, the size of a car, climbed slowly, then speeded up. Sighting lasted 2-3 minutes. Aug. 10, 1964; Wake Island. 5:16 a.m. Witnesses: aircraft commander Capt. B.C. Jones and navigator lst Lt. H.J. Cavender, in parked USAF C-124 transport plane. One reddish, blinking light approached the runway, stopped and made several reverses during 2 minutes. Aug. 15, 1964; New York, New York. 1:20 a.m. Witness: S.F. D'Alessandro. One 10'x5' bullet-shaped object with wavy lines on the rounded front part and six pipes along the straight rear portion, made a "whishhh" sound. Witness' dog growled during . sighting. Aug. 15, 1964; Yosemite National Park, California. 8:15 a.m. Witnesses: E.J. Haug, of the San Francisco Orchestra and the San Francisco Conservatory of Music; and C.R. Bubb, a high school mathematics teacher. Three bright silver, round objects, in a stack formation, flew very fast, changing positions within the formation. The sound of rushing air was heard during the 3-4 second sighting. Aug. 18, 1964; Atlantic Ocean, 200 miles east of Dover, Delaware. 12:35 a.m. Witnesses: Maj. D.W. Thompson and First Pilot lst Lt. J.F. Jonke, on a USAF C-124 transport plane. One round, blurred, reddish-white object was on a collision course with the C-124 from ahead and below. The airplane evaded the object. Sept. 10, 1964; Cedar Grove, New Jersey. 7:09 p.m. Witness: chemist P.H. DePaolo. Four white lights, 3-4 apart, were seen to the north, going west for 45 seconds. Nov. 14, 1964; Menominee Falls, Wisconsin. 9:40 p.m. Witnesses: Dr. G.R. Wagner, MD; and two girls. Three dim, reddish lights flew through a 160^ arc in 5-6 seconds. Nov. 19, 1964; 1,400 miles east of Tokyo, Japan (34' 55' N., 164* 05' E.). Witnesses: unidentified military persons. One bright white flashing light was travelling from horizon to horizon in 20 seconds. Jan, 23, 1965; Williamsburg, Virginia. 8:40 a.m. Witness: Mr. T.F. Mains. One mushroom or lightbulb-shaped object, 75-80' high, 25' diameter on top and l0' bottom diameter; metallic grey with a red-orange glow on the near side and a blue glow on the far side. The object made a sound like a vacuum cleaner. The witness' car electrical system was affected as the object moved away at an altitude of 4'. The sighting lasted 25 seconds. March 4, 1965; Corvallis, Oregon. 9:23 p.m. Witness: W.V. Harrison. Three lights rose from the ground, several seconds apart. The next day, an oily spot was found at the site. March 8, 1965; Mt. Airy, Maryland. 7:40 p.m. Witness: J.H. Martin, instrument maker for U.S. Bureau of Standards. Six lights flew overhead slowly for 3 minutes. April 4, 1965; Keesler AFB, Mississippi. 4:05 a.m. Witnesses: USAF A/2c Corum, a weather observer; confirmation by college student R. Pittman not clear from available data. One 40' black, oval object with four lights along the bottom, flew in and out of the clouds for 15 seconds. May 7, 1965; Oxford, Michigan. 7:30 p.m. Witness: M.E. Marshall. One light, like a satellite, split into two parts, one of which was copperish color, then two more joined up. One object may have been tumbling. Sighting lasted 1 minute. July 6, 1965; Kiel, Wisconsin. 9:30 p.m. Witness: Mrs. E.R. Hayner. One flashing light, like a satellite, was seen for less than 1 minute. No further data was in the files. July 25, 1965; Castalia, Ohio. 9:15 p.m. Witness: amateur astronomer M.D. Harris, 16. One bright blue star crossed 90 of sky in 10-15 seconds. Aug. 4, 1965; Dallas, Texas. 9:30 p.m. Witness: J.A. Carter, 19. One light flew fast, straight and level for 12 seconds. No further data in files. Aug. 4, 1965; Tinley Park, Illinois. 11:35 p.m. Witnesses: two unnamed 14 year olds. One light moved around the sky for 16-17 seconds. No further data in files. Aug. 19, 1965; Cherry Creek New York. 8:20 p.m. Witnesses: Mrs. William Butcher, son Harold, 17, and children. A large elliptical object, with a reddish vapor underneath, came close to the ground, then shot straight up into the clouds a few seconds later. Radio drowned out by static, a tractor engine stopped. When the object was on the ground, a steady beeping sound could be heard. Afterwards, a strange odor was noticed, and the next day, a purplish liquid, 2"x2" marks and patches of singed grass were found at the site. A bull bellowed and tried to break its bonds. Aug. 30, 1965; Urbana, Ohio. 10:30 p.m. Witnesses: M.A. Lilly, N. Smith, T. Nastoff. One white ball, 5-8' in diameter and trailed by a 2-3' light, hit the road 100' in front of the witness' car, bounced and flew away. Sighting lasted 3-4 seconds. Sept. 3, 1965; Exeter, New Hampshire. 2 a.m. Witnesses: Exeter Patrolmen Eugene Bertrand, Jr. and David Hunt, and Norman Muscarello. One large, dark, elliptical object with a row of red lights around it, moved slowly and erratically around houses and trees, while lights blinked in sequence. Farm animals were very noisy. Sighting lasted about 1 hour. Sept. 3, 1965; Damon, Texas. 11 p.m. Witnesses: Brazoria County Chief Sheriff's Deputy Billy McCoy and Deputy Robert Goode. One triangular object, 150-200' long, 40-50' thick at middle and dark grey, with a long, bright, pulsing, purple light on the right side and a long blue light on the left side. Came from distance to 150' off highway and 100' in the air. Purple light illuminated ground beneath object and interior of police car. Driver felt heat on his left arm. Initial sighting lasted 5-10 minutes. Second sighting.occurred later that night. Sept. 25, 1965; Chisholm, Minnesota. 9:55 a.m. Witness: Bett Diamon. Five orange lights in a row flew fast and made an abrupt turn during the 1 minute sighting. Sept. 25, 1965; Rodeo, New Mexico. 10 p.m. Witnesses: Dr. George Walton, physical chemist, and wife. Two round white objects flew side-by-side, at 30-50' altitude, pacing the witnesses' car for 6 minutes. Oct. 4, Middletown, Ohio. Wiitness: Tucker. Case missing from official files. Feb. 2, 1966; Salisbury, North Carolina. 11:15 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. L.J. Wise. One silver, diamond-shaped object with several balls constantly in very fast motion around it, and much light. Object hovered over the trees for 3-4 minutes, while a dog barked, and then zipped out of sight. Sighting lasted 1 hour. Feb. 6, 1966; Nederland, Texas. 5:45 a.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. K.R. Gulley. One yellow, lighted object at 500; altitude and a pulsating red glow on the lawn. The house lights went out, and high frequency bothered the witnesses' ears. Sighting lasted 5-10 minutes. March 20, 1966; Miami, Florida.. 12:15 a.m. Witness: USAF Res. Maj. K.C. Smith, employee of NASA at Cape Kennedy. One pulsating light which varied from white to intense blue made a jerky ascent and then rapidly accelerated away to the north after 5 minutes. March 22, 1966; Houston, Texas. 1:30 a.m. Witness: S.J. Musachia. White flashing lights, and the air full of smoke. Lit up witness' apartment. Sound of "yen " heard up close during 4 minute sighting. March 23, 1966; Temple, Oklahoma. 5:05 a.m. Witness: W.E. Laxson. One large object, like a wingless C-124 transport plane; 75' long, 8' high and 12' wide; with a bubble canopy on top. Sat on highway, a man dressed in military work clothes entered, and it rose after about 40 seconds. March 26, 1966; Texhoma, Oklahoma. Midnight. Witnesses: Mrs. P.N. Beer and Mrs. E. Smith. One flashing light buzzed their car from the front then hovered. Sighting lasted l0 minutes. April 5, 1966; Alto, Tennessee. 11:55 p.m. Witness: W. Smith. One oval object with a dark top, appeared cone-shaped when moving. It made a high-frequency noise during the 2.5 hour sighting. April 5, 1966; Lycoming, New York. 3 a.m. Witness: Lillian Louis. One vapor-like sphere hovered and spun at low altitude, shooting its exhaust onto the ground below. Sighting of 1 minute. April 30, 1966; Sacramento, California. 3:15 a.m. Witness: Anita Miller. One light moved around the sky for 2.5 hours. No further detail in files. May 7, 1966; Goodfellow AFB, Texas. 9:55 p.m. Witness: A/3c W.L. Whitehead. One short, cylindrical object with pointed ends and a yellow light at one end and blue light at the other, flew straight and level for 35 seconds. June 6, 1966; Spooner, Wisconsin. 9:30 p.m. Witness: Dorothy Gray. Two domed discs with sparkling upper surfaces and square windows in their tops, revolved above a lake, apparently causing strange behavior of the lake water during the 25 second sighting. June 8, 1966; Kansas, Ohio. 6:45 a.m. Witness: Max Baker. One bright silver, cigar-shaped object, as long as an airliner, buzzed the witness' car. Sighting lasted 1 minute. June 18, 1966; Burnsville, North Carolina. 12:30 a.m. Witnesses: members of a Boy Scout group, including Sterrett. One bell-shaped object with three flashing red lights hovered for 5 hours and was then joined by six others. June 27, 1966; 400 miles east of Wake Island (19* N., 172* E.). 4 a.m. Witness: Radio Officer Steffen Soresen, of the S/ Mt. Vernon Victory. One "cloud" expanded with a light inside, and then accelerated away after several minutes. July l1, 1966; Union, Pennsylvania. 7:45 p.m. Witnesses: Carl Wood and Charles Hawthorne. One large (100' wide, 20' high) bright red object with small windows and yellow lights. The object emitted a humming noise, seemingly from the outside, and a qrinding noise which seemed to come from inside. Observed for 1 hour. July 25, 1966; Vanceboro, North Carolina. 1 a.m. Witness: college student James Clark. One object which changed color from orange to red to blue to green and back to orange. Followed witness' car at high speed, then stopped and hovered over the car. Rose and flew up and out of sight in less than 5 seconds. Entire sighting involved about 1 hour. July 31, 1966; Presque Isle State Park, Pennsylvania. 7:25 p.m. Witnesses: Douglas Tibbetts, 16; Betty Klem, 16; Anita Haifley, 22; and Gerald Labelle, 29. Square or hexagonal object with edges lit or reflecting light, came tumbling down from right to left. Stopped 5-10' above the beach and settled heavily down; circle of spotlights at top were visible when it was on the ground. Sighting lasted 5 minutes. . Aug. 19, 1966; Donnybrook, North Dakota. 4:50 p.m. Witness: U.S. Border Patrolman Don Flickenger. Round disc with domed top, 30' in diameter and 15' high, colored white, silvery or aluminum. Moved across a valley from the southeast, hovered over a reservoir, appeared to land in a small field, then rose up into clouds very rapidly. Sighting lasted 5 minutes. Aug. 23, 1966; Columbus, Ohio. 77 p.m. Witnesses: Broomall and Gilpin. One circular, luminous white object split into five objects and all streaked away toward the west. Sighting lasted 15 minutes. Aug. 26, 1966; Gaylesville, Alabama. 8:50 p.m. Witnesses: Mr. and Mrs. Funk and their three children. A cluster of four small, glowing, orange-yellow lights in a triangular formation, moved from east to west for 4.5 minutes. Sept. 1, 1966; Willsboro, New York. 2:45 p.m. Witness: T.H. Ridman. One oval object with lights that flashed red and white and occasionally blue, travelled west, then disappeared downward. It returned, several minutes later, at which time a loud noise was heard. The entire sighting lasted 30 minutes. Sept. 6, 1966; Suffolk County AFB, New York. 6:50 p.m. Witnesses: Stahl and Ladesic. One white cylinder of light came from the east at high speed, stopped and hovered for 3 minutes, and then turned and slowly disappeared. Sighting lasted 8 minutes. Sept. 9, 1966; Franklin Springs, New York. 9 p.m. Witness: Jacobson. One solid object, larger than an army tank, with lights all around it, made a low humming sound and disappeared into woods at the end of the 30 minute sighting. Sept. 13, 1966; Gwinner, North Dakota. 7:30 a.m. Witness: Rotenberger. One silvery-grey ellipse with a clear bubble protruding from its top, hovered about a mile away, then landed within 300 yards and took off very fast. It made a low-pitched whine during the 5 minute sighting. Sept. 28, 1966; Wilmington, Ohio. 3:38 p.m. Witness: Clarke. Three round, oval-shaped, aluminum-colored objects with rotating rings around them. Two remained stationary, while the third varied its altitude during the 90 second sighting. Oct. 5, 1966; Osceola, Wisconsin. Witnesses: several members of one family. One small, bright orange, moon-shaped object remained stationary in the northeast for about 20 minutes, then suddenly took off very fast to the WNW. Oct. 23, 1966; Southhampton, Long Island, New York. 6 p.m. Witness: Mr Acquino. One object with arms in front of it which sparkled like an arc-light. Traveled south along some power lines, then turned southwest. Made a slight humming sound during the 4 minute sighting. Oct. 26, 1966; Cold Bay Air Force Station, Alaska. No time given. Witness: civilian control tower operator Ralston. One white object approached runway at 50' altitude. Runway lights were then turned on, and object accelerated and climbed away so fast that witness was unable to use binoculars. Sighting lasted 3 seconds. Nov. 8, 1966; Saginaw, Michigan. At night. Witness: college graduate Annis. A group of lights that flashed and changed color hung stationary, almost touching the road, and would abruptly vanish during the 5 minute sighting. Dec. 25, 1966; Monroe, Oregon. 33 a.m. Witnesses: civilians and military persons. Three round objects, as large as cars, gave off vapor, then became three bright reddish-orange lights. Blast at beginning of 90 minute sighting pushed one witness against a car. Feb. 6, 1967; Odessa, Delaware. 8:45 p.m. Witnesses: Donald and Marie Guseman. One large, Saturn-shaped object--5O' in diameter and 20' high--with two bright lights, a green light on one side and a red light on the other. Hovered motionless over the trees, then slowly moved north and suddenly disappeared after 2 minutes. Feb. 12, 1967; Grand Rapids, Michigan. 3:40 a.m. Witness: Mr. Lou Atkinson. Four fluorescent, football-shaped objects, a dull, almost grey luminous color; flew northeast in a very rigid formation for 4-10 seconds. Made a chirping noise. Feb. 16, 1967; Stoughton, Wisconsin. 9:11 p.m. Witness: Miss Lynn Marsh. One light with faded edges seemed to follow observer in her car for 5-6 minutes. Feb. 20, 1967; Oxford, Wisconsin. 3:10 a.m. Witness: USAF veteran/truck driver Stanton Summer. One orange-red object flew parallel to truck for 2 minutes. Feb. 27, 1967; Grand Haven, Michigan. 8:19 p.m. Witnesses: Sheriff Grysen, wife and others. Large white light, with smaller red and green lights seen to the sides. Made almost instantaneous 90^ turn to left, shot out over road and stopped, moving too fast to follow. Sighting lasted 1 hour, 11 minutes. March 6, 1967; Benton Harbor, Michigan. 12:01 a.m. Witnesses: Jerome Wolanin, assistant news director of radio station and former policeman, and wife. One round saucer or oval-shaped object with red, green and yellow lights around bottom rim which pulsated red. Flew level, east to west, and was joined by second object from west. First object opened top, second came over and hovered for 30 seconds and disappeared. Sighting lasted more than 40 minutes. Objects made hissing sound. March 6, 1967; Galesburg-Moline, Illinois. 4:25 a.m. Witness: Deputy Sheriff Frank Courson. One object shaped like a rubber cup which is placed under furniture leg, with a dome set in the cup. Bottom of object spun rapidly, rim pulsated red. Approached witness and passed overhead at low altitude, making a hieeing sound. March 9, 1967; Galesburg, Illinois. 7:10 p.m. Witnesses: two housewives. One object shaped like a pancake with a rounded top; object was pulsating red, with red lights around its rim. Approached witnesses and seemed to explode with a brilliant white light that lasted 10 seconds and almost blinded them. Then it accelerated to the north and disappeared. March 9, 1967; Onawa, Iowa. 9:05 p.m. Witness: Jack Lindley. One bright white, saucer-shaped object, as big as a jet airliner, flew straight and fast to the east for 2 minutes. March 22, 1967; Wapello, Iowa. 10:20 p.m. Witness: Douglas Eutsler, 15. Fluorescent, solid, multicolored lights stood still, then flew away at high speed after 1 minute. March 24, 1967; Belt, Montana. 99 p.m. Witness: truck driver Ken Williams. One dome-shaped object, emitting a bright light, landed in a ravine. As the witness approached, it took off and settled back, hidden from the highway. Sighting lasted several minutes. March 26, 1967; New Winchester, Ohio. 4 p.m. Witnesses: man, woman, three boys. One oval object, which looked like copper or brass with the sun shining on it, flew from southeast to northwest with tumbling motion for 30 minutes. May 17, 1967; Rural Hall, North Carolina. 8:30 p.m. Witness: Red Ledford. One round, orange-colored object, similar in size to a small aircraft, zigzagged back and forth over a jet that was heading northeast for 5 minutes. June 24, 1967; Austin, Texas. 3:12 a.m. Witness: artist Ray Stanford. One solid, blue-white, elliptical object flew from northwest to northeast and stopped, seemingly in response to flashlight signal, for 1.5 minutes. The object then proceeded along its original path at high speed and disappeared behind clouds. Sighting lasted 9 minutes. June 29' 1967; Scotch Plains, New Jersey. 1:30 a.m. Witness: truck driver Damon Brown. One oyster-shaped object--2OO' wide, and 25-30' thick--with a huge red light at each end and one on the bottom, and a row of blue lights along the bottom. Circled m.n aircraft, hovering then moving rapidly, and then followed the witness' car for about 500', veered south and departed at great speed after 8-10 minutes. July 10, 1967; Lizelia, Mississippi. 5:50 p.m. Witness: golf pro Harold Washington (Capt, USMC, ret.). One object with a dome, the top colored gunmetal blue, the bottom the color of old lead. Moved east, crossed the highway tilted upward, moved to the right, accelerated and disappeared into the clouds after 3-5 seconds. Object made a swishing sound. Oct. 18, 1967; Lake Charles, Louisiana. 9 p.m. Witness: John Herbert. One bright, fiery ball flashed four times while moving east, just above the tree tops. Sighting lasted 1 minute. Feb. 9, 1968; Groveton, Missouri. 4:20 a.m. Witness: Mr. R.W. Bland. One object, 100' in diameter, with concave sides having "portholes" in the center of each gave off yellow-green light. Hovered 25' above ground, then moved rapidly toward the southwest. Gave off pulsating sound, like a length of wire whirled at high speed above the head. Sighting lasted 1-5 minutes. Sept. 15, 1968; near Ocala, Florida. 9:30 p.m. Witness: missionary pilot Jay Cole, flying a Beech C-45 twin-engined utility plane. One light performed aerobatics for 15 minutes and then vanished. A second light appeared, heading toward them on a collision course, made a 90* turn and disappeared. Later, ground radar told them a target was following them. Sightings lasted 15 minutes. Nov. 23, 1968. Newton, Georgia. 8:05 p.m. Witness: Mr. Jones, accountant. One oblong light, 120-150' wide. Hovering 75' above the ground, it emitted a beam that lit the ground. Radio gave off static, then car engine stopped. Light flew away vertically and car engine restarted itself. Sighting lasted 3-4 minutes. Jan. 17, 1969; Crittenden, Virginia. 3:24 a.m. Witness: Mr. Roman Lupton, test facility mechanic. Several amber lights--one of them blinking--in an elliptical formation, flew forward slowly while moving up and down, then turned and disappeared after 2 minutes. Made a humming sound. -----END OF ARTICLE -------------------------------------------------- -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*++++++++++++++++++++++ + * * ****** ****** * * ***** + + Dean Madsen, KE0WO * * * * ** * * * * + + Inet: madsendean@bvc.edu * * * * * * * * * * * + + * * **** * * * * * * * * * + + Packet: * * * ** * * * * * + +KE0WO @ KE0WO.#NWIA.IA.USA.NA* * ****** ****** * * ***** + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11918 alt.alien.visitors:9765 sci.skeptic:31634 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!sample.eng.ohio-state.edu!purdue!yuma!lamar!arsmith From: arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: 29 Sep 92 00:29:35 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66693@cup.portal.com> <66752@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account) Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 Lines: 13 In article <66752@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Astral Travellers: Last night I attempted to send Big Al some >telepathic information. I sent him enough Elvis Presley (songs and etc.) >to last a person a lifetime. All I got back was a bunch of sick X-rated >movie stuff. I believe someone or something is trying to pull an astral >joke on me. I am not saying its Big Al's fault though. I'm sorry, dude. Truth be told, I didn't recieve nothin'. I was even there, from 10:58 to 11:13 pacific time. I did my best to stick my mind in neutral. (Man, that's hard) If you're still game we can try again next week. Big Al. I wasn't even thinking about sex then, rare occasion that it is. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <66798@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:01:46 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Lines: 29 Subject: Death Valley Space People Gold. Some information came to me lately about an ancient city in the Death Valley area. It seems that a man was checking out an old mine when the bottom of the shaft gave way and he wound up in a tunnel that turned out to be a natural tunnel that went for more than 20 miles. I just got back from the National Geological Survey in Menlo Park, Calif. and purchased a map called Death Valley National Monument and Vicinity, California; Nevada N3530-W11615/110X90 1972, revised 1977 and the information given me does make sense. The mine that he was in was near Wingate Pass and the tunnel extends north in the Panamint Mountains. These are the prospectors words; The tunnel was like a big cave. It leads all through a great underground city; through the treasure vaults, the royal palace and the council chambers, and it connects to a series of beautiful galleries with stone arches in the east slope of the Panamint Mountains. Those arches are like great big windows in the side of the mountain and they look down on Death Vallley. They're high above the valley now, but we believe that those entrances in the mountain side were used by the ancient people that built the city. They used to land their boats there. Many years ago Death Valley was full of water up to the 4,500 feet level of the mountains and the people living there would bring their boats to the arches and walk inside the mountain. We found a very large room that had about one hundred dead armed men standing around the wall. Their spears and shields were made of gold. There was also a large table that had many noble looking people around it. At the end of this table their was a statue that was made of solid gold. It's height was established as being 89 feet and 6 inches. We used a textant to determine it's height. End Part 1. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!jkc3 Organization: Penn State University Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:58:13 EDT From: Joe Carlson Message-ID: <92272.205813JKC3@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS! References: <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Lines: 1 Dial 1-900-IAMGULLIBLE !! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495 From: cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Christopher James Rogers) Subject: New Planetoid Message-ID: <1992Sep29.011808.10953@tamsun.tamu.edu> Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station Distribution: na Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:18:08 GMT Lines: 9 Hey could anybody give me any info about that new planetoid that was supposedly discovered recently? I asked in sci.astro, but they politely told me to read Time. I would, but I don't have access to it and I don't have the time to find it in our library. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx. Later! C J Rogers Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9769 sci.skeptic:31636 alt.conspiracy:18563 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Message-ID: Date: 29 Sep 92 01:34:10 GMT References: , <1a5178INNf10@gap.caltech.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 23 >>jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: >>there is a space effort by the US that is not publicised, >carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes: >Evidence, please? ... well, I haven't followed this discussion, but of course there is a classified space effort, with launches from Vandenburg, and the occasional shuttle mission (for the shuttle missions, the fact that they occur is not classified, but what they are is.) >>there are technologies being used that could be far in advance of what we >>consider to be possible at this time, >Evidence? Or just a description of what these technologies are? ...up until quite recently, these included stealth technology, and for instance still includes imaging hardware. See Burrow's "Deep Black" for a good discussion on this subject. I'm not taking sides on the actual discussion, but I think you're answering too broadly... Charles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!nstn.ns.ca!dragon.acadiau.ca!ace.acadiau.ca!003316g From: 003316g@ace.acadiau.ca (STEPHEN EDWARD ELLIOTT GREGORY) Subject: Re: aliens are from hell Message-ID: <003316g.7.717724042@ace.acadiau.ca> Lines: 13 Sender: news@dragon.acadiau.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: liblab-36 Organization: Acadia University References: <19udsrINNfga@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> <1992Sep28.135918.26977@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:47:22 GMT >... >I am a good clean-cut Australian catholic boy.... > >I have read articles (all religious) which say that the UFO phenomenom's >seen around the world are actually demons (from hell...you know, the hot >place) who are sent here by Satan to temp people towards the sciences, >... > >Damien Sawyer Tempt people towards the sciences !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The scientific community often times seems more inclined to disbalieve in Aliens buzzing earth then to use it as ammo for scientific theories. Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:5846 alt.conspiracy:18566 alt.alien.visitors:9771 alt.mindcontrol:278 alt.flame:44273 soc.women:36810 Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.mindcontrol,alt.flame,soc.women Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!shearson.com!newshost!rens From: rens@lorax.shearson.com (Rens Troost) Subject: Mindless Flame (Was: Re: Matrix III Review) In-Reply-To: acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu's message of Sun, 27 Sep 1992 02:10:17 GMT Message-ID: Sender: news@shearson.com (News) Reply-To: rens@shearson.com (Rens Troost) Organization: Lehman Brothers References: <1992Sep15.193852.21152@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Sep16.024109.15620@ecst.csuchico.edu> <1992Sep27.021017.12897@news.uiowa.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:59:34 GMT Lines: 40 In article <1992Sep27.021017.12897@news.uiowa.edu> acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) writes: You don't need to apologize to people for upper cases. No one can shout in writing. Now, that people sometimes create their own realities... and hear you shouting... that you have to accept! :-) The oh-so-touchy and oh-so-polite and oh-so-etc. people on the internet have created things like _word-to-be-emphasized_ in order to prevent their oh-so-sensitive eyes being stressed by contiguous upper cases. But: there is no such thing as underscoring a blank in English, it only comes from computer languages, so nobody should try to enforce it, in my opinion. And: I would ask _those_ oh-so-culture-loving guys on the net, how the heck have English-language writers managed to create very ex- pressive works without facilities like empty underscores, "smilies" (like the one I've used at the end of the above paragraph...) to make sure the readers know where they should smile and where they shouldn't...? Gee. You have used a simile. You seem to have trouble with the concept of paragraph, though - I give you a B- and send you back to 4th grade english. Please follow up to the newly created group alt.puling.infant.eat.hot.lead PS- I have not used any smileys, similes, or underlines in this message - now you tell me whether I was being sarcastic or not. -Rens -- __ ___ , __ /__) /__ /| / ( | J. Laurens Troost Lehman Brothers Technical Services / \ (___ / |/ __) | *Opinions expressed herein are mine. Mine, I tell you!* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- INET: rens@shearson.com VOICE: (212) 464-3705 FAX: (212) 464-2040 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Date: 29 Sep 1992 02:58:43 GMT Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 38 Message-ID: <1a8gp3INN82t@gap.caltech.edu> References: , <1a5178INNf10@gap.caltech.edu>, Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu In article , mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes: > >>>jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: >>>there is a space effort by the US that is not publicised, >>carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes: >>Evidence, please? > >... well, I haven't followed this discussion, but of course there is a >classified space effort, with launches from Vandenburg, and the >occasional shuttle mission (for the shuttle missions, the fact that >they occur is not classified, but what they are is.) While we might not know what's in the payloads, there's really no way to hide a launch. Not even from Vandenburg. Then there's the fact that there are tracking stations scattered all over the globe, not all of them belonging to the United States. >>>there are technologies being used that could be far in advance of what we >>>consider to be possible at this time, >>Evidence? Or just a description of what these technologies are? > >...up until quite recently, these included stealth technology, and for >instance still includes imaging hardware. See Burrow's "Deep Black" >for a good discussion on this subject. > > I'm not taking sides on the actual discussion, but I think you're >answering too broadly... Answering broadly? What answers? I asked questions (not that I expected answers from the supporter of this particular conspiracy theory). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) Subject: Re: nuts Message-ID: Sender: news@phage.cshl.org Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs References: <1992Sep27.181500.1@acad3.alaska.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 04:00:56 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1992Sep27.181500.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsgah@acad3.alaska.edu writes: >I saw an alien once when I was on a midnight stroll down to Farmers loop road >from my house. There was a bright light in the sky and before I knew it there >I was on an operating table having my nuts cut off, I was really scared but >when the operation was over I felt very good about myself. > > was this the night of the Rocky Mountain Oysters special at the Farmers Loop Restaurant? -- -- Pat Monardo -- pjm@cshl.org Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!nmsu.edu!usenet From: rscott@spock.NMSU.Edu (Joseph Good) Subject: Dreams of encounters... Message-ID: <1992Sep29.033437.9086@nmsu.edu> Sender: usenet@nmsu.edu Organization: New Mexico State University Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:34:37 GMT Lines: 34 Okay, as a disclaimer - I am not obcessed with this alien discussion, but do find it very interesting at times. I have a question about the signifigance of dreams about encounters with the greys. The dreams were completely weird. I've always enjoyed having weird dreams and nightmares because of how weird they are, and I'm always aware they they are dreams.. until a few weeks ago. The aliens appeared out of a swirling vortex that appeared next to my bed, then they communicated to me through thoughts... and didn't say much. Apparently they were testing how their equipment affected me. The test only lasted a few minutes, but scared the #&$( out of me. I couldn't move.. wake up.. speak.. yell.. or anything. Personally, I am contributing this to an actuall nightmare, not an encounter, but my question is: Are dreams any sign of actual abductions?? Just curious... Joseph -- Joseph Good +-------------------+ - More than just a band.... | Green Dot Brigade | - It's a whole damn army of dots... +-------------------+ - And we've declared war on the 7-Up dots... rscott@nmsu.edu (NeXT mail welcome!!) (main account) atlantis@acca.nmsu.edu (Just plain ol' Unix) (seldom used) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!ringer!lonestar.utsa.edu!sbooth From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) Subject: Re: Mars probe? Message-ID: <1992Sep29.035835.28243@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Keywords: Mars Sender: news@ringer.cs.utsa.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: lonestar.utsa.edu Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio References: <0_!pvxd.rkrouse@netcom.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:58:35 GMT Lines: 9 There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program "Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in 1989 or 90. The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons, but their was also a second large obejct in the photo.... Simon Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jcatesii From: jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu (James Cates III) Subject: Re: Query and Introduction Message-ID: <1992Sep29.053819.28861@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Sep26.023920.28663@tamsun.tamu.edu> Distribution: na Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 05:38:19 GMT Lines: 10 This sounds an awful lot like ball lightning. Ball lightning is a known atmospheric phenomena...the 'balls' are not usually as large as you describe, however. You should have no trouble finding many references to ball lightning. You might ask at a local College, University, or even a local meteorologist. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!ed.ac.uk!Earth From: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Another reminder - vote! Message-ID: <45077@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Date: 29 Sep 92 08:06:38 GMT References: <45035@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> Sender: nnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk Reply-To: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 12 Dear all: I received a lot of votes overnight, but if anybody still has to vote, please remember that time is running short... 16 hours left as I am writing, probably 10 or less when you read it. Remember: to vote reply by email to this article and add the line: Vote: (whoever you want to vote) somewhere in the text. Do not worry too much if you sent already your vote, and you didn't follow these instruction: this only means I'll have to add the vote by hand - do not resend it. If you follow these instructions, however, I'll have to spend less time on it. Thanks. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Do Not Move Keywords: Stay Where You Are, You Will Not Be Harmed Message-ID: <80698@ut-emx.uucp> Date: 29 Sep 92 09:04:42 GMT References: <92092312349.AA01234@pleadies.com> Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX Lines: 38 In article <92092312349.AA01234@pleadies.com> kstaa@pleadies.com writes: > >This is the voice of Universal Control. I am Kstaa', leader of >the Pleadean Imperial Forces. We are here to integrate your >society into ours. Your meddling in other people's affairs will >no longer be tolerated. Our Star Destroyers are currently orbiting >Gth'ik'woof, the planet you call "Venus". We have decided to I know something *you* don't know. ;> >to warn your people of our coming. It is no secret that we are very >similar to these "Borgs". This show has angered us, and we will not >tolerate your society any longer. Therefore, your society will be >assimilated now, instead of later. Commo Officer, Play the Robotech Soundtrack. Song: "We Will Win" on infinite loop. Now surrender or I'll launch the Yamato--er, Argo at you. >Now is the time for total assimilation. NOT!! > >Sincerely, > >Kstaa' > >Pleadean Imperial Forces Grand Admiral Jorgen Tacitus Terran Navy Fortress Abowaku LotsofotherripoffsfromSF Department I miss the good old days when it was just Desslok..... :> -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Chester |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein Politically Incorrect |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us Future Lunar Colonist | are going to the stars." Anonymous -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11919 alt.alien.visitors:9779 sci.skeptic:31663 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66827@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 06:28:43 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66693@cup.portal.com> <66752@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Question Askers: Good questions. I'm late and have to go to work. I will hope to answer you later. Big Al I'll try it again with you. This time I'm going to blast you out of bed with some elementals. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!matthews_k Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Kill File (Help!) Message-ID: <1992Sep29.083909.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:39:09 GMT Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Lines: 10 Help! How do I initiate a kill file? I'm on a VAX system, and I can't seem to get my kill file to work... and believe me, there are a lot of files I don't want to browse through on this group! Anyone out there have a clue? Thanks, in advance Kellie (internet::matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!s.psych.uiuc.edu!nsabados From: nsabados@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Nick Sabadosh) Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters... References: <1992Sep29.033437.9086@nmsu.edu> Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:20:29 GMT Lines: 28 Since you started the thread, I'll join in. I also had an odd dream, about a week ago. In it, I was sitting a table with two gentlemen I didn't know. They were discussing government UFO coverups, and that they thought it was all quite silly and not true, that there were no actual UFO's, etc, etc At that point, I chimed in, referring to something I'd read here I think and using it as support for the validity of the UFO coverup idea. (This in itself is a bit odd, since I'm quite skeptical of that myself....) Right at that point, I awoke suddenly and could feel my upper leg tingling, as if it had 'fallen asleep'. I was spooked though, because my immediate thought, weird as it is, was that it was caused by aliens...trying to silence me, or keep me from thinking thoughts like that. This is not something I go around claiming, mind you. Anyway, I was wide awake at this point, but experienced that kind of paralysis you get when you wake right from REM sleep. I couldn't move, but my eyes were open. Needless to say, this added to my uneasiness with the situation. I tried to call to my wife, simply to ask her to roll me over so my leg would stop tingling...but all that came out was a muffled groan. I tried a few more times, and eventually she heard me and shook me. She said she thought I was talking in my sleep, and didn't know if it was good or bad and whether she should wake me up. The paralysis left me then, and my leg felt better. SOrry this was a book, but it was such an odd experience, I thought I'd share it... Nick Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <1992Sep29.130021.18697@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 24 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <11204@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> Distribution: usa Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:00:21 GMT In article <11204@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu>, bill@prijat.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: |> |>It's not Fall of 1992 yet!! ;-) |> |>bill Wanna bet? It's been fall now for 6 days. Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Vote for Rick Gordon, Spokesman for Earth Message-ID: <1992Sep29.141252.8420@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:11:10 GMT Lines: 5 In article , rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes... I'll cast my vote for Rick Gordon Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!fofp From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars probe? Keywords: Mars Message-ID: <26375@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: 29 Sep 92 16:44:20 GMT References: <0_!pvxd.rkrouse@netcom.com> <1992Sep29.035835.28243@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Organization: Edinburgh University Lines: 14 sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes: =>There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program =>"Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously =>lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in =>1989 or 90. The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons, =>but their was also a second large obejct in the photo.... Mars? =>Simon FoFP Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Message-ID: Date: 29 Sep 92 16:44:37 GMT References: , <1a5178INNf10@gap.caltech.edu>, <1a8gp3INN82t@gap.caltech.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 23 carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes: While we might not know what's in the payloads, there's really no way to hide a launch. Not even from Vandenburg. ... knowing that something is going up doesn't tell you what it is. If you see a Titan-3 launch something, does that tell you *anything* about what's inside? The reason for classified payloads is precisely so we won't know. If we don't know, we're allowed to guess (I looked it up.) Then there's the fact that there are tracking stations scattered all over the globe, not all of them belonging to the United States. ... yup, and seeing something on radar doesn't tell you anything about what is is. Answering broadly? What answers? Come now. You replied. We all saw it. Don't be obtuse. Charles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!fofp From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and the Bible. Message-ID: <26385@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: 29 Sep 92 16:49:32 GMT References: Organization: Edinburgh University Lines: 19 titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: >Interesting that people keep going back to the Bible on this subject. In >the end times, there will be signs in the sky! I believe UFOs are the >signs. No, Coca Cola neon signs are what was being referred to. >Everybody keeps saying that these are the end times, and I am >inclined to believe it (I'm a Christian too). UFOs could be increased >spirtual activity as the angels (good and bad) get ready for the final >battle. Remember, there is a war going on in the spirtual realm! > We should ship 'em some arms. Where there's a war, there's a profit. >[TK] - Titanium Knight FoFP Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: UFOs and the Bible. Message-ID: <3s+pknm.rickg@netcom.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 17:36:28 GMT Organization: Netcom - Forging Alliances in the New Age References: <26385@castle.ed.ac.uk> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 19 In article <26385@castle.ed.ac.uk> M Holmes writes: >titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: > >>Everybody keeps saying that these are the end times, and I am >>inclined to believe it (I'm a Christian too). UFOs could be increased >>spirtual activity as the angels (good and bad) get ready for the final >>battle. Remember, there is a war going on in the spirtual realm! >> > >We should ship 'em some arms. Where there's a war, there's a profit. But, as I'm sure you'll agree, it would be a profit without honor. >FoFP -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9788 alt.astrology:2463 alt.consciousness:533 alt.conspiracy:18570 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2064 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.astrology,alt.consciousness,alt.conspiracy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!rtech!news!wrs.com!davidj From: davidj@wrs.com (David Jones) Subject: Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message Message-ID: Sender: news@wrs.com (News Manager) Nntp-Posting-Host: erra Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:57:06 GMT Lines: 124 ############################################################################ # The following is sent as a public service announcement and is for # # informational purposes only. I am not receiving any renumeration for # # helping to inform the public in this regards. I will be happy to # # answer any questions about the below that you may have. # # # # Thank you. David W. Jones davidj@wrs.com OR uunet!wrs!davidj # ############################################################################ The Society for the Advancement of Civilization Presents: Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message Saturday, October 10, 1992 10:00am to 9:30pm Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley At Gayley Road across from the Greek Theater A public forum on the legitimate scientific inquiry into one of the most controversial issues facing our planet today. Why does extraterrestrial con- tact have value for the people of Earth? There are increasing numbers of aware, articulate people from a variety of professional and cultural back- grounds who have been contacted by extraterrestrials. Come, hear and meet an impressive group of research experts and persons who have had close encounters. R. Leo Sprinkle, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of Psychology, University of Wyom- ing, Laramie, where he was director of counseling services, and founder of the Institute for UFO Contactee Studies, is an early investigator of hundreds of Close Encounter cases beginning in 1955. He served with APRO as a consultant for psychology and is the principle investigator of the John Salter case. He is the organizer of the Annual Rocky Mountain UFO Conference. James A. Harder, Ph. D., Professor Emeritus of Engineering, U.C. Berkeley, pioneered the use of hypnosis in close-encounter cases since 1962, and the study of E.T./human interactions and their influences on this planet. He will describe emerging information about the characteristics of advanced civiliza- tions and how this information could help inspire us to a more hopeful view of Earth. John Salter, Ph. D., Professor of Indian Studies Univ. of North Dakota, will lead several people with close encounter experiences in a round table discus- sion. Dr. Salter will also tell of his own continuing encounters. He was featured in the May 1991, CBS prime time special "Visitors from the Unknown" He teaches a very popular university course which accepts the reality of extraterrestrial contact. Richard F. Haines, Ph.D., Psychologist and research scientist. His interest in discovering the core nature of UFO phenomenon spans 20 years with special interest in sightings by pilots, photo analysis, and CE4. He recently founded and co-directs the Joint American- Soviet Aerial Anomaly Federation. Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D., A psychologist in private practice. He has assisted in the understanding and the integration of ET experiences into everyday life. He will speak about the "mind field" of new information developing for those with extraterrestrial close encounters and for the Society of Planet Earth. Cathy W., A California person with some very interesting close encounters, and whose events were thoroughly recorded by a well- known researcher/investigator. Her experiences were shown in a documentary on a prime-time NBC program. A special two hour question and answer period in the evening will be hosted by the participants in the above program. A special multi-media presentation of ET close encounter experiences will also be presented. Doors open at 9:15 am. Events begin at 10:00 am and end at 9:30 pm. Cost is $30.00. Free educational video with reservations received by October 6th, 1992. Seating is limited, so please reserve your seats in advance. Priority is given to those who have paid advance reservations & who have arrived by 9:45am. Tickets will be sold at the door. Please no video/tape recording. Videos and tapes will be made available to attendees at the forum. ============================================================================= Extraterrestrial Contact: The Meaning and the Message Saturday, October 10, 1992, 10:00 am to 9:30 pm Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley An open forum presented by the Society for the Advancement of Civilization, a not for profit corporation formed to study extraterrestrial civilizations as they may pertain to the future of Earth and to create an environment for all those interested in extraterrestrial contact to share with others their experiences and viewpoints in an open and non-threatening atmosphere. Directions: From hiway 80, take the University Avenue turnoff in Berkeley, east, toward the hills. Turn left on Oxford, go two blocks and turn right on Hearst Avenue. The parking garage is 6 blocks up Hearst. Turn right on Gayley Road (it will be La Loma to your left) and go about two blocks, across from the Greek Theater, on your right, a round short building. We have reserved 100 spaces at the parking garage (marked H above) located at the corner of La Loma Avenue and Hearst Avenue, on a first-come first-serve basis. Parking in this garage will be $3.00 for the full day. Show the atten- dant this flyer, or tell them that you will be attending the Extraterrestrial Contact symposium. We encourage everyone to bring a bag lunch and eat with one another on campus in one of the many tree lined grassy park areas. We will provide a map of local restaurants for your convenience for those who wish to eat out. For more information, call (510) 526-8989 or (415) 453-2735 after October 1st. Sponsored by The Society for the Advancement of Civilization & The First Sun- day Study Group Please reserve ________ seats at $30.00 each (tickets and your free educational video to be picked up at the door) for: Name ___________________________ Street _________________________________________ City ___________________________ Zip __________ Phone ___________________________ Make checks payable to: Berkeley Symposium Checks must be received by October 6th, 1992 Send to: Berkeley Symposium P.O. Box 9073 Berkeley, CA 94709-9073 ------------------------------------- EOF -------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495 From: cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Christopher James Rogers) Subject: Re: Mars probe? Message-ID: <1992Sep29.180739.11414@tamsun.tamu.edu> Keywords: Mars Organization: PFF References: <0_!pvxd.rkrouse@netcom.com> <1992Sep29.035835.28243@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> <26375@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:07:39 GMT Lines: 23 In article <26375@castle.ed.ac.uk> fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes: >sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes: > > >=>There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program >=>"Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously >=>lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in >=>1989 or 90. The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons, >=>but their was also a second large obejct in the photo.... > >Mars? > >=>Simon > >FoFP Sorry, but no. It was not Mars. The object was long and cylindrical. As of yet, it is not explained. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: "Alternative 3": April Fool! (was: Bookstores and excellent books Message-ID: <2t+p-dq.jeffp@netcom.com> Date: 29 Sep 92 18:13:04 GMT References: <1a8gp3INN82t@gap.caltech.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 28 In article mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes: > > carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes: > While we might not know what's in the payloads, there's really > no way to hide a launch. Not even from Vandenburg. > >... knowing that something is going up doesn't tell you what >it is. If you see a Titan-3 launch something, does that tell >you *anything* about what's inside? The reason for classified >payloads is precisely so we won't know. If we don't know, we're >allowed to guess (I looked it up.) I would be the first to second what Charles said here, but remember, the crux of what most of the secret space program conspiracies are built on is ANTI-GRAVITY TECHNOLOGY, and these craft HAVE BEEN SITED in the US and in Australia at Pine Gap, coming out of underground bases. If you can launch without a fireball, you can do just about anything covertly that you wish to, assuming it's within your capability to leave the atmouspher of the earth... Remember, we were seeing progress reports in the papers and press through the late 1950's, then nothing concerning antigravity research. It is entirely possible that these devices are being used today for projects we know nothing about. This would also indicate that we have a secret science program that they are not teaching in the universities... Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!sparccvo!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Replies Message-ID: <1992Sep29.173608.8757@ntb.ch> Keywords: various Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <19udsrINNfga@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:36:08 GMT Lines: 67 Hello all, This group is so interesting, and there are so many people I'd like to write to, but I just haven't got the time. I've decided instead to put a group reply on the net. I've never seen this kind of thing before on the net, so am a little apprehensive... DAMIEN SAWYER I'm just beginning to wonder if I haven't been taken for a ride. If so, hats off to you, Damien. Why would you otherwise call yourself Damien Sawyer *and* of Samien Dawyer? Well, it worked, and I bought it. Good to get us going again. SPRING HEEL JACK replies. Thank you all. I've had Email replies too. All kinds of information. Some of the people mentioned Mothman too. There may be a parallel. Some people seemed to think he was only fiction, but the main opinion was that police reports from London of 1837/38 confirm that there was a character who was chased by police, and at one time he jumped over mounted soldiers in order to escape. Metallic type of clothes under his long cloak, metal lamp strapped to his chest, from which he could direct a kind of gas which made people unconscious. Very unusual features. JOHN WINSTON I heard exactly the same story of Heaven from a Swiss lady, who was in a coma for some weeks. I personally don't think it's Heaven, maybe a higher plane.. DALE REDD I'd be extremely surprised if this really were your first time on earth. Have you ever looked at books dealing with regression? DEAN MADSEN Thanks for the Blue Book Unknowns list. COLLEEN ANDERSON I find it best to ignore the immature nonsense. Showing your annoyance on the net may be just what they want, although it's understandable! "MARY" I had a good laugh at your reply to Andre's posting RA Free Radical I actually understood what John meant with his "lighter consistency...lighter frequency". (It's also one of the possible explanations for ghosts.) And if it *is* New Age jargon, then at least other people understand it too, and it's not "just to sound neat". ALIN-ANDREI CARSTEANU It's often a good idea to vent your anger on Email in case someone is even better at sarcasm than you. (See reply to Colleen, above) (RENS TROOST) ("English" is spelt with a capital letter) CLAUDIO CAVELLI and RICK GORDON Thanks for all the work JOHN CORMAC DAVIS THANKS for brightening up my Monday. What will the rest of the week bring? Cheers, Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9792 alt.activism:33184 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!sxz104 Organization: Penn State University Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:42:17 EDT From: Message-ID: <92273.144217SXZ104@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.activism Subject: Role-playing Games Lines: 8 I am putting together a Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Game. If you are interested or want more information, write to me and I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Thank You, Sharky Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 19:12:53 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Sep28.121546.22017@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> Lines: 51 In article <1992Sep28.121546.22017@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> plw@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (White) writes: >Now that Vallee's book Revelations has come out in paperback, I >picked it up. Thank God. > >Reading the book has provided a psychological attenuator for >much of the Cooper/Lear/UMMO/Pleidian/fill in your own fringe group >noise that has threatened to drown any interest I may have had in >the UFO phenomenon. Too broad-minded and open for you, emm? > >Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take >one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their >participants. Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people >that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not >have. Then he asks the hard questions. > >For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out >the garbage?" "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites >picked any traces of this base?" etc. I have not read the book, but seems like we KNOW there is a base there, so these arguments seem fairly beyond reason... It's really just a matter of WHAT are they doing there, and what kinds of vehicles are test flown there? >Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason >for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of >Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges. However, the >reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation >campaign cannot be firmly grasped. Of course there is a lot of disinformation regarding these issues. It is fairly common knoledge that the ONI and CIA are constanly feuding and that Cooper has Navy connections and Lear has CIA connections, but it is also that wisps of the truth slip out along with the disinformation... JV didn't come up with this on his own, it's well known. > >So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your >kill file is getting larger and larger. I have said this before to several people and will repeat it here: JV is not main-stream. He is a loaner, predisposed to many ideas that the community of UFO researchers would not always agree with, so keep that in mind when you read his books. He is highly opinionated, and could quite possibly be very misguided in his conclusions... Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Dr. James Harder in Berkely Next Month Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 19:22:24 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 28 I just remembered that there is going to be a symposium on ET Contact in Berkely, CA on Oct. 10th. I forget all the details, and can't find the original post that was made here several weeks ago. If some one has it, please repost. My friend just called and reminded me to send in the $30 before the 6th, so that I get a free educational video out of the deal. I think the door price is higher too, but not sure. I didn't get a phone # from her, but the address to send money is : Berkely Symposium ExtraTerrestrial Contact P.O Box 9073 Berkely, CA 94709-9073 I remember the original flyer said to bring a sack lunch so that we could all socialize and connect at lunch time on the grounds. I don't remember the exact location for the conference either, but it starts at 10am and there is limited parking, so get there early for free parking. Hope someone can post more details. Dr. Harder is one of the most interesting researchers I have ever had the opportunity to listen to, and I am looking forward to hearing what he has to say about his latest findings. Jeff- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!ed.ac.uk!Earth From: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: It's almost time to stop. Message-ID: <26389@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: 29 Sep 92 19:50:10 GMT Sender: nntpusr@castle.ed.ac.uk Reply-To: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Lines: 5 Dear all: the voting period ends at 00:00 GMT, Wednesday 30 September. That is, in a few hour's time. Votes sent before midnight (GMT) will be counted when they arrive, but votes sent after midnight will be discarded. Results will be announced in a few days' time to make sure that any delayed votes will be received. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!strath-cs!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Kill File (Help!) Message-ID: <1992Sep29.185529.454@dct.ac.uk> Date: 29 Sep 92 17:55:29 GMT References: <1992Sep29.083909.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology Lines: 17 In article <1992Sep29.083909.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: > Help! How do I initiate a kill file? I'm on a VAX system, and I can't > seem to get my kill file to work... and believe me, there are a lot of > files I don't want to browse through on this group! Anyone out there > have a clue? > > Thanks, in advance There are a few newsreaders for VMS so we really need to know which one. Probably the most common is ANU news; in which case HELP KILL will tell you all. -- Alan Greig Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK Tel: (0382) 308810 Xref: icaen talk.bizarre:76115 alt.alien.visitors:9797 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!gatech!pitt.edu!dsinc!cs.widener.edu!batman!music From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller) Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: sci-fi channel Message-ID: Date: 29 Sep 92 19:56:55 GMT References: Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: batman In pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) writes: >for some unknown reason the sci-fi channel is on and >here's something i learned: >if you concentrate on the little planet in the lower >right hand side you enter another dimension. It's called "The Realm of Reruns"... -- *-------------------------------------------------------------------------* # export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u') # # Work: music@moravian.edu <#!AMIGA!#> Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar # *-------------------------------------------------------------------------* Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!ukma!cs.widener.edu!batman!music From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller) Subject: Re: Interdimensional communication... Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: batman References: <1992Sep28.185151.20705@engage.pko.dec.com> <90774@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 16:00:47 EDT Lines: 30 In <90774@netnews.upenn.edu> jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes: >In article <1992Sep28.185151.20705@engage.pko.dec.com>, stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: >> >> In article <717331015.0@krypta.fidonet.org>, Andre.Eichner@f10.n2403.z2.fidonet.org (Andre Eichner) writes... >> >Hello All! >> > >> >Is anybody interested oder working on interdimensional communication with >> >aliens oder any other? >> > >> >cheers >> > Andre >> If this means what I think it means, Andre.... I'm interested. >> >> mary >I smell a conspiracy. >interdimensional communication ? a new AT&T plan ???? >J "Friends and Family and Aliens" M. Or ..."Friends and Past & Future Family". -- *-------------------------------------------------------------------------* # export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u') # # Work: music@moravian.edu <#!AMIGA!#> Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar # *-------------------------------------------------------------------------* Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!fmsrl7!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: October 28th. Message-ID: <29SEP199217121120@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 00:12:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center Keywords: The end. News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 15 Hello all, Some time ago one of the a.a.v people posted an explanation for the "Last Trumpet Day" said to occur on the 28th., of October. I didn't manage to obtain a printout of the explanation but if the person could repost it I would appreciate it greatly. There are some fundamentalists I am in an ongoing argument with and I really need the facts about the subject. With appreciation in advance, Jim ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:5848 alt.conspiracy:18578 alt.alien.visitors:9800 alt.mindcontrol:279 alt.flame:44293 soc.women:36849 Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.mindcontrol,alt.flame,soc.women Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!shearson.com!newshost!rens From: rens@lorax.shearson.com (Rens Troost) Subject: Re: Mindless Flame (Was: Re: Matrix III Review) In-Reply-To: acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu's message of 29 Sep 92 18:31:02 GMT Message-ID: Sender: news@shearson.com (News) Reply-To: rens@shearson.com (Rens Troost) Organization: Lehman Brothers References: <1992Sep16.024109.15620@ecst.csuchico.edu> <1992Sep27.021017.12897@news.uiowa.edu> <1992Sep29.183102.28340@news.uiowa.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:36:30 GMT Lines: 24 In article <1992Sep29.183102.28340@news.uiowa.edu> acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) writes: Sorry, I just happen to very much dislike people who set rules for others and then even manage to somehow make them apologize for not obeying those rules. I guess, yes, it's the only thing that makes me feel like eating hot lead. I think it is you that would impose rules on us, the smiley-users. Or did you not intend to demean the users of good netiquette? Also, you failed the test in my last posting -- because I did not include smileys, you failed to realize that what I was writing was sarcasm. No matter - just learn what it's for. A more comprehensive flame has been forwarded to you via mail. -Rens -- __ ___ , __ /__) /__ /| / ( | J. Laurens Troost Lehman Brothers Technical Services / \ (___ / |/ __) | *Opinions expressed herein are mine. Mine, I tell you!* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- INET: rens@shearson.com VOICE: (212) 464-3705 FAX: (212) 464-2040 Xref: icaen alt.paranormal:5849 alt.conspiracy:18579 alt.alien.visitors:9801 alt.mindcontrol:280 alt.flame:44294 soc.women:36851 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ogicse!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!network.ucsd.edu!ivem!spl From: spl@ivem.uucp (Steve Lamont) Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,alt.mindcontrol,alt.flame,soc.women Subject: Re: Mindless Flame (Was: Re: Matrix III Review) Message-ID: <1aam4gINNsbj@network.ucsd.edu> Date: 29 Sep 92 22:42:24 GMT Article-I.D.: network.1aam4gINNsbj References: <1992Sep27.021017.12897@news.uiowa.edu> <1992Sep29.183102.28340@news.uiowa.edu> Followup-To: alt.dev.null Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu In article <1992Sep29.183102.28340@news.uiowa.edu> acarstea@icaen.uiowa.edu (Alin-Andrei Carsteanu) writes: >P.S. I still don't know what you mean by simile. A similitude? Or what!? A simile is like a metaphor. spl -- Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608 "If you don't think people are this crazy, you need to move to LA!" - Gary Stollman Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Subject: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Lines: 37 Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:34:57 GMT Lines: 37 I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much to see what people on the net think of his views. This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7, Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7. He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings, and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public. The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and technological capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the public. The national oligarchical establishments, even civilization as we now know it, could collapse into anarchy. Such extreme conclusions are not necessaril7y valid, but they probably accurately reflect the fears of the *ruling classes* of the major nations, whose leaders (particularly those in the intelligence business) have always advocated excessive governmental secrecy as being necessary to preserve *national security.** That's the quote. So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization as we know it. What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. Regards, Lou Crago Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:31733 alt.alien.visitors:9803 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Subject: Re: SPRING HEEL JACK Message-ID: <1992Sep23.152509.11609@crc.ac.uk> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK References: <1992Sep22.161905.3794@ntb.ch> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 15:25:09 GMT Lines: 11 I was researching material for a lecture about early UFOs last weekend and I am sure I saw some material relating to Spring Heel Jack. I will check to see what I have Steve -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!levels!9051467f From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (Wild Child) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and the Bible. Message-ID: <18820.2ac979f9@levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: 30 Sep 92 00:27:13 GMT References: Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 274 NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.itd.adelaide.edu.au Originator: daemon@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au In article , titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) writes: > Interesting that people keep going back to the Bible on this subject. In > the end times, there will be signs in the sky! I believe UFOs are the > signs. Everybody keeps saying that these are the end times, and I am > inclined to believe it (I'm a Christian too). UFOs could be increased > spirtual activity as the angels (good and bad) get ready for the final > battle. Remember, there is a war going on in the spirtual realm! I can't believe that these Foaming Fundies (tm) can be SO SELF CENTRED! As if anything remotely important to the scheme of things in the universe ALWAYS concerns the naughty activities of a bunch of lunatic humans! > [TK] - Titanium Knight Oh good grief.... -- John McVey, Whyalla, Uni S.Aust 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au Electronic Engineering Student & Terror Tekkie G1 (at 19!) +------------------------------------------------------+ --| Obligatory disclaimer : UniSA hates my opinions... |-- +------------------------------------------------------+ #! rnews 3096 Path: levels!ccdps From: ccdps@levels.unisa.edu.au XPosted: ccdps@levels.unisa.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer Subject: How DOS executes batch files [was: Another MsDos batch programming chal Message-ID: <18821.2ac97d45@levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: 30 Sep 92 10:11:17 +0930 References: <1992Sep3.214401.5000@uwasa.fi> <1992Sep4.032836.7299@cs.ubc.ca> <1992Sep4.213842.14734@mits.mdata.fi> <1992Sep7.211129.702@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> <18812.2ac80fc0@levels.unisa.edu.au> XNewsgroups: comp.os.msdos.programmer Followup-To: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer Date: 29 Sep 92 08:11:44 +0930 Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 59 In article <1992Sep7.211129.702@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, cctr132@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Nick FitzGerald, CSC, Uni. of Canterbury, NZ) writes: > In article <1992Sep4.213842.14734@mits.mdata.fi>, kennu@mits.mdata.fi > (Kenneth Falck) writes: >> In article <1992Sep4.032836.7299@cs.ubc.ca> yogi@cs.ubc.ca (Yossi Gil) > writes: [deleted] > The actual DOS batch processor is a tad more involved than Yossi's > outline suggests. Whilst the following may not seem much different from > what Yossi suggests, some subtle implications of batch processor > operations are more clearly apparent from it. To the best of my ability > to tell, the following is a more accurate outline: > > 1. Open file > 2. Read first line > 3. Note number of -chars- read thus far > 4. Parse line (for redirection, etc) > 5. Close file > 6. Execute command > 7. Open file > 8. Read to number of chars recorded in 4. > 9. Read to next EOL or EOF > 10. If command is null and EOF goto 12. > 11. Loop to 3. > 12. Close file > [STUFF deleted] I have done some quick checks with a crude interrupt tracer to determine what happens with REMs and labels. I have the following modifications: 1. Open file 2. Read line 3. Note number of -chars- read thus far 4. Parse line (for redirection, etc) 5. If line is a label, note position and do step 2 6. If line is a forward GOTO, keep reading until label found, then do step 2 7. If line is a backward GOTO...? (I haven't tested this yet) 8. Close file 9. Execute command 10. Open file 11. Read to number of chars recorded in 3 [I think Nick meant 3 here, not 4] 12. Read to next EOL or EOF 13. If command is null and EOF goto 15. 14. Loop to 3. 15. Close file This confirms what simple ECHO ON observation says: REMs get executed and labels don't. At UniSA we have for years been skipping rather long documentation sections in our LAN batch files with a GOTO, because the batch processor *doesn't* close and open the file to read every line regardless. This also supports the very old trick of using ": " to begin a comment rather than a REM. The space after the ":" ensures that there are no confusions between real label names and comments. -- Dan Shearer email: Dan.Shearer@UniSA.edu.au Computer Centre Phone: +61 8 302 3479 University of South Australia Fax : +61 8 302 3385 #! rnews 1068 Path: levels!9051467f From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (Wild Child) Newsgroups: alt.atheism Subject: Re: atheism Message-ID: <18822.2ac9b206@levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: 30 Sep 92 13:56:22 +0930 References: <00csRB1w165w@halcyon.com> Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 18 In article , ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark) writes: Haha very funny. > >>"God is Dead" Friedrich Nietzsche 19th century > "Nietzsche is Dead" God 20th Century ^^^ prove it, dork! Send me a copy of the recording. This is so flippin old!!! a) You're an atheist with a humour deficiency (not likely given history) b) You're a theist getting desparate for even a SMALL victory.... -- John McVey, Whyalla, Uni S.Aust 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au Electronic Engineering Student & Terror Tekkie G1 (at 19!) +------------------------------------------------------+ --| Obligatory disclaimer : UniSA hates my opinions... |-- +------------------------------------------------------+ #! rnews 997 Path: levels!9208657l From: 9208657l@levels.unisa.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.personals Subject: Wanna be my e-mail pal? Message-ID: <18823.2ac9c9bf@levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: 30 Sep 92 15:37:34 +0930 Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 16 Hi Everybody! If you're a broadminded guy/girl, unlimited age group, u can write to me cos' I'm terribly bored! I'm a freshman in Uni of SA, Adelaide. Preferably from East Coast and Mid-West USA and also, of course ... Aussies! As my priviledge in using this account is very limited, sorry if there are some people whose letters aren't replied .... I'm 20 y'o, originally came from Indonesia, cos I'm in Australia just to study. Likes music (all kinds except heavy-metal), Christianity (and am proud of being one!), books, movies, and bla ... bla ... bla (sounds boring? Try me!). O yeah nearly forgot, I'm a guy and my name's Arry. Arry Tanusondjaja 9208657l@ntx.city.unisa.edu.au (--- PLEASE DON'T post to 9208657l@levels.unisa.edu.au ----) #! rnews 1016 Path: levels!majfr From: John.Roddick@levels.unisa.edu.au Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory Subject: Re: BNCOD '93 - When is it? Message-ID: <18824.2ac9dd18@levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: 30 Sep 92 17:00:08 +0930 References: <18313.2a911491@levels.unisa.edu.au> Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 14 > Does anyone know when and where BNCOD is next year? I can't find it in > COMP.ANNOUNCE.CONFERENCES Thanks to everyone who responded asking me to let them know when I found out but I'm sorry, I received no reply with the answer. Does anyone know, even roughly ? -------------------------------------------+---------------------------- John Roddick | Phone: (08) 302 3463 School of Computer and Information Science | Int.: +61 8 302 3463 Faculty of Applied Science and Technology | Fax: (08) 302 3381 University of South Australia | Email: Roddick@UniSA.Edu.AU THE LEVELS SA 5095 | SOUTH AUSTRALIA | #! rnews 4270 Path: levels!majfr From: John.Roddick@levels.unisa.edu.au Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory,comp.ai,aus.ai Subject: Inductive Learning and Relational Databases Message-ID: <18825.2ac9e4b7@levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: 30 Sep 92 17:32:38 +0930 Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 74 INDUCTIVE LEARNING ALGORITHMS AND RELATIONAL DATA I'm currently looking at some aspects of incorporating Inductive Learning into Relational Database Systems and I'm after any references on previous work in the area. I already have a number of references but will post a (more) complete list given sufficient demand. In order to set the scene, here are some of the parameters I consider necessary to place on any inductive learning algorithm using relaional database data. i. There is no negative training data available. Machine learning algorithms use negative training examples to illustrate conditions that are not true in order to test that generated rules are not unnecessarily simplistic. Algorithms that rely on negative training data are therefore of little use. The use of the closed world assumption to infer negative examples by simply generating tuples that do not exist in the database is of limited value due to the nature of these missing tuples. With the generation of rules about data from a database the algorithm can be considered to have found a solution as long as it is consistent with the positive data. It is not possible to assume that data not held in the database cannot occur. The situation just has not yet occurred. ii. The algorithms used must run without operator interaction. In machine learning terms there is no teacher to indicate correct concept classifications. The concept of developing an oracle which learns, over time from data retrieval activity, which types of induced dependency are the most useful could replace the teacher in some cases. iii. The algorithms do not necessarily need to find all solutions. The design of my system is such as to allow a graceful degradation of performance as less inductive data is available until, at its bottom limit, the model degenerates to a normal relational database system. Although there is a 'loss of induced information problem' which leads to a reduction in the number of rules over time, the algorithms can assume that rules left over from previous runs are still valid and should not aim to regenerate all rules from scratch. iv. Allied to points ii. and iii. above is the need for the algorithm to report their inductive findings as they find them rather than waiting until the algorithm runs to completion. Often, especially with large database systems, running to completion may be impractical. v. If possible, temporal support should be accommodated but I have found no learning algorithms able to do this. In particular, knowledge of temporal relationships, ala Allen (1981, 1983, 1984) should be handled. vi. The database data, at least for my purposes, may be considered accurate. Many algorithms do not make this assumption and employ probabilistic methods of concept formation. vii. My method of storage and the nature of the relational data itself is such that disjunctive classification rules are required. viii. All information is available to the algorithm at all times but there will be more data than can be reasonably held in storage. Both incremental and non-incremental learners can thus be employed although breadth-first searching through the entire search space, as employed in some non-incremental learners, may be infeasible. Thanks in advance, John. -------------------------------------------+---------------------------- John Roddick | Phone: (08) 302 3463 School of Computer and Information Science | Int.: +61 8 302 3463 Faculty of Applied Science and Technology | Fax: (08) 302 3381 University of South Australia | Email: Roddick@UniSA.Edu.AU THE LEVELS SA 5095 | SOUTH AUSTRALIA | #! rnews 539 Path: levels!9211116j From: 9211116j@levels.unisa.edu.au Newsgroups: aus.ai Subject: Requesting Email address for Mary O'Kane Message-ID: <18826.2ac9f0f3@levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: 30 Sep 92 18:24:51 +0930 Organization: University of South Australia Lines: 6 Can anyone help with an email address for Mary O'Kane, who I understand has some experience with the Blackboard Architecture? I believe she's at ANU. All advice appreciated, Mike Sunners, 9211116J@lv.unisa.edu.au, School of Electronic Engineering, University of South Australia Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11921 alt.alien.visitors:9805 sci.skeptic:31738 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!raja Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center Date: Tuesday, 29 Sep 1992 14:22:47 PST From: Message-ID: <92273.142247RAJA@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Distribution: usa References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66617@cup.portal.com> <28SEP199209052567@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov> Lines: 45 In article <28SEP199209052567@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov>, redd@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (Dale Redd -- MP-6 Operations) says: > >In article <66617@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >>Subject: Baby Talk. > >(stuff deleted) > >> This last week I saw where Sara Inserra has started talking at 20 minutes >>old. The first thing that she said was to tell the nurse to take her to her >>mother because she wanted to give her a message from her grandmother (Nana). >>She told her that her mother, who died three years ago, wanted to assure her >>she was all right and that she would be waiting for her and her husband when >>their time comes. Sara told them the following information about heaven; It >>is a wonderful place, a lot like Earth, but with perfect weather. There >>are hills and mountains, meadows and gardens, lakes and oceans, and you can >>live wherever you want. Everyone loves one another and there is harmony >>everywhere. happiness is eternal. And God is everywhere, doing whatever it >>takes to make you happy. It is the happiest moment of your life expanded >>for ever and ever. > >(stuff deleted) > >Hey John, > >For months now you've been posting stuff about your former lives and all your >"Mentors'" series of lives, etc. Now, you are saying that people die and go >to heaven? What, do some of us get lucky the first time around and end up >in heaven after just one terrestial trip and others have to go 'round and >'round a few times with the reincarnation thing? I'm truly confused. > >Dale > >(on my first life) > Ah! the "truth" is , that you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently. You have to come back to this or another planet to get a chance to fulfil your desires . You can stay permanently when you don't have any material desires left. But f or a religious person "Heaven" is the presence of God and that has nothing to d o with nice weather etc.etc. May the God of peace visit you and abide in your heart forever. rajagopalan Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: October 28th. Message-ID: <1992Sep30.131707.15663@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Keywords: The end. Lines: 46 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <29SEP199217121120@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 13:17:07 GMT In article <29SEP199217121120@apsicc.aps.edu>, jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) writes: |>Hello all, |> Some time ago one of the a.a.v people posted an explanation for the |>"Last Trumpet Day" said to occur on the 28th., of October. I didn't |>manage to obtain a printout of the explanation but if the person could |>repost it I would appreciate it greatly. There are some fundamentalists |>I am in an ongoing argument with and I really need the facts about the |>subject. |> With appreciation in advance, |> Jim Just tell them to GET A LIFE! You can't win an argument with Fundies. They wouldn't listen to reason if Jesus Christ told them himself/herself/itself. Just let it rest until the 29th of October when everyone is still here and then you can go to the Fundies and go PPPPPHHHHHTTTTT! This same thing happened with me in 1988 when the Fundies (some not all) were convinced that the second coming would happen on Rashashana (sp sorry) because of a poorly written book: "88 Reasons why the rapture will happen in 1988). A fellow co-worker was convinced that he and his family were going to rapture out. Well I argued until blue in the face with no success. I then said to him that he should take everything he owns and all his money and give it to a charitable organization. He wouldn't do it. Some faith you have I said. Fell on deaf ears. The day after the supposed event I went to him and ask how it felt to be made a fool of. Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11922 alt.alien.visitors:9807 sci.skeptic:31740 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66888@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 06:36:02 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66693@cup.portal.com> <66752@cup.portal.com> <66827@cup.portal.com> Lines: 12 Dear People: In regards to the question of frequency and consistency it is my opinion that it can be explained by using the colors of the rainbow. Red in the lowest which is hate, lust and etc. Not in order you come to blue which is when you are in a blue downcast mood. Purple is good and high. Gold and white is the best and highest which are true love. These colors come through in the aura and the frequency of a person in the color of the aura. The higher the frequency of your aura is the higher evolved you are. In most cases the finer the consistency of a being the higher the developement of that being. It appear that some people are now picking up my spirit at other times other than when we are having the experiments. My spirit seem to do that without my concious mind being aware of it. Tonight is OOBE Wednesday. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11923 alt.alien.visitors:9808 sci.skeptic:31741 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!zazen!psl.wisc.edu!gorski From: gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) Subject: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day) Message-ID: <1992Sep30.132125.8199@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin References: <66617@cup.portal.com> <28SEP199209052567@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov> <92273.142247RAJA@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 13:21:25 GMT Lines: 14 In article <92273.142247RAJA@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes: >Ah! the "truth" is , that you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently. You >have to come back to this or another planet to get a chance to fulfil your >desires. You can stay permanently when you don't have any material desires >left. But for a religious person "Heaven" is the presence of God and that >has nothing to do with nice weather etc.etc. Man, I'll have to bite on this one. A cute story to be sure, but how do you know this? >rajagopalan --Tom G. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) Subject: Extraterrestrial Contact Symposium Message-ID: <1992Sep30.151345.8807@netcom.com> Keywords: EXtraterrestrial Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:13:45 GMT Lines: 30 I got a flyer about this UFO event. If you know of other UFO related events please post them in this group. Extraterrestrial Contact - The Meaning and The Message Saturday, Oct 10, 1992 10:00am to 9:30pm Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley Sponsored bt The Society for the Advancement of Civilization & The First Sunday Study Group Tickets are 30$ For more information: Berkeley Symposium P.O. Box 9073 Berkeley, CA 94709-9073 -- ========================================================================== Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "VOTE! - use it or lose it" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnews!mvbth From: mvbth@cbnews.cb.att.com (bernard.t.hebert) Subject: ANTI-GRAV_PATENT_??? Organization: AT&T Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:05:11 GMT Message-ID: <1992Sep30.170511.25574@cbnews.cb.att.com> Followup-To: mvbth@cbnews.cb.att.com Keywords: What's up, Doc? Lines: 32 Hello everone ! While perusing the NET today I came across an article in Sci.space.shuttle regarding the following matter : "Method and Apparatus for Generating a Secondary Gravitational Force Field" U. S Patent # 3,626,605 awarded to Henry M. Wallace December 14, 1971. My questions are as follows : 1. How does one find out if there IS such a patent without going through a Patent Attorney ? 2. As a U. S. Citizen, am I entitled to see such a document ? 3. Will it cost me very much money to see such a document should I be able to do so ? Not that I can believe that twenty years ago some one came up with an actual working model, but I would like to see the document if it exists. Thanks, Bernie ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ B. T. Hebert || mvbth@mvgpk.att.com || DISCLAIMER: I REFUSE TO SPEAK AT&T Network Systems || ||FOR ANYBODY BUT MYSELF.AT TIMES N. Andover, MA 01940 || mvgpk!mvbth || I WON'T EVEN DO THAT. FIGURES... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9811 alt.conspiracy:18590 alt.politics.perot:2988 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!convex!sunova!andorra!kevlar From: kevlar@andorra.ssc.gov (Kevlar) Subject: **GREY OCTOBER** Message-ID: <1992Sep30.171601.13346@sunova.ssc.gov> Sender: usenet@sunova.ssc.gov (News Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov Reply-To: kevlar@andorra.ssc.gov (Kevlar) Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:16:01 GMT Lines: 29 HERE IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL FEAR.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OCTOBER SURPISE???? You Fools! Perot is a Grey. How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech. Why did he suddenly decide to run? Why is he so secretive? Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes President? Why is he so scared of the press? Why does he want to hook up the country electronically? Who is he really reporting to? Is he really running for office? of course he is!! I think it is clear what his plans were. He is going to gain the Presidency. Clear the way for the Grey invasion. And kick back with a Miller in a human free world. Scared Yet? You should be! (reposted from a previous article) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!stafford.winona.msus.edu!user Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Role-playing Games Message-ID: From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford) Date: 30 Sep 92 12:29:15 -0600 Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,alt.activism References: <92273.144217SXZ104@psuvm.psu.edu> Distribution: world Organization: MSUS Nntp-Posting-Host: stafford.winona.msus.edu Lines: 10 In article <92273.144217SXZ104@psuvm.psu.edu>, wrote: > > I am putting together a Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Game. > If you are interested or want more information, write to me and I'll get back > to you as soon as possible. > > naaaaaaa. why bother when there is Rune Quest? And what has this to do with alien visitors? The author of Rune Quest is an alien. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!convex!news.oc.com!mercury.unt.edu!PC-59249.slab.unt.edu!kauffman From: kauffman@slab.unt.edu (DON KAUFFMAN) Subject: Re: ANTI-GRAV_PATENT_??? Message-ID: Keywords: What's up, Doc? Lines: 37 Sender: usenet@mercury.unt.edu (UNT USENet Adminstrator) Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT References: <1992Sep30.170511.25574@cbnews.cb.att.com> Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:33:09 GMT In article <1992Sep30.170511.25574@cbnews.cb.att.com> mvbth@cbnews.cb.att.com (bernard.t.hebert) writes: > > While perusing the NET today I came across an article in Sci.space.shuttle >regarding the following matter : > >"Method and Apparatus for Generating a Secondary Gravitational Force Field" > > U. S Patent # 3,626,605 awarded to Henry M. Wallace December 14, 1971. > >My questions are as follows : > >1. How does one find out if there IS such a patent without going through > a Patent Attorney ? Many libraries have books which list patents and documents pertaining to individual patents, listed by patent number, I believe. Some libraries have CD-ROM patent databases which also allow searching for the patent holder or subject. >2. As a U. S. Citizen, am I entitled to see such a document ? It's not a right, but it is available to you, and should be at your local library. >3. Will it cost me very much money to see such a document should I be > able to do so ? Not at a library. > Not that I can believe that twenty years ago some one came up with an actual >working model, but I would like to see the document if it exists. > I would also like to see it. I'll check in my university library later today, and report the results here if noone else has already done so. Don Kauffman Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51252 alt.alien.visitors:9814 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!sitka.triumf.ca!morgan From: morgan@sitka.triumf.ca (Morgan Burke) Subject: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Sender: news@unixg.ubc.ca (Usenet News Maintenance) Nntp-Posting-Host: sitka.triumf.ca Organization: TRIUMF, Vancouver BC Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:49:33 GMT Lines: 25 Found in the Popular Mechanics classifieds: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- PERFECT KNOWLEDGE ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ETERNAL'S Original Measures contain Total Knowledge. Enhance Einsteinic dimensions. Gather unlimited, recycled. FREE energy from CREATOR'S Time Bank for home, factory, pleasure. Eliminates deadly experimental research, pollution, friction, Taxes! Permanent power plants have NO moving parts! Transportation VEHICLES use Monadic Grav- ity. 1000 year built-in durability. Small, crash-proof, family- model, Mini-Star Limited To under/over water within buffer zone. Maximum speed 50,000 M.P.H. Relegates death- dealing wheels To Stone Age. SURVIVE due Seal Six and ENJOY The riches of Heaven of Time Station Earth! No mail. Test for qualifications in person. ATA Base, 1500 North Texas, Welasco, Texas. Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort. Any ideas or suggestions as to its real meaning? -- Morgan Burke (morgan@reg.triumf.ca) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Spokesman for Earth voting is complete Message-ID: <1992Sep30.173635.21312@netcom.com> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Netcom - Your Only Choice Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:36:35 GMT Lines: 9 As the time for ending the Spokesman for Earth voting has passed, the election is now closed. Votes received after 00:00 GMT today will be counted if they carry a timestamp earlier than the deadline. Allowing for variously speedy/slothlike mail propagation, the results will be posted to this forum Friday, 2 October. -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Sep30.174319.18281@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:40:38 GMT Lines: 53 In article <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes... >I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much >to see what people on the net think of his views. > >This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director >and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared >as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7, >Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7. > >He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings, >and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the >earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public. >The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability >among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional >control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to >admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and >technological >capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived >by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional >power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and >social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the >public. The national oligarchical establishments, even civilization as we >now know it, could collapse into anarchy. Such extreme conclusions are not >necessaril7y valid, but they probably accurately reflect the fears of the >*ruling classes* of the major nations, whose leaders (particularly those >in the intelligence business) have always advocated excessive governmental >secrecy as being necessary to preserve *national security.** > >That's the quote. > >So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization >as we know it. What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? >WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs >and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some >discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. > >Regards, Lou Crago > Lou, I don't think people today would get very upset at all. As a matter of fact, I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like this ... waiting for it. There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our systems. I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people a whole new outlook on life.. on existence... mary stanley Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u55909 Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago Date: Wednesday, 30 Sep 1992 13:17:55 CDT From: Message-ID: <92274.131755U55909@uicvm.uic.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Sumerians References: <1992Sep21.013512.17830@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <92267.234519A54SI@CUNYVM.BITNET> <1992Sep24.150752.8061@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 8 The rest of Sitchen's volumes include: STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN, LOST REALMS, WARS OF GODS AND MEN, 12TH PLANET, GENESIS REVISITED (COMPANION BOOK). That's not the order though, I think it's 12th, stairway, wars, lost realms, Genesis (comp.), Definitely check them out. The series tends to be a tad boring 'cause of all the ancient text, theories, evidence, etc. But definitely read Genesis Revisit ed. I think that's all of them. ---Shawn--- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9818 alt.conspiracy:18591 alt.politics.perot:2989 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: **GREY OCTOBER** Message-ID: <1992Sep30.182625.23571@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 40 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Sep30.171601.13346@sunova.ssc.gov> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:26:25 GMT In article <1992Sep30.171601.13346@sunova.ssc.gov>, kevlar@andorra.ssc.gov (Kevlar) writes: |> HERE IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL FEAR.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |> |> |>OCTOBER SURPISE???? |> |>You Fools! Perot is a Grey. |>How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech. |>Why did he suddenly decide to run? |>Why is he so secretive? |>Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes President? |>Why is he so scared of the press? |>Why does he want to hook up the country electronically? |>Who is he really reporting to? |> |>Is he really running for office? of course he is!! |> |>I think it is clear what his plans were. |>He is going to gain the Presidency. Clear the way for the Grey invasion. |>And kick back with a Miller in a human free world. |> |>Scared Yet? I'm shaking in my boots...NOT! GET A LIFE! Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u55909 Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago Date: Wednesday, 30 Sep 1992 13:36:42 CDT From: Message-ID: <92274.133642U55909@uicvm.uic.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO talk shows? References: <1992Sep25.095738.13554@email.tuwien.ac.at> <26228@castle.ed.ac.uk> <1992Sep26.034837.8459@syma.sussex.ac.uk> Lines: 6 Extremely humorous satellite story (NOT!). ANYWAY, if you are fortunate enough (rich enough!) to have a dish, William Cooper(YES! The one and only! Stick the Flames up your ass instead of sending them to me). On Mondays, Teusday, and Wednesdays on satellite. Albeit, he doesn't deal with UFO's too much lately. For more info call 1 (310) 281-8222(machine). ---Shawn--- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11926 alt.alien.visitors:9820 sci.skeptic:31770 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 30 Sep 92 19:27:57 GMT References: <66752@cup.portal.com> <66827@cup.portal.com> <66888@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 32 In article <66888@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear People: In regards to the question of frequency and consistency >it is my opinion that it can be explained by using the colors of the >rainbow. Red in the lowest which is hate, lust and etc. Not in order >you come to blue which is when you are in a blue downcast mood. Purple >is good and high. Gold and white is the best and highest which are true >love. These colors come through in the aura and the frequency of a person >in the color of the aura. The higher the frequency of your aura is the >higher evolved you are. In most cases the finer the consistency of a >being the higher the developement of that being. It appear that some >people are now picking up my spirit at other times other than when we >are having the experiments. My spirit seem to do that without my >concious mind being aware of it. Tonight is OOBE Wednesday. John Winston. John - ok, so frequency & consistency are somehow indicated by the color of an 'aura'. Is there a method of evaluating an aura other than with the naked eye? Ie, is there any independant confirmation of the existence of auras? I've read of some controlled experiments regarding auras, and they always seem to indicate that auras are a figment of the perceiver's imagination, and have no objective reality. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? RA rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu -------------------------- The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and ask for one. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!vere From: vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> Summary: Demoralization of Scientists by Alien Confirmation Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:58:43 GMT Lines: 69 In article <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: > I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much > to see what people on the net think of his views. > > He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings, > and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the > earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public. > The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability > among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional > control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to > admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and > technological > capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived > by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional > power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and > social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the > public. > > WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs > and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some > discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. > > Regards, Lou Crago > I'd like to confine my comments to the effect of OFFICIAL confirmation of aliens on the scientific community. Scientists would be demoralized to a devastating degree. Let's say you are a scientific demigod at Stanford. You've spent your best years working 70 hours a week to become the expert in, say, high temperature superconductors. You're on national boards and committees, you have lucrative consulting arrangements with major corporations, maybe your own company with stock holdings. You bought a vacation home on Maui two years ago. You're talking to Clinton staffers about FY94 "investment" in a National Superconduction Research Center, of which you will be the director. In short, you're fat and happy. Now George Bush, who will do anything to win the election, holds a national press conference and lays it all out. The ultimate October surprise. Aliens are real. They are a million years ahead of us in science. They are willing to share their knowledge with us. He shows photos, video tapes, trots out an NSA spook to field questions. And of course he takes credit for reaching the secret diplomatic agreement with the Aliens. How is our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this? For him it is a personal CATASTROPHE! Yes, he would like to learn the secrets of the universe, but his life is in ruins. Superconduction theory is now irrelevant, childlike. His scientific and financial position has evaporated. The next day in a graduate seminar, his students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when it is now all useless drivel. And they're right. The universities, industrial research labs, DARPA, and the National Science Foundation people are totally demoralized, in chaos. Everyone has to go back to kindergarten. Fine if you are six years old, catastrophic if you are 40 or 50, like everyone in the scientific power structure. -- _____________________________________________________________________ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| | _____________________________________________________________________ Steven Vere vere@netcom.com Boulder Creek, California 70571.521@compuserve.com _____________________________________________________________________ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| | _____________________________________________________________________ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!battin From: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (L GENE BATTIN) Subject: Re: October 28th. Message-ID: News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Keywords: The end. Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu Reply-To: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu Organization: VENUS.IUCF.INDIANA.EDU References: <29SEP199217121120@apsicc.aps.edu> <1992Sep30.131707.15663@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Distribution: world Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:00:18 GMT Lines: 47 In article <1992Sep30.131707.15663@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes... > >In article <29SEP199217121120@apsicc.aps.edu>, >jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) writes: > >|>Hello all, >|> Some time ago one of the a.a.v people posted an explanation for the >|>"Last Trumpet Day" said to occur on the 28th., of October. I didn't >|>manage to obtain a printout of the explanation but if the person could >|>repost it I would appreciate it greatly. There are some fundamentalists >|>I am in an ongoing argument with and I really need the facts about the >|>subject. >|> With appreciation in advance, >|> Jim > > > Just tell them to GET A LIFE! You can't win an argument with > Fundies. They wouldn't listen to reason if Jesus Christ told > them himself/herself/itself. > > Just let it rest until the 29th of October when everyone is still > here and then you can go to the Fundies and go PPPPPHHHHHTTTTT! > > This same thing happened with me in 1988 when the Fundies (some > not all) were convinced that the second coming would happen on > Rashashana (sp sorry) because of a poorly written book: "88 Reasons > why the rapture will happen in 1988). A fellow co-worker was > convinced that he and his family were going to rapture out. Well > I argued until blue in the face with no success. I then said to > him that he should take everything he owns and all his money and > give it to a charitable organization. He wouldn't do it. Some > faith you have I said. Fell on deaf ears. The day after the > supposed event I went to him and ask how it felt to be made a fool > of. Well, hey, don't stop here! We're all anxious to know: How did he feel to be made fool of? Did he learn anything from this experience, or did he continue his gullible ways? > > Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids > battin@venmus.iucf.indiana.edu no .sig yet Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: UFOs and the Bible. Message-ID: <1992Sep30.192431.1704@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <26385@castle.ed.ac.uk> <3s+pknm.rickg@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:24:31 GMT Lines: 21 In article <3s+pknm.rickg@netcom.com> rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: >In article <26385@castle.ed.ac.uk> M Holmes writes: > >>We should ship 'em some arms. Where there's a war, there's a profit. > >But, as I'm sure you'll agree, it would be a profit without honor. But only in his own country. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51274 alt.alien.visitors:9824 talk.rumors:3278 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!battin From: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (L GENE BATTIN) Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.iucf.indiana.edu Reply-To: battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu Organization: VENUS.IUCF.INDIANA.EDU References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> Distribution: usa Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:09:25 GMT Lines: 42 In article <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca>, morgan@sitka.triumf.ca (Morgan Burke) writes... >Found in the Popular Mechanics classifieds: > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > PERFECT KNOWLEDGE >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ETERNAL'S Original Measures contain Total Knowledge. >Enhance Einsteinic dimensions. Gather unlimited, recycled. >FREE energy from CREATOR'S Time Bank for home, >factory, pleasure. Eliminates deadly experimental research, >pollution, friction, Taxes! Permanent power plants have NO >moving parts! Transportation VEHICLES use Monadic Grav- >ity. 1000 year built-in durability. Small, crash-proof, family- >model, Mini-Star Limited To under/over water within buffer >zone. Maximum speed 50,000 M.P.H. Relegates death- >dealing wheels To Stone Age. SURVIVE due Seal Six and >ENJOY The riches of Heaven of Time Station Earth! No mail. >Test for qualifications in person. ATA Base, 1500 North >Texas, Welasco, Texas. > > >Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort. Any ideas or >suggestions as to its real meaning? Wonder if this is from the Something-or-other Time Ark Base people I recall seeing mentioned in the _Fringes_of_Reason_ Whole Earth Catalog book? If so, (and my memory isn't totally wrong, it's hard to keep all these types separate) these folks expect to survive an end-o-the-world scenario _and_ get access to alien spacecraft technology, or sumpin like that. I believe that they expect believers to invest a little elbow-grease in their project. IMHO, amusing, but wHOLY INFERIOR to the Sub-genius eschatology. > >-- Morgan Burke (morgan@reg.triumf.ca) > Gene Battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu no .sig yet Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!news.Vanderbilt.Edu!news From: MANEJWZA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu () Subject: Zaxxon Message-ID: <1992Sep30.204154.8791@news.vanderbilt.edu> Sender: news@news.vanderbilt.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu Organization: Vanderbilt University Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:41:54 GMT X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21 Lines: 24 Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! I am Zaxxon. I have found the Florida Everglades and am currently imbibingavailable swamp gas and will be releasing it over the Nashville and Lousville area on October 3rd. Meanwhile, I must warn you! Warning: Do not light a match between the hours of 700 and 1800 hours on the 3rd of October. Preview: My next mission is to somehow reinstate Perot back to the elections. This we can greatly profit from. Warning 2: This second warning is out to Clinton and Bush! Due to unexpected favors toward Ross Perot, you will be soaked in C8H6O8+N3(OH) at vrious intervals during the Southern debate. End Message: Zaxxon $567.S3453@world#879.4 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!destroyer!terminator!pablo.physics.lsa.umich.edu!metzler From: metzler@pablo.physics.lsa.umich.edu (Chris Metzler) Subject: Re: Zaxxon Message-ID: <1992Sep30.223154.16232@terminator.cc.umich.edu> Sender: news@terminator.cc.umich.edu (Usenet Owner) Organization: University of Michigan Department of Physics References: <1992Sep30.204154.8791@news.vanderbilt.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:31:54 GMT Lines: 9 In article <1992Sep30.204154.8791@news.vanderbilt.edu>, MANEJWZA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu () writes: |> |> Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! |> |> |> I am Zaxxon . . . You are goofy, too. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!rutgers!ukma!darwin.sura.net!news.larc.nasa.gov!ames!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Repost Object Beyond Pluto Message-ID: <1992Sep30.143825.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 30 Sep 92 21:38:25 GMT Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 72 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu X-NEWS: cubldr.colorado.edu alt.alien.visitors: 9540 Path: ucsu!boulder!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <1992Sep24.232954.22567@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 24 Sep 92 23:29:54 GMT References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> <24SEP199209005395@jane.uh.edu> <1992Sep24.183001.408@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 59 Forwarded (without permission of the original author(s)) from sci.space: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Article: 46898 of sci.space Xref: mprgate.mpr.ca sci.astro:25399 sci.space:46898 Path: mprgate.mpr.ca!ubc-cs!destroyer!gatech!gitvm1.gatech.edu!gtri01.gatech.edu!labbey Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute Date: Tuesday, 15 Sep 1992 15:21:46 EDT From: Message-ID: <92259.152146LABBEY@GTRI01.GATECH.EDU> Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space Subject: New Planet? The following bulletin was posted last night on CompuServe's ASTROFORUM: #: 110734 S14/News/Current Events 14-Sep-92 18:07:11 Sb: #Object beyond Pluto Fm: SKY TELESCOPE 70007,2762 To: All There is some REALLY BIG NEWS just now breaking in the astronomical world. The IAU Central Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams has just issued IAU Circular 5611 to report the discovery of a faint object that seems to be outside the orbit of Pluto! Brian Marsden has given it the preliminary designation of an asteroid: 1992 QB1. But its true nature will be the subject of intense observations in the next few months. Dan Green of the CBAT says they really don't want people to start calling this thing "Planet X" or the 10th planet or anything like that. It's just too soon to say. For example, he says it could turn out to be a huge comet coming in. It is now so far away that if it is a comet on a very elongated orbit it may take 30 years to reach perihelion. Then it could well become the Comet of the (21st) Century!! The discovery was made by David Jewitt and Jane Luu using the University of Hawaii's 2.2-meter telescope on Mauna Kea. The first images were secured August 30, but just as with the discovery of Pluto in 1930 the discovery was kept "under wraps" for awhile to allow a better assessment. The object appears stellar and has a visual magnitude of 23.5 Jewitt and Luu note that the object is fairly red, suggesting a surface rich in organics. The current position is, for 0h UT on September 15, 1992: 0h 00.09 +0d 01'.7 (2000.0). The only orbit solution Marsden has published so far is a circular one, which puts the object at 41.2 a.u. from the Sun. It is moving retrograde at only 3" per hour. Stay tuned! -- Roger Sinnott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9828 alt.mythology:1824 sci.skeptic:31786 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.mythology,alt.anthropology,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Research item - The Mannegishi Message-ID: <1992Sep30.224423.5461@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 22:44:23 GMT Lines: 42 [Sorry about the repost. My attempt at cross-posting didn't seem to work last time (something didn't seem to like spaces between the newsgroups.) - LS] I was reading a cryptozoology book a while ago when I came across an interesting reference. It was in Daniel Cohen's book "Encyclopedia of Monsters" (1982, ISBN 0-948397-94-2) on page 197 within an entry on the "Dover Demon" event in April of 1977. The text was discussing various proposed explanations for the "demon" sighting. "... Someone also mentioned the Mannegishi creature, from the mythology of the Cree Indians of Canada. They are supposed to be little people with big round heads, small skinny bodies, big eyes and no noses. Their main purpose in life, according to the legends, was to play jokes on the big people." The resemblence to "our friends the greys" (tm) is interesting and I was curious if it goes any further. Maybe the greys were visiting the Cree, or maybe we have a mythological precedent for the greys physical appearance. Does anyone have any information on the Mannegishi or know of a good reference book? I know I could just go to a library and look it up, but my free time is non-existent; besides, others might enjoy this. Note: I set the followups to alt.alien.visitors. Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Well, it's October ... Message-ID: <10495@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 30 Sep 92 23:35:37 GMT Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 21 Well, it's now October 1st, 1992 here in sunny Queensland, Australia. For those of you who are new to alt.alien.visitors, there have been rumors and crazy-posts flying all year that October would see some big relevation about aliens, UFOs, etc, from the US government or military. So, keep your eyes glued to your TV sets everyone. One never knows. I reckon that such an announcement this close to the US election is _very_ unlikely, but I won't kick up a stink if I'm proved wrong. Any big announcement in October is more likely to be about some mundane US political matter that the rest of the world (including me) doesn't give a damn about. Cheers, Rhys. P.S. Kids, supaglue should not be used when glueing your eyes to the TV. It is very difficult to remove, and could be damaging to your eyes. :-) -- Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!udel!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!news.cs.indiana.edu!ethome.et.iupui.edu!indyvax.iupui.edu!harvey From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Zaxxon Message-ID: <1992Sep30.172337.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 23 Sender: usenet@ethome.et.iupui.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Purdue University, Indianapolis References: <1992Sep30.204154.8791@news.vanderbilt.edu> Date: 30 Sep 92 17:23:37 -0500 In article <1992Sep30.204154.8791@news.vanderbilt.edu>, MANEJWZA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu () writes: > > Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! Warning! > > > I am Zaxxon. I have found the Florida Everglades and am currently > imbibingavailable swamp gas and will be releasing it over the Nashville > and Lousville area on October 3rd. Meanwhile, I must warn you! Dear Mr. Zaxxon: Last time you called yourself Earl, so I'll call you Earl Zaxxon. Every fall we get a few letters like yours from freshmen looking for swamp gas. There is no need to be looking for it in swamps. The human race breeds an animal that can process large quantities of vegetation into meat and swamp gas (methane, CH4). It is called a cow. Millions of these creatures are roaming about Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa among other states. The gas is expelled from an oriface on the rear of the animal. I suggest you find a herd of these animals to satisfy your needs. But be careful and don't let 'em kick you. -- James Harvey harvey@iupui.edu uucp: iugate!harvey bitnet: harvey@indyvax Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.sdsu.edu!pandora!cs107028 From: cs107028@pandora.sdsu.edu (Charles Herbig) Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters... Message-ID: <1992Oct1.004922.25753@newshub.sdsu.edu> Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: pandora Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5 References: Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:49:22 GMT Lines: 14 Nick Sabadosh (nsabados@s.psych.uiuc.edu) wrote: : [...stuff deleted...] : Anyway, I was wide awake at this point, but experienced that kind of paralysis : you get when you wake right from REM sleep. I couldn't move, but my eyes were : open. Needless to say, this added to my uneasiness with the situation. : [...more stuff deleted...] Sorry to disappoint you, sbut the paralysis you experienced is completely normal. When you enter REM sleep, your parasympathetic nervous system causes your body to become completely relaxed, and incapable of movement. This is so you don't start thrashing around in your sleep and beat your wife up or break your leg or something. It is very common, and any aliens taking credit for it should immediately be sued for everything they're worth! ;) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11928 alt.alien.visitors:9832 sci.skeptic:31789 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66929@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 18:01:19 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 38 1>+T Subject: History of the Earth (4.5 billion years). There were upheavals, eruptions of volcanoes and land movements and this caused that colony to go out of existence. The third colony vanished as the sun underwent minor changes and all but scorched most of the life on the earth. After that time there were the heat resistant brutes or dinosaurs came into being The sun was very hot it was scorching the earth and these animals came into being. These dinosaurs ruled the earth for tens of thousands of years. The dinosaurs defied even the star men's efforts to exterminate them. The space people came and tried to exterminate them, to kill the dinosaurs off. They were getting out of hand, they even defied them (the space people). The earth went into kind of a ice age. It became sort of a waste land and this caused the dinosaurs to go out of existence and this lasted for tens of thousands of years. The fourth time man came from the stars he returned to replinsh the earth, the fifth, sixth and seventh time, again and again the colonies were destroyed by cataclysms, by large animals, by heat, by cold, by war and by nature. When ever the eight colony came along man with a war like energy came to the earth in search of fortuns of inner glactic war. They came here and they were very energetic people. Many colors, mentalities and temperaments were the space people that came. They were the forbearers of those who populated Atlantis. Part 2. John Winston. asaurs ruled the earth for tens of thousandsTwZ " Date: 30 Sep 92 18:43:14 GMT Expires: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 05:00:00 GMT Sender: curt@quest.UUCP (Curtis Gibson) Organization: Quest Research Lines: 12 DIVERSICON June 18-20, 1993 Mineapolis-St.Paul Minnesota Science Fiction, Science Fantasy, Fantasy, Fandom, Writer's Workshop An electronic flyer for Diversicon has been posted on alt.fandom.cons & rec.arts.sf.fandom. Please check it out and pass it on to anyone who might be interested. A.C. Crispin will hold a Writer's Workshop. Curtis S. Gibson curt%quest.UUCP@cs.umn.edu Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445 From: Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <15870@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 1 Oct 92 01:14:24 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 6 Gee, I thought I saw John's aura last night. It sure was having fun without him and it had red polkadots, blue stripe and little green and yellow lightning bolts. John, howcum you never tell us of these late night astral plane, happenin' plces. I found it when the transdimensional astral plane had to make a forced landing. Going there Friday night for sure. Let's have a party. :) And bring some aliens! =:-) Colleen Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!yale!news.wesleyan.edu!eagle.wesleyan.edu!jtulli From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters... Message-ID: <1992Sep30.212536.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> Date: 1 Oct 92 01:25:36 GMT Organization: Wesleyan University Lines: 9 Nntp-Posting-Host: eagle.wesleyan.edu concerning the question whether dreams involving aliens are a sign of an actual abduction, i have been told by someone i believe to know more about the whole thing than me that the answer is a definate maybe... i can understand the fear that has been discussed...i have remembered two dreams involving aliens and i don't think i've EVER been as scared as in those dreams... anyone else have some information on this? Jude Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <10499@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 1 Oct 92 01:46:03 GMT References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 40 In <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: > How is our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this? For >him it is a personal CATASTROPHE! Yes, he would like to learn the >secrets of the universe, but his life is in ruins. Superconduction >theory is now irrelevant, childlike. His scientific and financial >position has evaporated. The next day in a graduate seminar, his >students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when >it is now all useless drivel. And they're right. There's always the "we don't need no stinking aliens - we'll do it ourselves" angle. Who cares if it takes a few hundred years to "catch up"? At least we can say that we did on our own, and aren't beholden to the aliens forever. I'd expect most scientists would jump at the opportunity to study alien technology, even if it makes their research obselete. If our hypothetical Standford luminary is the only person (or one of a select few) that have any hope of understanding the alien technology, his position of power has not evaporated at all. If however he is just a suit, getting on committees due to political power, then it's time to hand over the reigns to someone more capable anyway. You must crawl before you walk. Newtonian mechanics is still taught in schools even though we know that Einstein showed it to be strictly incorrect. It is still taught because it is easier to understand than Einsteinian mechanics, and forms a good basis for beginning to understand Einsteinian mechanics. The current education system can form just as good a basis for alien technology as it does for human technology. We don't need to treat alien technology as a mysterious "gift from the Gods". We'll make better use of it if we understand how it works, and develop our own versions. I think most people would agree that knowing how the gadgets work is a good protection against the day the aliens don't like us any more, or we don't like them. Cheers, Rhys. -- Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!ross-c From: ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk (R Clement) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Viva La Cicciolina! Message-ID: <6299@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> Date: 30 Sep 92 20:22:44 GMT References: Sender: news@cs.man.ac.uk Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies Lines: 9 Originator: ross-c@csparc12 In article rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) writes: > >It's not too late, it's too early. Voting begins at 00:00 GMT Monday, >28 September. This week is for the campaign. > When does voting finish then? If it isn't finished yet, CICCIOLINA! Ross-c Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!vere From: vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct1.053513.14191@netcom.com> Summary: Congressman Traxler Cares Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <10499@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:35:13 GMT Lines: 44 In article <10499@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) writes: > There's always the "we don't need no stinking aliens - we'll do it ourselves" > angle. Who cares if it takes a few hundred years to "catch up"? Congressman Traxler cares. This is the gentleman who led the recent attempt to cut ALL funding for the space station in the US House of Representatives. In recent years the margin of approval has been progressively diminishing. Mr. Traxler and his bretheren are going to say, with some justification, "Why should we spend $20 billion over the next ten years on scientific research and engineering when we could use the money to rebuild the slums in Detroit or start reducing the federal deficit." You could set up some relatively small and cheap Alien tech transfer committees that would yield a much better return on the taxpayers' investment. I would agree with this approach. Prof. Luminary's knowledge, his lab equipment, and his stock holdings are now worthless. And just as important, his ego would be deflated and he would be in psychic shock. The politicians would be justified in freezing or cancelling the funding for most existing scientific research projects. Only a few would be continued and redirected to examine the new Alien scientific theories. We see a small hint of the same phenomenon in the effect on US science and engineering of the collapse of the Soviet Union. A million scientist and engineers are losing their jobs because the justification for the projects went away. Congress doesn't care. Let them relocate to Detroit and fix potholes. California is now in the worst economic condition since the depression, with defense spending cuts a major cause. Official confirmation of Alien technology would magnify this phenomenon 1000 times. -- _____________________________________________________________________ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| | _____________________________________________________________________ Steven Vere vere@netcom.com Boulder Creek, California 70571.521@compuserve.com _____________________________________________________________________ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| |__| | _____________________________________________________________________ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS! Message-ID: <66960@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 23:48:52 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <92272.205813JKC3@psuvm.psu.edu> Lines: 5 I heard somewhere that there is a law against talking to aliens, we could get a $10,000. fine from the federal govt. for communicating with aliens. Has anyone else heard this? I think I heard it from G. Green so I am not sure how true it is. DS Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct1.055445.5038@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> <10499@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:54:45 GMT Lines: 15 rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) writes: >You must crawl before you walk. Newtonian mechanics is still taught in >schools even though we know that Einstein showed it to be strictly incorrect. >It is still taught because it is easier to understand than Einsteinian .mechanics, and forms a good basis for beginning to understand Einsteinian >mechanics. The current education system can form just as good a basis for >alien technology as it does for human technology. sorry, newtonian mechanics is taught because it is absolutely accurate in just about all situations. it only begins to break down at very high accelerations. artillery and interplanetary flight calculations are per- formed using newtonian mechnics. josh Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9841 sci.skeptic:31808 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) Subject: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Summary: mars observer's on it's way ... let's drag this one out again. Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:05:52 GMT Lines: 27 Well, mars observer has been launched. barring untoward circumstances, it should be in position and taking pictures in 11 months or so. with cameras of 3 meter resolution, the 'Face on Mars' question should be settled (one way or another) within the next couple of years. Some months ago, someone here gave me odds that the various formations there were not artificial in nature. In other words, we have a bet going wherein if the Cydonia formations are *not* artificial, I pay him a certain amount of money, and if they *are* artificial, he pays me a certain (larger) amount of money. Judgement (in this case) is to be by mr. tim maroney, of san francisco (maroney@toad.com). I'd like to reiterate my position: I do not, myself, know if the formations in cydonia on mars are artificial. I think the pictures of the 'face', 'city', 'straight wall', 'pyramid', 'fortress' etc are intriguing and I eagerly await better photographs than we now have. Most people who express disbelief in the artificiality of these formations have expressed their disbelief so forcefully, that I am taking bets (at whatever odds (favorable to me) you like). If you believe without a doubt that the 'face on mars' is not an artificial formation, here is your chance to put your money where your mouth is. josh Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: October 28th. Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:26:50 GMT Message-ID: <1992Oct1.032650.101@bilver.uucp> Keywords: The end. References: <29SEP199217121120@apsicc.aps.edu> <1992Sep30.131707.15663@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 56 In article <1992Sep30.131707.15663@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes: > >In article <29SEP199217121120@apsicc.aps.edu>, jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) writes: > >|>Hello all, >|> Some time ago one of the a.a.v people posted an explanation for the >|>"Last Trumpet Day" said to occur on the 28th., of October. I didn't >|>manage to obtain a printout of the explanation but if the person could >|>repost it I would appreciate it greatly. There are some fundamentalists >|>I am in an ongoing argument with and I really need the facts about the >|>subject. >|> With appreciation in advance, >|> Jim > > > Just tell them to GET A LIFE! You can't win an argument with > Fundies. They wouldn't listen to reason if Jesus Christ told > them himself/herself/itself. > > Just let it rest until the 29th of October when everyone is still > here and then you can go to the Fundies and go PPPPPHHHHHTTTTT! > > This same thing happened with me in 1988 when the Fundies (some > not all) were convinced that the second coming would happen on > Rashashana (sp sorry) because of a poorly written book: "88 Reasons > why the rapture will happen in 1988). A fellow co-worker was > convinced that he and his family were going to rapture out. Well > I argued until blue in the face with no success. I then said to > him that he should take everything he owns and all his money and > give it to a charitable organization. He wouldn't do it. Some > faith you have I said. Fell on deaf ears. The day after the > supposed event I went to him and ask how it felt to be made a fool > of. > > Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids Well, Stevie boy, listen up.. According to a good friend who is DEEP on the inside of the "gummint" the CIA is VERY interested in increased military desertions going on right now in South Korea. The reason? Why it's because there's a bunch of these religious fanatics who are claiming that Christ/rapture will return/happen (take your pick) on or about Oct 28th. Now ain't that the damndest thing you ever heard? :-) Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!crosfield!imt From: imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <15532@suns9.crosfield.co.uk> Date: 1 Oct 92 10:09:38 GMT References: <1992Sep30.174319.18281@engage.pko.dec.com> Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom. Lines: 33 >>So there it all is, the worst fears,even down to the collapse of civilization >>as we know it. What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? >>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs >>and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some >>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. >> >I don't think people today would get very upset at all. As a matter of fact, >I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like >this ... waiting for it. > >There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our >systems. I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people >a whole new outlook on life.. on existence... Thats true. I imagine that there would be people who couldn't deal with it, and would fall back on religion, madness or violence. However, in the main, I think it would be the biggest advance in history and would provide the kick in the pants mankind needs to put an end to the petty and meaningless conflicts which feature all too regularly through our history, and give us something to look up to. On the other hand, it would be the end of nationalism and governments as we know them, and while the populace would probably get behind that, I'm pretty sure that those in power wouldn't be too keen, hence the alledged cover-up. Personally, I don't think we'll ever see the secrecy lifted, unless the aliens (if they exist) do it themselves, or there is a major change in super power politics and policy, which is equally unlikely. ______________________________________________________________________________ | Ian Taylor (x4097) | | imt@cel.crosfield.uk | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!cnews From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS! Message-ID: Date: 1 Oct 92 10:56:34 GMT References: <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <66960@cup.portal.com> Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 14 In article <66960@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: > > I heard somewhere that there is a law against talking to aliens, we could > get a $10,000. fine from the federal govt. for communicating with aliens. > Has anyone else heard this? I think I heard it from G. Green so I am > not sure how true it is. I guess that this law is against talking to aliens in US territory, or do they also apply it if an US citizen talks to aliens anywhere in the world? In any case, there is no way it can be used agains me here, for example (except, of course, if I apply for a visa). Maybe we should hold another vote for a Non-US-citizen Spokesman for Earth, just in case this law really exists? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11931 alt.alien.visitors:9845 sci.skeptic:31820 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!firnvx.firn.edu!waddell From: waddell@firnvx.firn.edu (Kathy Waddell) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Oct1.131518.28896@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 Sender: news@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Usenet News File Owner) Nntp-Posting-Host: firnvx.firn.edu Reply-To: waddell@firnvx.firn.edu Organization: Florida State University Computing Center References: <66752@cup.portal.com> <66827@cup.portal.com> <66888@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Distribution: world Date: 1 OCT 92 09:10:15 Lines: 11 In article <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>, rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) writes... > >I've read of some controlled experiments regarding auras, and they >always seem to indicate that auras are a figment of the perceiver's >imagination, and have no objective reality. Do you have any evidence >to the contrary? I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras. Have fun! =-Kathy-> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11932 alt.alien.visitors:9846 sci.skeptic:31823 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <66979@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 06:27:46 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66929@cup.portal.com> Lines: 6 Dear Astral Flyers: It seems that my last posting about the history of the earth got shot down towards the end by some flamer. I'll be on the sides of Mt. Shasta this weekend so this will be a good time for you flamers to put your flame throwers in the shop for a little perventative maintenance. Gotta go to work now. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <66980@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 06:37:23 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <66798@cup.portal.com> Lines: 6 Dear Folks: I just got a phone call from R. Stanley, the person who took me on the tour of the 30,000 year old city. He says he has reports of a person who has a real fresh dinosaur bird (pterodactyl) head also reports of live dinosaurs. I never have found out about the Unicorn research that has been going on lately. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11933 alt.alien.visitors:9848 alt.religion.kibology:4018 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <66981@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 06:49:23 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <66451@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5.tellabs.com> Lines: 8 Dear Folks: Some people may like to call this the end times and that is OK, because it is the end of the age. The bible says that Jesus said I'll be with you to the end of the world, and it did say this in the King James version of the bible but in the original text it says, I will be with you to the end of the age. We're just getting started folks, hold on to your hats. It may get a little bumpy before we get to smooth sailing. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: October 28th. Message-ID: <1992Oct1.133848.18235@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Keywords: The end. Lines: 29 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <29SEP199217121120@apsicc.aps.edu> <1992Sep30.131707.15663@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Distribution: world Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:38:48 GMT In article , battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (L GENE BATTIN) writes: |>> faith you have I said. Fell on deaf ears. The day after the |>> supposed event I went to him and ask how it felt to be made a fool |>> of. |> |>Well, hey, don't stop here! We're all anxious to know: How did he feel |>to be made fool of? Did he learn anything from this experience, or |>did he continue his gullible ways? Well he didn't have an answer. Didn't say anything at all. He is still a Fundie but is a bit more wary of fanatical Fundies bearing strang gifts Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS! Message-ID: <1992Oct1.134725.18474@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 26 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <66960@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:47:25 GMT In article <66960@cup.portal.com>, Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: |>I heard somewhere that there is a law against talking to aliens, we could |>get a $10,000. fine from the federal govt. for communicating with aliens. |>Has anyone else heard this? I think I heard it from G. Green so I am |>not sure how true it is. |>DS No you got it wrong. If you want to talk with aliens or go for a ride on an alien space craft you have to give me $10,000 cash no checks. I will then set up the interview/ride. Thanks for your support. Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: October 28th. Message-ID: <1992Oct1.140057.18851@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Keywords: The end. Lines: 37 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <29SEP199217121120@apsicc.aps.edu> <1992Sep30.131707.15663@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <1992Oct1.032650.101@bilver.uucp> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:00:57 GMT In article <1992Oct1.032650.101@bilver.uucp>, dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: |>Well, Stevie boy, listen up.. |> |>According to a good friend who is DEEP on the inside of the "gummint" |>the CIA is VERY interested in increased military desertions going on |>right now in South Korea. The reason? Why it's because there's a bunch |>of these religious fanatics who are claiming that Christ/rapture will |>return/happen (take your pick) on or about Oct 28th. |> |>Now ain't that the damndest thing you ever heard? :-) NO it's not the damndest thing I ever heard. Stupid maybe. |> |>Don Well Donnie boy, listen up yourself... Yah! right! And on the 29th of October I'm going to go: PPPHHHTTT!!!! RELIGION! Just say NO! Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9852 sci.skeptic:31826 alt.flame:44316 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.flame Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <2ACAFEFB.699E@tct.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:36:58 GMT References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Lines: 14 According to joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller): >If the Cydonia formations are *not* artificial, I pay him a certain amount >of money, and if they *are* artificial, he pays me a certain (larger) amount >of money. Judgement (in this case) is to be by mr. tim maroney, of san >francisco (maroney@toad.com). Maroney? He'll probably make both of you pay. -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT , <73717.366@compuserve.com> "My favorite phenomenon is when someone mails me or posts to this group, either calling me a newbie or telling me that my postings are not relevant to alt.non.sequitur." -- Matt Welsh Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9853 alt.conspiracy:18601 alt.politics.perot:3017 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot Subject: Re: **GREY OCTOBER** Message-ID: <561B02Vd24bH01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 1 Oct 92 14:30:52 GMT References: <1992Sep30.171601.13346@sunova.ssc.gov> <1992Sep30.182625.23571@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 17 >|>Scared Yet? > > I'm shaking in my boots...NOT! GET A LIFE! > > > Steve Food_for_the_Grays/Reptoids Steve Get a life... IT'S A JOKE! You are such a geek ;-) P.S. The "NOT" thing is way over used. Not funny anymore. -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct1.145810.17625@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: 1 Oct 92 15:52:20 GMT Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 28 In article <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com>, vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes... > > How is our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this? For >him it is a personal CATASTROPHE! Yes, he would like to learn the >secrets of the universe, but his life is in ruins. Superconduction >theory is now irrelevant, childlike. His scientific and financial >position has evaporated. The next day in a graduate seminar, his >students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when >it is now all useless drivel. And they're right. > The universities, industrial research labs, DARPA, and the National >Science Foundation people are totally demoralized, in chaos. Everyone >has to go back to kindergarten. Fine if you are six years old, >catastrophic if you are 40 or 50, like everyone in the scientific >power structure.> > Steven Vere vere@netcom.com > Boulder Creek, California 70571.521@compuserve.com >_____________________________________________________________________ So what are you saying, Steve? That humanity should be held back to protect the ego and bank account of a handfull of scientific dweebs who care more about their reputation than the truth? Humans adapt... it's what we do best... the scientific community can adapt too... science is supposed to be a search for truth.. They rest of us adapt all the time... we have to... the demigods can figure out how to do it too. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Repost Object Beyond Pluto Message-ID: <1992Oct1.150543.17949@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: 1 Oct 92 16:02:56 GMT Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 35 In article <1992Sep30.143825.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes... >X-NEWS: cubldr.colorado.edu alt.alien.visitors: 9540 >Path: ucsu!boulder!agate!spool.mu.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani >From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) >Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors >Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? >Message-ID: <1992Sep24.232954.22567@mprgate.mpr.ca> >Date: 24 Sep 92 23:29:54 GMT >References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <19kiolINNmsf@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <1992Sep21.193836.5428@lmt.mn.org> <24SEP199209005395@jane.uh.edu> <1992Sep24.183001.408@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> >Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca >Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors >Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada >Lines: 59 > >The following bulletin was posted last night on CompuServe's ASTROFORUM: > > > >#: 110734 S14/News/Current Events > 14-Sep-92 18:07:11 >Sb: #Object beyond Pluto >Fm: SKY TELESCOPE 70007,2762 >To: All > >There is some REALLY BIG NEWS just now breaking in the astronomical world. The >IAU Central Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams has just issued IAU Circular 5611 >to report the discovery of a faint object that seems to be outside the orbit of >Pluto! Brian Marsden has given it the preliminary designation of an asteroid: >1992 QB1. But its true nature will be the subject of intense observations in >the next few months. Watch it pick up speed and alter it's course to get it... then it swings into orbit around Earth... :-) .... this ought to be interesting... Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct1.151500.18431@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:11:01 GMT Lines: 41 In article <1992Oct1.053513.14191@netcom.com>, vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes... > Congressman Traxler cares. This is the gentleman who led the >recent attempt to cut ALL funding for the space station in the US >House of Representatives. In recent years the margin of approval has >been progressively diminishing. Mr. Traxler and his bretheren are >going to say, with some justification, "Why should we spend $20 >billion over the next ten years on scientific research and engineering >when we could use the money to rebuild the slums in Detroit or start >reducing the federal deficit." You could set up some relatively small >and cheap Alien tech transfer committees that would yield a much >better return on the taxpayers' investment. I would agree with this >approach. Prof. Luminary's knowledge, his lab equipment, and his >stock holdings are now worthless. And just as important, his ego >would be deflated and he would be in psychic shock. The politicians >would be justified in freezing or cancelling the funding for most >existing scientific research projects. Only a few would be continued >and redirected to examine the new Alien scientific theories. Is Professor Luminary's stock holdings and ego more important than the future an alien contact could open up for the rest of humanity? > We see a small hint of the same phenomenon in the effect on US >science and engineering of the collapse of the Soviet Union. A >million scientist and engineers are losing their jobs because the >justification for the projects went away. Congress doesn't care. Let >them relocate to Detroit and fix potholes. California is now in the >worst economic condition since the depression, with defense spending >cuts a major cause. Official confirmation of Alien technology would >magnify this phenomenon 1000 times. Oh come on... it would not... there aren't that many Professor Luminary's working for California. :-) Hey Professor Luminary... the rest of us have to learn to get by when our jobs go away... get back to the real world and stop expecting humanity to forfeit it's future to protect your stock and your ego. Mary Stanley Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct1.153043.19177@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:28:53 GMT Lines: 28 In article <15532@suns9.crosfield.co.uk>, imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) writes... > > >>>So there it all is, the worst fears,even down to the collapse of civilization >>>as we know it. What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? >>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs >>>and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some >>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. >>> >>I don't think people today would get very upset at all. As a matter of fact, >>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like >>this ... waiting for it. >> >Personally, I don't think we'll ever see the secrecy lifted, unless the aliens >(if they exist) do it themselves, or there is a major change in super power >politics and policy, which is equally unlikely. > >______________________________________________________________________________ >| Ian Taylor (x4097) | | imt@cel.crosfield.uk | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the aliens decide to do it themselves, Ian (and I am of the opinion that they've already made that decision), then we will quickly see a major change in super politics policy. Super politics policy adapts quickly... they are very pragmatic. :-) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9858 alt.conspiracy:18602 alt.politics.perot:3023 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!seas.gwu.edu!korman From: korman@seas.gwu.edu (John Korman) Subject: Re: **GREY OCTOBER** Message-ID: <1992Oct1.160140.11525@seas.gwu.edu> Organization: George Washington University References: <1992Sep30.171601.13346@sunova.ssc.gov> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:01:40 GMT Lines: 19 In article <1992Sep30.171601.13346@sunova.ssc.gov> kevlar@andorra.ssc.gov (Kevlar) writes: > > > > HERE IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL FEAR.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > >OCTOBER SURPISE???? > >You Fools! Perot is a Grey. >How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech. > ........ > >Scared Yet? >You should be! What the heck is a "Grey" ?????????????? Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9859 sci.skeptic:31834 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct1.164755.3331@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:47:55 GMT Lines: 29 In article <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes: |> Well, mars observer has been launched. barring untoward circumstances, it |> should be in position and taking pictures in 11 months or so. with cameras |> of 3 meter resolution, the 'Face on Mars' question should be settled (one |> way or another) within the next couple of years. |> |> Some months ago, someone here gave me odds that the various formations there |> were not artificial in nature. In other words, we have a bet going wherein |> if the Cydonia formations are *not* artificial, I pay him a certain amount |> of money, and if they *are* artificial, he pays me a certain (larger) amount |> of money. Judgement (in this case) is to be by mr. tim maroney, of san |> francisco (maroney@toad.com). Do I have to bet to find out how you are going to decide this question? Every legitimate geologists and planetary scientist I know of has said they are natural rock formations. Enthusiasts say otherwise. The evidence is just a pattern of pixels. How will you use the new evidence? Unless there are migs or radio dishes or something, just exactly what could be on the photo that would be defined as evidence of 'artificial'? And what could be on the photo that COULDN'T look artificial to a dedicated wonder-monger? And whose opinion will decide? -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11936 alt.alien.visitors:9860 sci.skeptic:31838 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!csd-d-5.Stanford.EDU!amorgan From: amorgan@csd-d-5.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Oct1.173122.18455@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Originator: amorgan@csd-d-5.Stanford.EDU Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin References: <66888@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Oct1.131518.28896@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:31:22 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1992Oct1.131518.28896@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu writes: >In article <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>, > rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) writes... >> >>I've read of some controlled experiments regarding auras, and they >>always seem to indicate that auras are a figment of the perceiver's >>imagination, and have no objective reality. Do you have any evidence >>to the contrary? > >I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras. Or, alternatively, not. See James Randi on the subject (in Flim Flam). >Have fun! =-Kathy-> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu C Frog Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51367 alt.alien.visitors:9861 talk.rumors:3284 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!pacbell.com!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!cs.widener.edu!ukma!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc10.harvard.edu!joltes Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: <1992Oct1.115833.15995@husc3.harvard.edu> From: joltes@husc10.harvard.edu (Richard Joltes) Date: 1 Oct 92 11:58:32 EDT References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> Organization: Harvard University Science Center Nntp-Posting-Host: husc10.harvard.edu Lines: 27 morgan@sitka.triumf.ca (Morgan Burke) writes: >Found in the Popular Mechanics classifieds: > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > PERFECT KNOWLEDGE >------------------------------------------------------------------------- [rest of ARTICLE with randomly CAPITALIZED words (a'la "CHICK books") deleted] >Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort. Any ideas or >suggestions as to its real meaning? If you use a secondary substitution key under a full moon and view the result through the bottom of a mayonnaise jar (kept on Terry Wood's front porch since Noon today) the ANSWER becomes clear: "no matter how thin you slice it, it's *still* baloney." --Milo Bloom, "Bloom County" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dick "where do they *get* these people?" Joltes joltes@husc.harvard.edu Hardware & Networking Manager, Computer Services joltes@husc.bitnet Harvard University Science Center "Mind you, not as bad as the night Archie Pettigrew ate some sheep's testicles for a bet...God, that bloody sheep kicked him..." Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11938 alt.alien.visitors:9862 alt.religion.kibology:4025 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!cnews From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Re^2: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: Date: 1 Oct 92 16:57:10 GMT References: <66451@cup.portal.com> <66981@cup.portal.com> Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 7 In article <66981@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > The bible says that Jesus > said I'll be with you to the end of the world, Really? I can't believe that the bible says that Jesus said you'll be with us to the end of the world. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters... Message-ID: <1992Oct1.193440.18908@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <1992Sep30.212536.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 19:34:40 GMT Lines: 41 In article <1992Sep30.212536.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: |> concerning the question whether dreams involving aliens are a sign of an actual |> abduction, i have been told by someone i believe to know more about the whole |> thing than me that the answer is a definate maybe... |> i can understand the fear that has been discussed...i have remembered two |> dreams involving aliens and i don't think i've EVER been as scared as in those |> dreams... |> anyone else have some information on this? |> |> Jude Since I have been researching UFOs and related subjects I have frequently had related dreams. Rather than a sign of abductions, I think it is a sign of exposure to the material. I wouldn't worry about it. Of course I have a scoop-mark scar on my lower leg that appeared out of nowhere several years ago, a history of sleep disturbances, and my 2 year old little girl kept waking up with nose bleeds a few months ago and refused to sleep alone for a few weeks (just recently). I also remember a "dream" from my childhood where strange short robed figures would take me out of my bed and float me into someplace I can't remember, then bring me back and leave me standing in the hallway, *wide awake*, screaming ;^) Seriously - If you are familiar with the abduction material and you think hard enough, you can find plenty of indications that you might have been abducted. I can think of a plenty for myself, but I don't really think it has ever happened. Lots of people have scars that they don't remember getting. Lots of 2-year-olds get nosebleeds and like to sleep on their Mom's lap and lots of people have weird dreams. Leonard -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51375 alt.alien.visitors:9864 talk.rumors:3286 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!cs.widener.edu!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!pacbell.com!tandem!zorch!phil From: phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson) Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: Organization: Where the wolf has slept by the silver stream References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> <1992Oct1.115833.15995@husc3.harvard.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:19:30 GMT Lines: 11 In article <1992Oct1.115833.15995@husc3.harvard.edu> joltes@husc10.harvard.edu (Richard Joltes) writes: > >"no matter how thin you slice it, it's *still* baloney." > > --Milo Bloom, "Bloom County" That would be Harry Truman, Dick. -- |play: phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG; {ames|pyramid|vsi1}!zorch!phil | |work: (Under Construction) | Phil Gustafson | | I'm the cultural elite. And I vote. | Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11939 alt.alien.visitors:9865 sci.skeptic:31855 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.univie.ac.at!chx400!sparc2!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day) Message-ID: <1992Oct1.182744.19849@ntb.ch> Keywords: Heaven Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <1992Sep30.132125.8199@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:27:44 GMT Lines: 64 Rajagopalan writes: >you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently... >"Heaven" is the presence of God.. which provokes Tom into saying: >Man, I'll have to bite on this one. >A cute story to be sure, but how do you know this? Well, when it comes to this kind of question, I can't resist biting either, as I've got a copy of the book with all the answers to this kind of question. YES. It's called "A Course In Miracles". With "Heaven", we have to define our terms. There does seem to be a state ("level") like John mentioned, where you're in a wonderful "country", and everybody is happy and loving. I heard this from a Swiss lady who was in a coma for several weeks, and she experienced exactly this (I quote John): >...a wonderful place, a lot like Earth, but with perfect weather. >There are hills and mountains, meadows and gardens, lakes and >oceans, and you can live wherever you want. Everyone loves one >another and there is harmony everywhere. happiness is eternal.. >It is the happiest moment of your life expanded for ever and ever. I do not believe, however, that this is Heaven. Of course, it sounds to be a very nice place, but the Swiss lady said that people could go to lectures if they wanted, or join learning groups. This leads me to believe that the state described was just a higher plane. The little girl's message: >God loves us all and we will all be in Heaven with Him sooner or later is what Jesus and other people have been trying to tell us for centuries. Reincarnation (acknowledged nowadays by very many people) explains why not everyone gets to stay in this "wonderful country", although it seems that not everyone has to come back as far down as Earth. You do, of course, normally need a lot of lives on an earthly plane before you can stay at a higher level. (This means that *all* of us here still haven't learnt!) When we finally do get back to Heaven (all of us), then nobody will have to leave home any more. Actually, we haven't left, we just *think* we have! Of course, nobody can *prove* anything like this, but you just have a look at the above-mentioned tome, and ask yourself if anybody on Earth would be capable of writing something as beautiful as this. (It was channelled.) It was only after they had published it in prose form that they realised that a lot of it is in blank verse. Happy reading Although I quote Raja, I mean it: >May the God of peace visit you all and abide in your hearts forever. Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9866 alt.astrology:2485 alt.consciousness:549 alt.conspiracy:18604 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2082 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.astrology,alt.consciousness,alt.conspiracy,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!teal.csn.org!et From: et@teal.csn.org (Eric H. Taylor) Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message Message-ID: Followup-To: et@et.com Summary: ET's closet encounters are personal stuff... Keywords: ET experiences Sender: ET (Eric H. Taylor) Nntp-Posting-Host: teal.csn.org Organization: Eric Taylor and Associates, Inc. References: Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:11:49 GMT Expires: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 06:00:00 GMT Lines: 17 In article davidj@wrs.com (David Jones) writes: >[...] > Saturday, October 10, 1992 10:00am to 9:30pm > Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley > At Gayley Road across from the Greek Theater >[...] >A special multi-media presentation of ET close encounter experiences will also >be presented. >[...] Hey, she wasn't supposed to show that video to anyone else! I want it back!!! Eric. -- ET: Eric H. Taylor. Or, put an "ordinary" between "extra" and "terrestrial" and that's me. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!tinkerbell!kathieg From: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM (Good good good good vibrations) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Auras Message-ID: <1aflk8INNj37@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Date: 1 Oct 92 20:04:24 GMT Reply-To: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com RA, As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras. If this is a figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one. Kathie G. ;.) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495 From: cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Christopher James Rogers) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct1.201304.17174@tamsun.tamu.edu> Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:13:04 GMT Lines: 52 In article <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: >In article <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >> I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much >> to see what people on the net think of his views. > > [...] > > I'd like to confine my comments to the effect of OFFICIAL >confirmation of aliens on the scientific community. Scientists would >be demoralized to a devastating degree. > Let's say you are a scientific demigod at Stanford. You've spent >your best years working 70 hours a week to become the expert in, say, >high temperature superconductors. You're on national boards and >committees, you have lucrative consulting arrangements with major >corporations, maybe your own company with stock holdings. You bought >a vacation home on Maui two years ago. You're talking to Clinton >staffers about FY94 "investment" in a National Superconduction >Research Center, of which you will be the director. In short, you're >fat and happy. > Now George Bush, who will do anything to win the election, holds a >national press conference and lays it all out. The ultimate October >surprise. Aliens are real. They are a million years ahead of us in >science. They are willing to share their knowledge with us. He shows >photos, video tapes, trots out an NSA spook to field questions. And >of course he takes credit for reaching the secret diplomatic agreement >with the Aliens. > How is our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this? For >him it is a personal CATASTROPHE! Yes, he would like to learn the >secrets of the universe, but his life is in ruins. Superconduction >theory is now irrelevant, childlike. His scientific and financial >position has evaporated. The next day in a graduate seminar, his >students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when >it is now all useless drivel. And they're right. > The universities, industrial research labs, DARPA, and the National >Science Foundation people are totally demoralized, in chaos. Everyone >has to go back to kindergarten. Fine if you are six years old, >catastrophic if you are 40 or 50, like everyone in the scientific >power structure. > There is some substance behind that theory, but it only applies to those scientists that are not willing to accept. If our scientists were faced with the sudden existance of aliens who (foolishly) wish to share their knowledge with us, then they would logically go from being Scientists to being the representatives of Earth. After all, someone has to introduce the info to our society. I don't think things would be as severe as going back to Kindergarten either. If the info were introduced properly, then people could learn it much like they learn about anything else newly discovered or designed in our world. Later! C J Rogers Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11940 alt.alien.visitors:9869 sci.skeptic:31859 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Oct1.181536.6920@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 1 Oct 92 18:15:36 GMT References: <66888@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Oct1.131518.28896@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 17 In article <1992Oct1.131518.28896@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu writes: [...] >I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras. > >Have fun! =-Kathy-> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu Kathy - no, Kirlean photography takes pictures of EM fields. RA rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu -------------------------- The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and ask for one. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: AAV Archives Message-ID: <1992Oct1.203615.3352@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:36:15 GMT Lines: 13 Occasionally I have seen requests for information on past articles in alt.alien.visitors. If you desire something, I have the entire newsgroup archive back to July 13, 1992. I access it frequently. I have no way to ftp it to another system for public access but would be glad to email portions of it upon request. The responses are not quaranteed to be correct or complete. You can email me at gvb@acd4.acd.com and I will do my best. Gregg -- This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11943 alt.alien.visitors:9871 sci.skeptic:31864 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!eslvcr!ted From: ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell) Subject: Kirlian Photography (was: July 4, 1992 - Global etc) Message-ID: <1992Oct1.201956.15415@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca> Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Summary: A measure of electrical conductivity patterns. Organization: Entropy Limited, Vancouver Canada References: <66888@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Oct1.131518.28896@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 20:19:56 GMT Lines: 36 In article <1992Oct1.131518.28896@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu writes: >In article <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>, > rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) writes... >> >>I've read of some controlled experiments regarding auras, and they >>always seem to indicate that auras are a figment of the perceiver's >>imagination, and have no objective reality. Do you have any evidence >>to the contrary? > >I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras. The evidence suggests that Kirlian photography gives pictures of electrical discharges, whose shapes depend on patterns of electrical conductivity in the objects being used. For example, if you place a leaf in the apparatus and make a picture, you'll get something in the shape of a leaf with a fringe around the outside (since the discharge from the electric field being applied extends somewhat beyond the boundaries of the leaf). If you now tear off part of the leaf, and leave the remainder in its same position in the apparatus, you will now get a picture in which the "missing" part of the leaf still appears, albeit more faintly than before, _provided_ that you don't thoroughly clean the apparatus in between, removing residue left by the whole leaf at the end of the first run. Some people attach a mystical significance to this. Reference: There's a chapter on Kirlian photography in "Science and the Paranormal", Barry Singer and George Abell, eds. The book's at home, so if anyone needs to know things like ISBN, publisher, etc, please email me. Anyone following this thread from alt.alien.visitors, please note that I've omitted that group from the Followup-To: -- I don't think Mr Kirlian was an alien. :-) -- ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!eslvcr!ted (Ted Powell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: Re: nuts Message-ID: <1OCT199214200877@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 21:20:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center Distribution: usa References: <1992Sep27.181500.1@acad3.alaska.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 23 In article , pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) writes... >In article <1992Sep27.181500.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsgah@acad3.alaska.edu writes: >>I saw an alien once when I was on a midnight stroll down to Farmers loop road >>from my house. There was a bright light in the sky and before I knew it there >>I was on an operating table having my nuts cut off, I was really scared but >>when the operation was over I felt very good about myself. >> >> > >was this the night of the Rocky Mountain Oysters special at the >Farmers Loop Restaurant? > >-- >-- Pat Monardo >-- pjm@cshl.org Are you singing suprano now too??? ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51391 alt.alien.visitors:9873 talk.rumors:3287 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!wang!news From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: <2635@israel.nysernet.org> Date: 1 Oct 92 11:46:14 GMT References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> Sender: news@wang.com Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs Lines: 13 In <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> morgan@sitka.triumf.ca (Morgan Burke) writes: ETERNAL'S Original Measures contain Total Knowledge... Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort. Any ideas or suggestions as to its real meaning? It means "send money". -- /|/-\/-\ In real life, the Vice President chastises Murphey Brown |__/__/_/ for her morals. Bill Clinton plays the sax on "Arsenio |warren@ Hall." Though "Batman Returns" is fiction, it's not too / nysernet.org much stranger than truth - Caryn James, The New York Times Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9874 sci.skeptic:31873 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!ames!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct1.214102.11828@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Oct1.164755.3331@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:41:02 GMT Lines: 36 mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: >In article <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes: >|> Well, mars observer has been launched. barring untoward circumstances, it >|> should be in position and taking pictures in 11 months or so. with cameras >|> of 3 meter resolution, the 'Face on Mars' question should be settled (one >|> way or another) within the next couple of years. >|> >|> Some months ago, someone here gave me odds that the various formations there >|> were not artificial in nature. In other words, we have a bet going wherein >|> if the Cydonia formations are *not* artificial, I pay him a certain amount >|> of money, and if they *are* artificial, he pays me a certain (larger) amount >|> of money. Judgement (in this case) is to be by mr. tim maroney, of san >|> francisco (maroney@toad.com). >Do I have to bet to find out how you are going to decide this question? >Every legitimate geologists and planetary scientist I know of has said they >are natural rock formations. Enthusiasts say otherwise. The evidence >is just a pattern of pixels. >How will you use the new evidence? Unless there are migs or radio >dishes or something, just exactly what could be on the photo that >would be defined as evidence of 'artificial'? And what could be on >the photo that COULDN'T look artificial to a dedicated wonder-monger? >And whose opinion will decide? well, I rather imagine a 3 meter resolution photo of cydonia will show rather convlusively whether or not these formations are artificial or not. 3 meter resolution photos of the pyramids, macchu picchu, stonehenge, etc are readily differentiated from 3 meter resolution photos of rock formations. in matters of the bet, though, the appointed judge (in at least one case tim maroney) will decide. josh Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!caen!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewsm!cbnewsl!att-out!pacbell.com!rtech!ingres!kevinq From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Subject: Re: Auras Message-ID: <1992Oct2.003813.27535@pony.Ingres.COM> Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501 References: <1aflk8INNj37@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Date: 2 Oct 92 00:38:13 GMT Lines: 26 In article <1aflk8INNj37@male.EBay.Sun.COM> kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM writes: >RA, > >As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras. If this is a >figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one. > >Kathie G. ;.) Heck, Kathie, when I was a 'kid', I saw all sorts of colors, too. On acid, that is. 'twas glorius to grow up in California! kbq -- Kevin Quinn | kevinq@ingres.com | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com My opinions are my own. Should you think otherwise, think again. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations Message-ID: <1992Oct1.213922.3737@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Sep28.121546.22017@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:39:22 GMT Lines: 45 In article <1992Sep28.121546.22017@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> plw@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (White) writes: >Now that Vallee's book Revelations has come out in paperback, I >picked it up. Thank God. > >Reading the book has provided a psychological attenuator for >much of the Cooper/Lear/UMMO/Pleidian/fill in your own fringe group >noise that has threatened to drown any interest I may have had in >the UFO phenomenon. > >Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take >one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their >participants. Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people >that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not >have. Then he asks the hard questions. > >For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out >the garbage?" "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites >picked any traces of this base?" etc. > >Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason >for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of >Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges. However, the >reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation >campaign cannot be firmly grasped. > >So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your >kill file is getting larger and larger. > >======================================== >Paul White >plw@ray.com >My opinions are not those of Raytheon >======================================== Thanx for the tip on the book. I just picked it up yesterday and read a small number of pages. Looks good. I will hit is as soon as I finish Secret Life by Jacobs. He gives a very ineresting and detailed history of UFO happenings in the USA. Being a history prof, I think he did a good turn for the readers of Secret Life. Basically, he pulls the BS out and lays it on the table first thing. Gregg. -- This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9877 sci.skeptic:31884 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!udel!darwin.sura.net!convex!schumach From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:16:56 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 7 You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing, because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...) Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51405 alt.alien.visitors:9878 talk.rumors:3288 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!convex!schumach From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:25:37 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 1 It's a New Age/druggie pastiche of Tom Waits' classic "Step Right Up". Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: Date: 2 Oct 92 01:43:30 GMT References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 65 crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu (Lou Crago) writes: This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. ... Marchetti resigned from the Agency in 1969. He had worked in the CIA for fourteen years prior, as an expert in Soviet military and antiballistic missle systems, and in 1966 moved to the office of the director. He is most known for co-authoring "The CIA and the cult of intelligence" (1975) with John D. Marks. Authoring the book put him decidedly on the 'outs' with the Agency. Just so you know... (and know that Marchetti's information was at least 10 years old in 1979.) The passage you quote appears in Timothy Good's "Above Top Secret" (page 365), where it is described as "Machetti's theory"; that is, that Marchetti believes this to be true knowing what he knows about how the agency operates, and what documents that have been released by FOIA suits. (Clearly, Marchetti knows a lot about the agency, but he doesn't have the evidence implied by the quote you gave.) It would be nice to be able to read the entire original article -- do you have it? What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs and Visitors are real? ... probably. (This topic has been discussed before on this group.) It depends on what a supposed alien race said when they contacted us. For instance, if they directly challenged major religious views (e.g. "Jesus was an Alien", "Mohammed did not ascend to heaven", etc.) then the chaos could be considerable. If they did not, then the chaos could be similar to what we've seen when higher-tech cultures interact with lower-tech ones without restrictions: major social upheavals as the lower-tech culture tried to assimiliate new technologies without a proper "ramp-up" (which almost certainly would severely test economic systems, as the scarcities that drive economies become plentiful, and technologies are taken on without a proper moral background -- imagine street-gangs with particle-beam weapons....) I doubt that there would be a lot of "human-kind is not top dog" kind of upheavals; various races have been told they are inferior in human history (Indians, American Indians, Blacks, Irish, Jews, etc., etc.), and have survived. Technological upheaval (that of a sudden whisking-away of technological barriers by a 'great leap forward' in what is known) would also probably occur, but would probably be replaced with new technological barriers to be explored, after a learning period (that is, after a period of uncertainty, we would all find something *else* to do. For instance, the 'need' for TV shows would not disappear, regardless of what the TV looked like.) There's also political considerations (and I'm not talking about elections). Consider: why, typically, do explorers explore? For some form of gain. Sometimes the "gain" is not particularly threatening to those "found", sometimes it is. Until widespread contact is actually made, its something of a crapshoot as to who wants what. Charles PS - sources: "The CIA and American Democracy", Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones, Yale University Press, 1989; "Above Top Secret", Timothy Good, Quill William Murrow, 1988. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: Date: 2 Oct 92 02:07:22 GMT References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> <10499@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 37 rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) writes: There's always the "we don't need no stinking aliens - we'll do it ourselves" angle. ...this is counter-intuitive. No one needs to know the underlying principles of something before it is used. Does the biochemist know the guts of VLSI design (or anything at all about how computers work) to use it in his/her work? Do I need to know how an automobile works to drive one? Certainly not -- all I need to know is I turn this key, put this level here, accellerator/brake, steering wheel, and I'm off. If a higher-technology culture handed us neat stuff, we'd take it and use it, and then learn its guts (if for no other reason, so we could make 'em smaller and cheaper, and sell 'em back to the aliens.) I'd expect most scientists would jump at the opportunity to study alien technology, even if it makes their research obselete. ... absolutely right. Oh yes, and: vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: The next day in a graduate seminar, his students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when it is now all useless drivel. And they're right. Nope, they're wrong. Anyone with a brain (and I'll grant you, this does not necessarily include all graduate students) would see that the principles of any advanced technology would have to be learned *after* learning the "lower level" stuff. (In fact, students pronounce what they're taught "useless drivel" all the time. We call the "dropouts". Typically, they are not as well rewarded by society as those that learn the drivel.) Charles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11947 alt.alien.visitors:9881 sci.skeptic:31886 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <67021@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 19:26:49 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66929@cup.portal.com> <66979@cup.portal.com> Lines: 8 Dear Folks: Well it seems that someone in Washington got blasted out of bed by a person that looked like me and said he was me. Maybe he was me. This person at 11:19 tuesday the 29th of Sept. was sitting around doing a little thinking when my presence came around him for about 15 minutes. He then tried to contact me and nearly got blown out of bed. Sorry about that. There must have been some purpose for it but the reason excapes me. John Winston Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11948 alt.alien.visitors:9882 sci.skeptic:31887 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day) Keywords: Heaven Message-ID: <1992Oct2.015148.10036@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 2 Oct 92 01:51:48 GMT References: <1992Sep30.132125.8199@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> <1992Oct1.182744.19849@ntb.ch> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: dec3100c.ccs.northeastern.edu In article <1992Oct1.182744.19849@ntb.ch> milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: [...] >Reincarnation (acknowledged nowadays by very many people) Paul - which people acknowledge this, and do they have any scientific basis for doing so? RA rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu -------------------------- The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and ask for one. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!nwnexus!seanews!eskimo!nanook From: nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct2.042735.14161@eskimo.celestial.com> Summary: UFO's and the collapse of civilization... Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <- References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04:27:35 GMT Lines: 34 In article <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: > WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs > and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some > discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. My belief is that they >ARE< real, thus if it were "established", it would to me, only be official recognition. I don't really think I am going completely ape now, I doubt official recognition would change that much. I am concerned about where this is all going to lead. On earth, anytime a more technologically advanced civilization has met a less technologically advanced civilization, it has not been good for the less technologically advanced civilization. Will the extra-terrestrials have morals as we know them? I tend to think they would have destroyed themselves before they reached a state of technological advancement sufficient for inter-stellar travel if they had none. So what will it mean for our "civilization" (and I use the term loosely)? Some things I would expect to come of it.. I would think that it would give people a more "global" view of our planet and perhaps then we could start cooperating to preserve it and stop killing each other. I suspect the presence of aliens on this planet would pose some delimas for religious fanatics and with any luck they would find themselves less in a position of power. I also hope that along with technological advancement, alien visitors might posses some degree of cultural advancement, appreciate art, etc, and that we might be able to mutually exchange forms of art and views and history. I dunno, I think it would be interesting, I don't think it would result in the total destruction of civilization as we know it though no doubt it will upset some folks belief systems. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9884 sci.skeptic:31895 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!obrien From: obrien@netcom.com (Robert O'Brien) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct2.092744.26671@netcom.com> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:27:44 GMT Lines: 34 In article schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes: >You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural >against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the >proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to >any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on >public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect >the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing, >because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...) I'd like a 'piece of this action' as well. Same terms. I'm willing to part with $100 if I can be convinced it was configured by some form of intelligence (~= a beehive would be sufficient) So long as I can expect $1 if you, Josh, can be convinced it is some combination of natural terrain features, shadow, and camera angle. From your postings, I doubt you are quite the typical open-minded skeptic, but that just means I'm accepting what I calculate to be about 100000:1 odds. Good enough in my opinion. Bob O'Brien No .sig, but if I had one, it *might* say: "I'm almost *absolutely* convinced space is so vast that there *must* be (other) intelligent life out there somewhere. I'm *just as* convinced that space is so vast that we'll not only never make contact, but never find even the flimsiest of trace" then again, it *might* say: "Intelligent life in the universe? Not anywhere *I've* seen!" ----------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9885 sci.skeptic:31896 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!jcatesii From: jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu (James Cates III) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct2.103811.6047@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the othe Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural >against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the >proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to >any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on >public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect >the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing, >because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...) What if it's found to be artificial, but with a keen, holographic label on it proclaiming it to be constructed entirely of all-natural ingredients? How about I get the whole pot then? -------- ----- / jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu / / YMURGY software jim.cates@p1.f6.n3626.z1.fidonet.org / / ____ ________===========================)---* Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah From: dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct2.120609.29471@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi Organization: VTT References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Oct2.042735.14161@eskimo.celestial.com> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:06:09 GMT Lines: 20 In article <1992Oct2.042735.14161@eskimo.celestial.com> nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes: >In article <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >> WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs >> and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some >> discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. [....] > > I dunno, I think it would be interesting, I don't think it would result >in the total destruction of civilization as we know it though no doubt it will >upset some folks belief systems. > \\\\\\ Anyway, we find out what are their religious beliefs, and this would surely have some effect on us. (Who knows what they believe? They may not be atheists after all. I recall that Augustine speculated that the visible starry heavens were inhabited by angelic beings. (in his long book, _The City of God_, as I recall reading long ago). Maybe they are on better terms with God (?). Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11952 alt.alien.visitors:9887 sci.skeptic:31900 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!caen!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!psl.wisc.edu!gorski From: gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day) Keywords: Heaven Message-ID: <1992Oct2.134039.4481@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Date: 2 Oct 92 13:40:39 GMT References: <1992Sep30.132125.8199@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> <1992Oct1.182744.19849@ntb.ch> Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin Lines: 48 In article <1992Oct1.182744.19849@ntb.ch> milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: > > >Rajagopalan writes: > > >you don't get to stay in Heaven permanently... > >"Heaven" is the presence of God.. > >which provokes Tom into saying: > > >Man, I'll have to bite on this one. > > >A cute story to be sure, but how do you know this? > >Well, when it comes to this kind of question, I can't resist biting either, >as I've got a copy of the book with all the answers to this kind of question. >YES. It's called "A Course In Miracles". I find this very interesting! I too have a copy of ACIM (although it's currently loaned out to the Parish Priest), and the reading I get off of it, is that the only *answer* in the course goes something like "the only answer lies within." Not really an answer, just a vague pointer of sorts. Hmmmm...since you have your copy nearby, maybe you'd be willing to try something for me: Somewhere in the workbook, in the first two-dozen lessons or so, is a lesson which goes something like, "I do not know what anything means." I would be very interested to hear what happens if you pick up and momentarily do this lesson while you're reading the text, especially when you're reading those sections which seem to give the exact answers you have in mind above. Interested? :-) As for the rest of your posting about heaven and reincarnation, etc., it sounds very wonderful, but from where does it come and what does it mean? Peace :-) >Paul Milsom >milsom@ntb.ch >Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland --Tom G. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11954 alt.alien.visitors:9888 sci.skeptic:31901 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!chx400!sparc2!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day) Message-ID: <1992Oct2.141636.12979@ntb.ch> Keywords: Heaven Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <1992Oct2.015148.10036@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:16:36 GMT Lines: 57 Free Radical (RA) asks about reincarnation: > Paul - which people acknowledge this, and do they have any > scientific basis for doing so? The people I was referring to are the ones who are what I would have to call "spiritual" in the western world. There are others, non-spiritual, here too. There are also apparently several hundreds of millions of believers in reincarnation in places like India, Tibet, Japan and other countries (Hindus, Buddhists, Jains). Some rogue Christian churches also still accept this doctrine, and indeed it was accepted Christian belief until about the 5th Century, when it was edited from the bible after the decision of a Council. (They missed two bits.) > do they have any scientific basis? Not that I know of. Is there any for ETs? I have personally spoken to several people who have had regression into past lives. They were all very credible. Not sensational at all. My nearest experience was as follows: I met a lady about three years ago who seemed *incredibly* familiar although I knew I had never met her before. It really was a strange feeling, especially as I felt I was somehow regarding her as much younger than she was (she was actually about 35, but "felt" like about 16, I can't describe it any better). Being rather careful, I didn't want to "impose" upon her by saying things like "Don't I know you from somewhere..", (and anyway, I'm very happily married!) I was wondering if I should try to talk to her when she came up to *me* and said she felt just like I've described above. I met her again in Findhorn about a year ago. She'd just returned from the USA and said she'd done a regression there, and I had been her father in a past life. She told me all the details. But as soon as she said I had been her father, I recognised that funny feeling that I'd had - the father feeling. Of course this may all be considered circumstantial, but (as they say) it's different when it happens to you. I personally don't think that regression per se helps much in one's spiritual development, but it does seem to be an interesting occupation for some people. I believe there's a wealth of literature on it. By the way, reincarnation is often associated with the idea of karma. I do not hold with this teaching. Karma is a typical earthly explanation for reincarnation, but it carries with it all the hangups of the ego. Karma is like hell. Power over people (or here, souls). Don't believe it. We had a discussion a few weeks ago in the group as to whether aliens have souls. Also in one abduction book, some of the abductees seemed to have been abducted in a kind of out of body experience. I think W. Strieber had this experience too. I have digressed. In fact, this letter has become so long, I have decided to put it on the net - hope you don't mind. Cheers, Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!nowhere!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard From: jlpicard@austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dreams of encounters... Message-ID: <1992Oct1.213113.1556@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Date: 1 Oct 92 21:31:13 GMT References: <1992Sep30.212536.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> Sender: news@awdprime.austin.ibm.com (USENET News) Reply-To: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com Organization: IBM Object Technology Products Lines: 42 Originator: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: > i can understand the fear that has been discussed...i have remembered two > dreams involving aliens and i don't think i've EVER been as scared as in those > dreams... > anyone else have some information on this? nsabados@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Nick Sabadosh) writes: > ...I also had an odd dream, about a > week ago. [details omitted] > Anyway, I was wide awake at this point, but experienced that kind of paralysis > you get when you wake right from REM sleep. I couldn't move, but my eyes were > open. Needless to say, this added to my uneasiness with the situation. > > I tried to call to my wife, simply to ask her to roll me over so my leg would > stop tingling...but all that came out was a muffled groan. I tried a few more > times, and eventually she heard me and shook me. She said she thought I was >talking in my sleep, and didn't know if it was good or bad and whether she > should wake me up. The paralysis left me then, and my leg felt better. These incidents sound like they might be manifestations of a common (and harmless) sleep disorder that is called (surprise!) Sleep Paralysis (also known as "Night Terrors"). The intense feelings of fear experienced by jtulli are a common "byproduct" of an attack (as are visual, audio, and/or tactile hallucinations). I'm prone to Sleep Paralysis myself, and the experience Nick describes of being unable to call out to his wife is familiar to me (well, I wasn't trying to call _his_ wife, but you get the idea :-). Craig -- -- "You can expect virtually Craig Becker, Object Technology Products -- -- anything from a people who had Internet: craigb@ot.austin.ibm.com -- -- nuclear weapons in the early IBM TR: craigb@woofer.austin.ibm.com -- -- seventeenth century." VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 -- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!ed.ac.uk!Earth From: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Vote - final results Keywords: vote, spokesman, Earth, results Message-ID: Date: 2 Oct 92 15:06:43 GMT Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Reply-To: Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 193 This is the final result of the vote. Some votes were for people other than the nominees: I left everything in. PLEASE stop sending votes now. They will be discarded because of the timestamp, so don't waste your time (and cpu time on my mailserver :-) 40 Kibo 11 Geoff Miller, American 9 Cicciolina 9 lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu 8 Dalai Lama 3 Carl Sagan 3 Gene Spafford 3 James Burke 3 Mary Shafer 3 Rick Gordon 2 Bill Moyers 2 Idi Amin 2 Jimmy Carter 2 John Winston 2 Laurie Anderson 2 Robert Sheaffer 2 William S. Burroughs 1 Adolf Hitler 1 BIFF 1 Brian Eno (I guess I should count as 2 votes for 1 Brian Eno and Peter Gabriel Brian Eno... not that it makes difference) 1 Captain Kangaroo 1 Cindy Crawford 1 Cyrus Vance 1 Dan Quayle 1 Frank Sinatra 1 Harpo Marx. 1 Hunter S. Thompson 1 Jean Luc Picard 1 Johnny Carson 1 Margaret Thatcher 1 Me (whoever that is: one of the messages was "Vote: Me") 1 Mr. Rogers 1 Ned Ivanov 1 P. W. Fuzzface 1 Richard Nixon 1 Rod Swift 1 Serge Thill 1 Stephanie L., Stevie Nicks 1 Stephen Hawking 1 Steven Spielberg and George Lucas 1 Timothy Leary 1 Umberto Eco A few votes had a timestamp before Monday 00:00GMT, and I sent a message to the senders to warn them; other votes had a timestamp after Wednesday 00:00GMT, and had to be discarded. I haven't warned the senders yet.. My program didn't do it automatically and I am a bit busy right now, perhaps I'll do it during the week-end. Below is the list of people who voted (If your address does not appear precisely as you know it, remember that this is how my machine sees them). The list is in alphabetic order of the username. And, no, I don't think I am allowed to say who voted for whom. 71050W@d1.dartmouth.edu 76507.3437@compuserve.com a1432@mindlink.bc.ca AARONS@earlham.earn ALEXA@county.lmt.mn.org alex@miles.vmars.tuwien.ac.at andy@research.canon.oz.au asm332@cix.clink.co.uk AutoGeoff@ed.ac.uk awatson@auspex.com axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au baldwin@carina.unm.edu BATTIN@venus.iucf.indiana.edu BAUGE@sbchm1.chem.sunysb.edu bberbeni@nyx.cs.du.edu bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu Blair.Haworth@lambada.oit.unc.edu Brian.Scearce@eng.sun.com bryan@wugate.wustl.edu bur@ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov bv730@cleveland.freenet.edu bv789@cleveland.freenet.edu CCDARG@dct.ac.uk charless@sco.com Claudio.Terrorist@ed.ac.uk cocking@csugrad.cs.vt.edu Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca COMPLIT_MAN@cubldr.colorado.edu corleyj@gas.uug.arizona.edu CRAGO_L@gold.colorado.edu crm211b@bnr.ca csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu CTARRIO@enh.nist.gov curtis@snake.cs.berkeley.edu cuz@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu cziwstb@pluto.ulcc.ac.uk dah@tko.vtt.fi dan@flare.astro.uu.se daniel@nucnx2.chem.sunysb.edu daniel@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au darvs00@dmi.usherb.ca davet@wv.mentorg.com dmoskowi@jarthur.claremont.edu dsm40@mcode.amdahl.com durway@dg-rtp.dg.com ear@wpi.wpi.edu ediger@metamatic ERDMANS@alf.cs.hh.ab.com etj90@ecs.soton.ac.uk fenner@cs.psu.edu fis@h8005.demon.co.uk frazerp@syma.susx.ac.uk friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu g92n3228@hippo.ru.ac.za Geoff.Miller@corp.sun.com gisle@ifi.uio.no goodridg@husc.harvard.edu gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu greens@mentor.cc.purdue.edu grenade@sobeco.com gsc@coombs.anu.edu.au hal@sgml.hq.ileaf.com HARVEY@indyvax.iupui.edu henken@ocf.berkeley.edu ingram@cs.duke.edu ingram@samba.oit.unc.edu irsman@iastate.edu jcatesii@nyx.cs.du.edu jf41+@andrew.cmu.edu j.guy@trl.oz.au JIM@apsicc.aps.edu jlavi@cs.joensuu.fi jmp@jaco.frame.com jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu jondo@ucscb.ucsc.edu joseph@valis.biocad.com jrsmith@gnu.ai.mit.edu jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu karttu@mdata.fi Kathie.Greenslade@ebay.sun.com kauffman@slab.unt.edu ked01@juts.ccc.amdahl.com Kibo@world.std.com kilroy@acme.gen.nz klm@mscg.com ldoering@engin.umich.edu lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu madmike@netcom.com manson@pattyr.acs.ohio-state.edu Margaret.Haworth@lambada.oit.unc.edu mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu mc@vicorp.com megazone@wpi.wpi.edu mgfrank@avernus.com milsom@ntb.ch mirala@katk.helsinki.fi mpython@gnu.ai.mit.edu mute@wpi.wpi.edu mvbth@mvgpk.att.com nat@netcom.com no104956@cc.tut.fi notbiff@gnu.ai.mit.edu nycteris@wpi.wpi.edu oldman@titan.ucc.umass.edu paladin@wpi.wpi.edu Patrick.Finerty@m.cc.utah.edu petonic@hal.com preacher@lopez.marquette.mi.us quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz raj@zycad.com rhall@mcs.kent.edu rickg@netcom.com rmb@cblph.att.com rogue@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu rperkins@as.arizona.edu RSWIFTRW@cc.curtin.edu.au sbp@u.washington.edu serget@cogs.susx.ac.uk sgamble@crc.ac.uk spaf@cs.purdue.edu spani@mprgate.mpr.ca sramming@athena.mit.edu steveh@h8136.demon.co.uk streeter@cs.unca.edu syngen@dir.ulcc.ac.uk terrylee@wpi.wpi.edu tracker@wpi.wpi.edu ubjta56@ucl.ac.uk uslave@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu WALKERJO@cgsvax.claremont.edu z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu zukowsky@wpi.wpi.edu Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51442 alt.alien.visitors:9891 talk.rumors:3291 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc8.harvard.edu!joltes Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: <1992Oct2.115806.16015@husc3.harvard.edu> From: joltes@husc8.harvard.edu (Richard Joltes) Date: 2 Oct 92 11:58:06 EDT References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> <1992Oct1.115833.15995@husc3.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Science Center Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu Lines: 27 phil@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Phil Gustafson) writes: >[I wrote] >> >>"no matter how thin you slice it, it's *still* baloney." >> >> --Milo Bloom, "Bloom County" > >That would be Harry Truman, Dick. It may be a Truman quote, but Berke stole it for the "Bloom County" strip--it was the series when a fundamentalist "researcher" approached Milo with his evidence that Satanic messages could be heard in reversed recordings of rock records. One of his transcribings read: "Devil bunnies...I snort the nose, Lucifer...banana...banana" Like I said... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dick "or something like that..." Joltes joltes@husc.harvard.edu Hardware & Networking Manager, Computer Services joltes@husc.bitnet Harvard University Science Center "Mind you, not as bad as the night Archie Pettigrew ate some sheep's testicles for a bet...God, that bloody sheep kicked him..." Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11955 alt.alien.visitors:9892 sci.skeptic:31905 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <67060@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 09:15:19 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 51 Subject: The Aura. I must say that the questions that have been coming in lately have been very impressive. Please let me share with you what little I have found out about the aura. It seems that the first thing that I did along these lines was to contact a person down in San Diego, Calif. who claimed that he could heal a person by the use of a picture. To do this a person was to get in front of a perfectly white surface (like a garage door) and take their own picture with them against the door while the sun was shining. This person is now dead due to natural causes but he said that you were to take the negative of this color picture and to put it in your wallet and send the positive of this picture to him. He would look at the picture and take a look at the aura. While looking at your picture he would see the aura and determine what colors would be helpful to put into your aura. Your picture was then put in a small box with lights of one color at a time. He would radiate your picture with a particular color for a certain number of hours and the negative inside your billfold would allow the frequency to zero in on you. I did this with myself and four sons. I don't know how effective this was because we were all pretty healthy already but I did notice that the aura did show up as a different color in each of us. One of my sons who was having a problem in relating to life turned out to have a very murky, dirty aura. It looked like someone had smeared some dirt on the garage. The next thing that happened in my investigation of the the aura is that I went to a psychic fair in Sunnyvale, Calif. At this place they had a person who only used the name Guy taking pictures of people with a aura camera. This was only a poloroid camera that was used with some sort of frequency generator. The generator would send out a frequency that would beat with the color freq. of your aura producing another frequency that could be picked up by the camera but not seen by you yourself. I asked Guy where he had obtained the camera and he gave me some story about buying it off a person from Russia and the person from Russia not coming back to America again. I felt he was not wanting to talk about it and wanted to just get rid of me the best way he could. Several year later I went to a UFO convention (where people who are interested in the study of UFOs come together) in Phenoix, Ariz. At that place there was a person using an improved camera set up who claimed that he had rented the system from a person called Guy. He gave me Guy's address, I contacted Guy again and did an interview with him. At that time he had several ways to see the aura. The best of these was to put a person in front of some sort of screen that looked like a screen for viewing color slides. Next a regular incadesent light was turned on beside the person. A computer system was set up which operated a device that looked like a color generator. This was all turned on while the person being viewed placed each hand on electrodes of some sort. So in this case you could see the aura with your regualar eyesight on the screen behind the person. You could also see your own aura on a seperate T.V. viewer that was part of the system if you were being viewed. We observed and video taped a young lady and the response of her aura as she thought about things that were funny and things that were sexy and they did come out in different colors immediately. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11956 alt.alien.visitors:9893 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <67061@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 09:17:34 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <64264@cup.portal.com> Lines: 61 1>+L Subject: Portal. Part 6. This is used when a person sees that he is doing something wrong and changes his way of living. With the use of this portal machine a person could do this same thing. I don't know who did it in this case of the story in the bible, it may have just been God doing it but this portal machine could be how it was accomplished. Next of all during World War 2 (during the approximated time that these people were checking out Rainbow City) there was a thing that was happening throughout the world. Little signs were being put on everyting that looked like a man's face looking over a fence and under it the words were placed "Kilroy Was Here". These drawings were placed everywhere giving you the impression that a person named Kilroy had been there and had left this painting. After a while other people saw the humor in it and started drawing the pictures in different places themselves. I'm just saying that it could have been this person by the name of Kilroy using this portal machine that got it going. Some of these drawings would be put in places that it would be very hard for a person to paint them, like up the side of a hill or other unaccessible spots. One of the more technical things that they did back durintg this investigation was to build a space craft. They powered it with hydrogen. I don't want to boar you people that are not technically inclined but they did it by using water which consists of hydrogen and oxygen, using a process called hydrolization which seperates hydrogen from water. They used a high voltage like is produced by a Tesla Coil and produced hydrogen. You probubly know that hydrogen is a very explosive gas and now we have cars modified so we can run them on hydrogen Many of our scientist now think that a person needs so much energy to extract the hydrogen that you could never do the process on a car economically but these people claimed to have done it in that area. That would be a good trick to run a car or airplane on water. Don't laugh too hard because there are a few scientist and inventers who say they can or will be able to do this very soon. So this is another source of UFOs. If your not keeping track let's see how many sources we've found for UFOs; 1. Mount Shasta. 2. Venus. 3. Rainbow City and 4. Spiritual beings. Some space people from the Pleiades were once asked how many place they figured UFOs came from and they said that they knew of 108 different civilizations that have visited the Earth. In the past I sent this information to a young man by the name of David Dorycott in San Antonio, Texas. David is a regular young man now and in the past he has taken many rides on a space craft with some people from Legart in the constellation Lystra. These people had a space pilot by the name of Jarton who read this information about Rainbow City and took the information back to his home planet. They did a story on their communication system like our TV system and porjected it to 3 of their planets each of which had 3 billion people. So I guess you would call that reaching out and touching someone. End Part 6. John Winstonhis very soon. So this is another source of UFOL wZ 22@8 "e8ZFMu8],M9z%, xax0xxQx3 x@ xN xb|`Eh "e8ZFMu8],M9z%, 0Roman 10cpi8 different civilizations that have visited the Earth. In the past I sent this information to a young man Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!stafford.winona.msus.edu!user Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford) Date: 2 Oct 92 11:24:49 -0600 Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> Distribution: world Organization: MSUS Nntp-Posting-Host: stafford.winona.msus.edu Lines: 8 In article <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com>, vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) wrote: > How is our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this? For > him it is a personal CATASTROPHE! Yes, he would like to learn the > secrets of the universe, but his life is in ruins. Superconduction > theory is now irrelevant, childlike. Heavens! He might have to revert to _learning_ and _teaching_ again! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495 From: cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Christopher James Rogers) Subject: Re: Auras Message-ID: <1992Oct2.160433.5103@tamsun.tamu.edu> Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station References: <1aflk8INNj37@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:04:33 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1aflk8INNj37@male.EBay.Sun.COM> kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM writes: >As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras. If this is a >figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one. > >Kathie G. ;.) Some humans (and other creatures) have the special ability to see auras. An aura is psycic energy, but not neccessarily mystical. It is a form of energy like any other. If dogs can see into higher wavelengths, then I belive it is possible to see auras. Later! C J Rogers Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!fofp From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Vote - final results Keywords: vote, spokesman, Earth, results Message-ID: <26514@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: 2 Oct 92 16:01:10 GMT References: Organization: Edinburgh University Lines: 9 Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) writes: It's a fix!!!! My vote for Gary Stollman didn't appear. What kind of conspiracy is this????? FoFP Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9897 sci.skeptic:31912 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!rdg.dec.com!uvo.dec.com!e2big.mko.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct2.155112.20362@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:49:59 GMT Lines: 44 In article <1992Oct2.092744.26671@netcom.com>, obrien@netcom.com (Robert O'Brien) writes... >In article schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes: >>You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural >>against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the >>proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to >>any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on >>public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect >>the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing, >>because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...) > > >I'd like a 'piece of this action' as well. Same terms. I'm willing >to part with $100 if I can be convinced it was configured by some form >of intelligence (~= a beehive would be sufficient) So long as I can expect >$1 if you, Josh, can be convinced it is some combination of natural terrain >features, shadow, and camera angle. From your postings, I doubt you are >quite the typical open-minded skeptic, but that just means I'm accepting >what I calculate to be about 100000:1 odds. Good enough in my opinion. > > > > Bob O'Brien > >No .sig, but if I had one, it *might* say: > >"I'm almost *absolutely* convinced space is so vast that there *must* be >(other) intelligent life out there somewhere. I'm *just as* convinced that >space is so vast that we'll not only never make contact, but never find >even the flimsiest of trace" > >then again, it *might* say: > >"Intelligent life in the universe? Not anywhere *I've* seen!" > ----------- > Can I get a piece of this too? :-) I'll go even farther... I'll bet that the proof turns out to be that there are *many* faces found.. not just one.. how's that for proof? Mary Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Vallee's Revelations Message-ID: <140397.2ACBADD9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 2 Oct 92 01:55:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Reading the book has provided a psychological attenuator for > much of the Cooper/Lear/UMMO/Pleidian/fill in your own fringe group > noise that has threatened to drown any interest I may have had in > the UFO phenomenon. > > Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take > one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their > participants. Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people > that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not > have. Then he asks the hard questions. > > For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out > the garbage?" "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites > picked any traces of this base?" etc. > > Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason > for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of > Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges. However, the > reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation > campaign cannot be firmly grasped. > > So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your > kill file is getting larger and larger. I second this, and wish to add a couple of comments. Although most people seem to react negatively to Vallee and his theories, I feel that he is one of the most intelligent researchers and thinkers in the field in a very long time, and ranks right up with the likes of Allen Hynek and James McDonald. The reason is that Jacques has attempted to look at the phenomenon from a much larger perspective than the narrow perspectives we see so much of today. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations Message-ID: <140398.2ACBADDB@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 2 Oct 92 02:00:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - >Vallee's interviews and research and his clear writing style take > >one through the tangled stories and the hidden agendas of their > >participants. Vallee's reputation allows him access to these people > >that the normal person with an interest in the UFO culture would not > >have. Then he asks the hard questions. > > > >For example, if there is a secret base under Area 51, "Who takes out > >the garbage?" "Why haven't any of the civilian surveying satellites > >picked any traces of this base?" etc. > > I have not read the book, but seems like we KNOW there is a base there, > so these arguments seem fairly beyond reason... > It's really just a matter of WHAT are they doing there, and what > kinds of vehicles are test flown there? How do we KNOW that there is an *underground* base there? We don't, unless you know something that we don't. Area 51 exists, but even we don't know the extent of what that implies. > >Vallee's conclusion is that disinformation is probably the reason > >for most of this noise. Citing the intelligence background of > >Cooper/Lear/Moore et al, a vague pattern emerges. However, the > >reason behind the coordinated feeding and care of the disinformation > >campaign cannot be firmly grasped. > > Of course there is a lot of disinformation regarding these issues. It is > fairly common knoledge that the ONI and CIA are constanly feuding and > that Cooper has Navy connections and Lear has CIA connections, but it > is also that wisps of the truth slip out along with the > disinformation... > JV didn't come up with this on his own, it's well known. The idea of disinformation is to disinform and send researchers off into the "wild blue yonder" looking for something that is not there. With this in mind, we must concentrate on what it is that we are originally looking for: proof that saucers exist and if so, what are they and where are they from. This must be done using scientific methodology rather than a bunch of speculation passed off as fact. > >So I recommend this book, if you follow this newsgroup and your > >kill file is getting larger and larger. > > I have said this before to several people and will repeat it here: > > JV is not main-stream. He is a loaner, predisposed to many ideas that > the community of UFO researchers would not always agree with, so keep > that in mind when you read his books. He is highly opinionated, and > could quite possibly be very misguided in his conclusions... I totally disagree with this statement. Can you prove these statements about Jacques' research? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!nntp!lightnin From: lightnin@planet10.WPI.EDU (Paraaaaaaaaade of Shoooooooooes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Vote - final results Date: 2 Oct 92 15:57:58 Organization: DeityCo: Major and Minor Deities Placement Agency Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: planet10.wpi.edu In-reply-to: Earth@ed.ac.uk's message of 2 Oct 92 15:06:43 GMT >>>>> On 2 Oct 92 15:06:43 GMT, Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) said: [Lots of vote results, the gist being that Kibo won deleted.] As a runner-up, I'd like to be among the first to congratulate Kibo on his winning this election. I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors. -lightnin /| Lightning: (n) A Force of Nature consisting of an electric discharge. / |_Virtual Enterprises, GmbH: Bureaucracy Inaction! /_ /======================================================================= / / |Up the long ladder, and down the short rope, |Email: / /_ |to Hell with King Billy, and God bless the Pope, |lightnin /_ / |if that doesn't do, we'll tear him in two, |@wpi.wpi.edu / / |and send him to Hell with his red, white, and blue.|__________________ / / | -Traditional Irish Children's Song / /=========================================================================== |/ "Dark is not one of my favorite colors." -Ralph, the All Purpose Animal. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11959 alt.alien.visitors:9901 alt.religion.kibology:4047 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!gatech!rutgers!psinntp!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!rsholmes From: rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: Date: 2 Oct 92 02:21:58 GMT References: <66451@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> <1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5.tellabs.com> <66981@cup.portal.com> Followup-To: alt.religion.kibology Organization: Syracuse University Lines: 18 In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of Thu, 1 Oct 92 06:49:23 PDT In article <66981@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Folks: Some people may like to call this the end times and that >is OK, because it is the end of the age. The bible says that Jesus >said I'll be with you to the end of the world, and it did say this >in the King James version of the bible but in the original text it >says, I will be with you to the end of the age. We're just getting >started folks, hold on to your hats. It may get a little bumpy before >we get to smooth sailing. >John Winston. Is that why our data acquisition computer keeps crashing? -- - Rich Holmes "In general, the dance music of P.D.Q. Bach -- although we have no documentary evidence of this -- suggests that one of his legs was shorter than the other." -- Prof. Peter Schickele Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11960 alt.alien.visitors:9902 sci.skeptic:31919 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <67067@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 13:18:30 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 62 1>+_ Subject: Dolphin Spills The Beans. As most of you know scientist have been working for a long time to try to communicate with dolphins. Just lately a person using a computer was successful in figuring out most of the dolphin's chips and other sounds. Here are some of the questions and answers put to a 4 year old dolphin they call Adonis; Dr. Jones: Good morning, Adonis, are you ready to chat? Adonis: Good morning doctor. Yes, I have much to say. Dr. Jones: Tell me what it's like to live in the sea. Adonis: It's a fantastic place to be. My friends and I love the freedom and the wide open spaces. In fact, I hope you plan to return me there soon. The time spent here has been good, but I miss my family and friends. Dr. Jones: I wasn't aware. If you promise to return for future talk, I'll get you back soon. Now tell us how you view man. Adonis: We;re quite envious of you ability to live on land and in water. I'd also love to have a pair of arms and hands. It can be aggravating trying to (unintelligible)..but fingers would solve that problem. Dr. Jones: Is there anything important you'd like to share with us? Adonis: A major earthquake will strike halfway round the world in 1993. Dr. Jones: you mean on the west coast of the United States? Adonis: Yes, I believe it's the area humans call Caifornia. It will be devastating. Dr. Jones Do you have any good news to share? Adonis: Hmm, yes, now that you mention it . That illness you call cancer can be cured with medication made from special seaweed. On a future visit I will bring you some. Dr. Jones: That would be wonderful Now tell me something. Are their mermaids? Adonis: Of course there are. The best place to find them is the Mediterranean. But they thrive in most warm weather regions and their not as good liooking as you think they are. Dr. Jones: What kind of problems face dolphins? Adonis: Pollution is the biggest one. The ocean used to be a great place to live, but it's loaded with chemicals, human waste and all sorts of trash now. I've seen dolphins with awful sores caused by this. Dr. Jones: What else bothers dolphins. Adonis: Your heartless fishermen who don't care if we get caught up in their nets and die. Dr. Jones: What does a dolphin do for fun? Adonis: We like to cruise the soreline looking for humans out for a swim. It's fun to watch men and women from below. Shame on some of you who treat the ocean like their toilet or who sneak a bit of sex in the surf. Dr. Jones: Are there any other sea dwellers as smart as dolphins? Adonis: Not really. Most fish are as dumb as a (unintelligible). Why do you think we take to humans as much as we do? It's because you're second to us in the smarts department. Dr. Jones: Aren't we exaggerating a bit? Adonis: Not a bit. At least we're smart enough to keep our home clean. Humans have polluted both their own homeland and our seas. Tell me that's not a stupid thing to do. Dr. Jones: Good point. You're a very observant creature. It's been enlightening chatting with you. Adonis: Thank you doctor. One more thing. Get rid of that tie. It makes you look like a (unintelligible)... Remember, the time is coming for me to go home again. I'll come back though with other volunteers. So that's it folks. Would a dolphin lie? John Winston to cruise the soreling looking fo_ wZ ,E9z,$xx% xQ x_ xa , E9z,< 0Roman 10cpia (unintelligible). Why do you think we take to humans as much as we do? It's because you're second to us in Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!uwm.edu!linac!convex!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rickg From: rickg@netcom.com (Rick Gordon) Subject: Re: Vote - final results Message-ID: <1992Oct2.202158.846@netcom.com> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Keywords: vote, spokesman, Earth, results Organization: Netcom - All the News, All the Time References: Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:21:58 GMT Lines: 15 Now that the process has run its course, it's time for congratulations to the new Spokesman for Earth, and a hearty "Nice try" to all the other candidates who were as dust under the wheels of the inexorable Kibological Leadership. I'm sure we can put the trust of the peoples of Earth in the hands and feet of our new Spokesman. Kibo will be permitted to include "Spokesman for Earth" on his resume, his business cards, and on any campaign material he might produce in aid of the upcoming US elections. Speech! -- Rick Gordon | "Often in error, never in doubt." rickg@netcom.com | --- Universal Marketing Department motto Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!news From: linebaug@basalt.cps.msu.edu (Kurt P Linebaugh) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 ---> October2, 1992 Message-ID: <1992Oct2.200339.13661@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 2 Oct 92 20:03:39 GMT References: <1992Sep30.192757.17590@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Sender: news@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 6 Today is October 2, 1992-- three months from July 4, 1992. I am sick and tired of seeing this subject. GIVE IT A REST! _ Kurt P. Linebaugh linebaug@cps.msu.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11962 alt.alien.visitors:9905 sci.skeptic:31926 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!cs.ubc.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Oct2.215420.5051@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <67067@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 21:54:20 GMT Lines: 33 In article <67067@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: [...] |> |> Subject: Dolphin Spills The Beans. |> As most of you know scientist have been working for a long time to try to |> communicate with dolphins. Just lately a person using a computer was [...] |> So that's it folks. Would a dolphin lie? |> John Winston [...] Thanks John, That was the most fun I've had in days. The part that really amused me was the (unintelligible) parts ;^) Leonard. P.S> I noticed the "Subject: Dolphin Spills The Beans." line burried in the post. If you can only get it into the header we can get rid of the annoying "Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day" subject once and for all. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9906 sci.skeptic:31927 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!dct.zrz.tu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!fuug!prime!mits!kauhunen From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:37:37 GMT Message-ID: <1992Oct2.223737.19848@prime.mdata.fi> References: <1992Oct2.155112.20362@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: usenet@prime.mdata.fi (Usenet poster) Nntp-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi Lines: 12 *>I'll go even farther... I'll bet that the proof turns out to be that *>there are *many* faces found.. not just one.. how's that for proof? That's poor for proof. We are tended to see human faces in different formations; its in our psychologic construction. The first figure that a new born baby recognize is human face. If we adults see a figure that's not familiar, we start instictively look for human face in it - and in most cases we find it. -- * kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi * * Mr Kari Nenonen * * Helsinki - Finland * Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations Message-ID: <1992Oct2.212117.4644@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <140398.2ACBADDB@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 21:21:17 GMT Lines: 44 In article <140398.2ACBADDB@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: [...] [someone else was saying this next bit] |> > |> > JV is not main-stream. He is a loaner, predisposed to many ideas that |> > the community of UFO researchers would not always agree with, so keep |> > that in mind when you read his books. He is highly opinionated, and |> > could quite possibly be very misguided in his conclusions... |> [Michael's response] |> I totally disagree with this statement. Can you prove these statements about |> Jacques' research? |> |> Mike |> [...] Having read the last 4 or 5 of Vallee's books, I would tend to agree that he holds unorthodox theories and is *highly* opinionated. The idea that he might be wrong just goes with the territory. Vallee (in _Revelations_) gave me the impression that he thought he was the only UFO researcher with a brain and everyone else was incompetent or worse. He seemed quite hostile and self-satisfied and it kind of got on my nerves. Some of his arguments against other peoples research seemed to carry too much emotional baggage for my tastes. That being said, (and being my *subjective* opinion of course) I have a lot of respect for him and I tend to agree with a lot of his opinions. I highly recommend his books. I feel his research is well thought out and carefully executed. I like his methodology and his questioning of preconcieved notions (like the ETH), I just don't like his "style" ;^) Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <67084@cup.portal.com> From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 17:07:53 PDT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Distribution: world Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 72 1>+| !Subject: Space Gold. Part 2. Let me before going further in the story inform you that there are two things that are bad news about this situation. The three people who told this story went to try to find this city but never returned again. The mine and tunnel that the person fell into has been changed by a large rain storm so they couldn't find it again. One bit of good newws is that there is another entrance into the city and its location should be easy to find. When our prospectors found the city they found that there were arches that opened up on the side of the mountain and as you look out of these arches you can see the Furnace Creek Ranch and the green area of Furance Creek. This is an area that I'm farmiliar with and I've been to the area before. As I was in the area a few years ago I had sort of a psychic pick up about the area. This has happened more than once before. This happens when there is something about an area that I am supposed to investigate. A bit more bad news about the area is that people have gone to the area of Furnace Creek Ranch and looked up in the direction of the Panamint Mountains and didn't see any arches with binoculars. Call me a dreamer but I believe that a person can look at the mountains and make out the water line just like it can be seen in the Salton Sea, Calif area and with this information find the entrance. I am well equipped for this sort of investigation in that I have a 1982 toyota 4X4 pickup, with a CB base station radio. I also have a honda 90 trail bike. Who knows this winter I may give it a try. The American Indians know a lot about this area of Calif. and a Paiute Indian once told something about the are, these are his words; You ask me if we heard of the great airships in the days before the white man brought his wagon trains into the land? We, of the Paiute Nation, have known of these ships for untold generations. We also believe that we know something of the people who fly them.. They are call The Hav=musuvs. They are a people of the Panamints and they are as ancient as Tomesha itself. When the world was young and this valley which is now dry, parched desert, was a lush, hidden harbor of a blue water-sea which stretched from half up those mountains to the Gulf of California, it is said that he Hav=musuvs came here in huge rowing ships. They found the caverns in the Panamints, and in them they built one of their cities. At that time California was a land which the Indians of the state told the Spanish it was, and which they marked so on their maps. Living in their hidden city, the Hav-musuvs ruled the sea with their fast rowing ships, trading with far-away peoples and bringing strange goods to the great quays said still to exist in the caverns. Then over a long period of time the water dried up. First the way was broken only by the southern mountains over the tops of which goods could be carried. But as time went by, then the area became a desert. When the Hav-musuvs could no longer use their great rowing-ships, they began to think of other means to reach the world beyond, I suppose that is how it happened. We know that they began to use flying canoes. At first they were not large these silvery ships. They moved with a slight whirring sound and a dipping movement, like an eagle. They are beautiful people. Their skin is a golden tint and a head band holds back their long dark hair. They dress always in a white fine spun garment which wraps around them and is draped upon one shoulder. Pale sandals are worn under their feet. So this is me speaking again. So there you have it folks. Would an American Indian lie? End of Story. John Winston. 55 , PA 9cJK,x lxmx7xx[x. x 9cJK,< 0Roman 10cpin. The three people who told this story went to try to find this city but never returned again. The mine an Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uwm.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations Message-ID: Date: 3 Oct 92 01:51:31 GMT References: <140397.2ACBADD9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 8 Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: I second this, and wish to add a couple of comments. ... I third it. JV is very readable writer, and says a lot of interesting things. Charles Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!spool.mu.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!matthews_k From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: He's Baaack! Message-ID: <1992Oct2.105011.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 2 Oct 92 17:50:11 GMT Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 11 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu I know this properly belongs in the startrek group, but I couldn't resist posting it here, recalling all the posts awhile back saying Perot was an alien stooge... Does anyone else think that Perot bears an uncanny resemblence to a Ferengi (those "lovable" Used-Car-Salesmen-of-the-Galaxy tm)? no offense intended to real used car salesmen, of course :-). Kellie M-S internet::matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11964 alt.alien.visitors:9911 sci.skeptic:31947 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!rochester!rocksanne!brahms!eradm From: eradm@brahms.Berkeley.EDU (Erik Radmall) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day) Keywords: Heaven Message-ID: <1992Oct2.173212.29334@spectrum.xerox.com> Date: 2 Oct 92 17:32:12 GMT References: <1992Oct2.015148.10036@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Oct2.141636.12979@ntb.ch> Sender: news@spectrum.xerox.com Reply-To: eradm@brahms.Berkeley.EDU (Erik Radmall) Organization: Xerox Lines: 31 In article <1992Oct2.141636.12979@ntb.ch>, milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: |> |> Free Radical (RA) asks about reincarnation: |> |> > Paul - which people acknowledge this, and do they have any |> > scientific basis for doing so? |> |> The people I was referring to are the ones who are what I would have to call |> "spiritual" in the western world. There are others, non-spiritual, here too. |> There are also apparently several hundreds of millions of believers in |> reincarnation in places like India, Tibet, Japan and other countries (Hindus, |> Buddhists, Jains). Some rogue Christian churches also still accept this |> doctrine, and indeed it was accepted Christian belief until about the 5th |> Century, when it was edited from the bible after the decision of a Council. What evidence do you have that reincarnation was accepted before the 5th century by Christians? Who edited it? What council decided it? What did the Bible originally say? (no flames please - these are simply questions for references, not an attack). |> [much deleted] |> Cheers, Paul. |> |> milsom@ntb.ch |> Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J. Erik Radmall | Xerox Corp. eradm@brahms.wbst845e.xerox.com | Knowledge-Based Systems Competency Center -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9912 alt.conspiracy:18646 alt.politics.perot:3095 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: **GREY OCTOBER** Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:44:26 GMT Message-ID: <1992Oct2.234426.23025@bilver.uucp> References: <1992Sep30.171601.13346@sunova.ssc.gov> Lines: 50 In article <1992Sep30.171601.13346@sunova.ssc.gov> kevlar@andorra.ssc.gov (Kevlar) writes: > > > > HERE IS THE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL FEAR.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > >OCTOBER SURPISE???? > >You Fools! Perot is a Grey. >How did he make his Billions? Advanced Tech. >Why did he suddenly decide to run? >Why is he so secretive? >Why is he not telling us what his plan is once he becomes President? >Why is he so scared of the press? >Why does he want to hook up the country electronically? >Who is he really reporting to? > >Is he really running for office? of course he is!! > >I think it is clear what his plans were. >He is going to gain the Presidency. Clear the way for the Grey invasion. >And kick back with a Miller in a human free world. > >Scared Yet? >You should be! > > >(reposted from a previous article) > Tell me...how many of them brewski's did you consume before you posted this missive of wisdom? :-) Ross Perot *win* the election??? You better go look at the polls and read them carefully..Perot will be damned lucky to get 6% of the vote (if that). NO ONE LIKES A QUITTER! I predict that Clinton will win by a HUGE margin..time to get a job lined up for Quayle ..of course Bush will end up at the UN in the employ of his Rockefeller masters...mark my words :-) Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9913 alt.politics.kibo:172 alt.religion.kibology:4056 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo! Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1992Oct2.184533.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:43:42 GMT Lines: 104 In article <1992Oct2.184533.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >Rick Gordon of Netcom, who instigated this whole thing, has called for Kibo >to give an acceptance speech in alt.alien.visitors. He also says that Kibo >may list his new title on his business card and in campaign literature for >the upcoming presidential election. Oh, foo, now I have to redeisgn my card AGAIN! >When I nominated Kibo for this position, I was concerned about the short >notice and time period for voting. I think all the people out there who >worked so hard to get out the vote for Leader Kibo should give themselves >a pat on the back for a job well done! If you are unable to do so due to single-jointedness, drop by and I will give you a pat on the back. >40 Kibo >11 Geoff Miller, American > 9 Cicciolina > 9 lightnin@wpi.wpi.edu > 8 Dalai Lama > 3 Carl Sagan [etc., etc.] SPEECH, ACCEPTANCE, STANDARD: ONE ================================= "Ladies, and gentlemen (in no particular order), I thank you for voting for me, because in so doing you have voted for yourselves, although your selves have also vote for me, but I also voted for me, so I really voted for you. However, this is in no way concerned with the ever-pressing problem of bad typography. "Because I am Kurt Vonnegut's evil twin, I must digress. Here is the shortest story I have ever written." THE BRADY BUNCH GETS STRANDED ON GILLIGAN'S ISLAND WITH THE THREE STOOGES: No. "As far as I know, that is the only story which is only two letters long. It contains no swears and is absolutely politically correct. Pfeh! I am not politically correct. I am politically perfect. Thus, I will not admit to ever having seen the Brady Bunch episode where Marcia gets hit in the face with a football, because I am the reputable Spokesman For The Whole Wide Earth. "I have a Whole Earth Catalog in my lap. It keeps me from getting burned by my soup. My soup is a multiethnic delight of kosher peas with daringly nonkosher Spam. Of course, some would say that the peas would no longer be kosher, because they had come in contact with the Spam. To this I say: Spam Is Kosher! All you have to do is eat all the carbon atoms first. Carbon is kosher. Then eat all the oxygen atoms, then the hydrogen atoms, and so on down to the traces of radioactive strontium. It all goes to the same place, so it is just like eating Spam, but you are spared the insufferable delight of eating something verboten." "Then again, if you look at it another way, everything is non-kosher, because somehwere, ten thousand years ago, a pig died and turned to dust, and one of his atoms migrated into the ground, where it wound up in a pea plant, and therefore my peas all have microscopic bits of pig in them. Clearly, a new classification for food is called for. I'm glad I don't worry about such things. "Back to the subject. The subject of this speech, as you have noticed, is my spokesmanliness. Notice as I say that word that I sound just like Adam West. I had a class in that. It was the lowest level of speech class: In 'Voice And Articulation' we did not make speeches. We practiced saying single vowels and consonants. On one day we worked on the schwa. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. Another day we did the eng: ding, dong, dung, sing, sang, sung. Eventually we worked our way up to nasalized pairs of vowels and consonants: Nancy, hand the man the dandy candy. Say that exciting little phrase ten million times and you, too, can sound like Adam West! "If only all problems were that much fun to solve. "As I see it, the only problem I will have to face as Spokesman For Earth, is, who do I talk to? We don't know where the aliens are or even if they're listening. I could just go to a mountain and stand there and shout, 'Hey you guys! I'm spokesman for this planet! You can probably see it from where you are, if you can hear me! Hello? Is anyone there?' Or I could dial random numbers on the phone and ask, 'Hello, may I speak to any alien beings who might be at home?' Clearly, I must wait until we know who to talk to before I can talk to them intelligently. "And what intelligent phrase would the aliens say to us to introduce themselves? "They would probably have learned English by watching our television. I suppose a small group of aliens would probably land in the capital. The leader would step up to the President, and say in his best Adam-West style voice: 'Quick, Robin, to the Batcave!'. The second alien would whine, 'He was just taking advantage of a conveeeenient local legend!' while the third said 'Just the facts, ma'am.' Now, these aliens, for all intents and purposes, would be conforming to the norms of our society as broadcast into deep space. "Clearly, I am the person most suited to communicate with them. Not only have I seen Stephen Hawking's movie, but I've also seen the episode of 'Perfect Strangers' where Balki and Larry bake cookies that explode. I know the Pythagoream Theorem, and that Don Adams wears elevator shoes. I've seen the fall of Communism and the farewell of Johnny Carson. And I want to talk about it. "Bring on the aliens. And if they try to eat me, I'll just stare them squarely in the five eyes and say: 'You can't eat me. I'm the only man who knows which "Brady Bunch" episode has the scene where they leave in the blue car and come back in the brown station wagon.' "Bring them on, bring them on, bring them on!" -- Kibo Vonnegut Jr. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Auras Message-ID: <140404.2ACD3F29@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 3 Oct 92 06:30:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras. If this > is a > figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one. Usually that signals the onset of diabetes. :-) -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11966 alt.alien.visitors:9915 sci.skeptic:31956 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <67114@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 07:15:55 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <67067@cup.portal.com> Lines: 9 Dear Folks: The council that was held to change the bible was called The Council of Nice. The word is spelled Nice but it is pronounced Nicea. Today is saturday and Lord willing I'll be taking off for Mt. Shasta in an hour or two. I wish that you all could take a drink from the 120 feet deep well that is on our property, it's really taste good. It would also be good if you could look up at the stars at night and see the sky from an altitude of 4,490 feet. You can see more stars than you ever dreamed possible. See you on about tuesday. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11967 alt.alien.visitors:9916 alt.religion.kibology:4060 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage Message-ID: <67117@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 07:21:25 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <66451@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep23.164901.27569@cbnewsc.cb.att.com><1992Sep25.175939.15686@tellab5 .tellabs.com> <66981@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Everbody: Thanks for your patience (Mike) I'm taking off for Mt. Shasta now and should be back on tuesday or wednesday. John Winston Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!scsuc.ctstateu.edu!thompson From: thompson@scsuc.ctstateu.edu Subject: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <1992Oct3.130457.1@scsuc.ctstateu.edu> Lines: 25 Sender: news@cs.yale.edu (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: scsuc.ctstateu.edu Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 18:04:57 GMT ALL THAT TALK ABOUT GOING TO KINDERGARTEN WAS JUST HYPOTHETICAL RIGHT MAN, I FAILED KINDERGARTEN, I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK. SO IF ALIENS DO COME AND FOR SOME REASON WANT TO "ENLIGHTEN" US POOR BACKWARD HUMANS, I SAY SERVE THEM DINNER AND ASK THEM TO GO. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9918 alt.paranormal:5859 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!jls19 Organization: Penn State University Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 12:51:48 EDT From: Message-ID: <92277.125148JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Eastern UFO Symposium Lines: 148 No, there isn't one planned. The question is: why not? If they can do it at Berkeley, why can't we coordinate something like that here? After my letter you will find the posting about the Berkeley Symposium. I'd like to propose that somehow we bring about a similar symposium here in the east, preferably in PA, since that 's where I live. Why does CA and the West have everything? This is a call for ideas, volunteers, speakers, workers, locations, helpers, attendees, any and all who want to get involved! Please reply either via private email or let's get this discussion going here, alright? Janet Smith From: davidj@wrs.com (David Jones) Subject: Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message Message-ID: Sender: news@wrs.com (News Manager) Nntp-Posting-Host: erra Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:57:06 GMT Lines: 124 ############################################################################ # The following is sent as a public service announcement and is for # # informational purposes only. I am not receiving any renumeration for # # helping to inform the public in this regards. I will be happy to # # answer any questions about the below that you may have. # # # # Thank you. David W. Jones davidj@wrs.com OR uunet!wrs!davidj # ############################################################################ The Society for the Advancement of Civilization Presents: Extraterrestrial Contact The Meaning and The Message Saturday, October 10, 1992 10:00am to 9:30pm Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley At Gayley Road across from the Greek Theater A public forum on the legitimate scientific inquiry into one of the most controversial issues facing our planet today. Why does extraterrestrial con- tact have value for the people of Earth? There are increasing numbers of aware, articulate people from a variety of professional and cultural back- grounds who have been contacted by extraterrestrials. Come, hear and meet an impressive group of research experts and persons who have had close encounters. R. Leo Sprinkle, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of Psychology, University of Wyom- ing, Laramie, where he was director of counseling services, and founder of the Institute for UFO Contactee Studies, is an early investigator of hundreds of Close Encounter cases beginning in 1955. He served with APRO as a consultant for psychology and is the principle investigator of the John Salter case. He is the organizer of the Annual Rocky Mountain UFO Conference. James A. Harder, Ph. D., Professor Emeritus of Engineering, U.C. Berkeley, pioneered the use of hypnosis in close-encounter cases since 1962, and the study of E.T./human interactions and their influences on this planet. He will describe emerging information about the characteristics of advanced civiliza- tions and how this information could help inspire us to a more hopeful view of Earth. John Salter, Ph. D., Professor of Indian Studies Univ. of North Dakota, will lead several people with close encounter experiences in a round table discus- sion. Dr. Salter will also tell of his own continuing encounters. He was featured in the May 1991, CBS prime time special "Visitors from the Unknown" He teaches a very popular university course which accepts the reality of extraterrestrial contact. Richard F. Haines, Ph.D., Psychologist and research scientist. His interest in discovering the core nature of UFO phenomenon spans 20 years with special interest in sightings by pilots, photo analysis, and CE4. He recently founded and co-directs the Joint American- Soviet Aerial Anomaly Federation. Richard J. Boylan, Ph.D., A psychologist in private practice. He has assisted in the understanding and the integration of ET experiences into everyday life. He will speak about the "mind field" of new information developing for those with extraterrestrial close encounters and for the Society of Planet Earth. Cathy W., A California person with some very interesting close encounters, and whose events were thoroughly recorded by a well- known researcher/investigator. Her experiences were shown in a documentary on a prime-time NBC program. A special two hour question and answer period in the evening will be hosted by the participants in the above program. A special multi-media presentation of ET close encounter experiences will also be presented. Doors open at 9:15 am. Events begin at 10:00 am and end at 9:30 pm. Cost is $30.00. Free educational video with reservations received by October 6th, 1992. Seating is limited, so please reserve your seats in advance. Priority is given to those who have paid advance reservations & who have arrived by 9:45am. Tickets will be sold at the door. Please no video/tape recording. Videos and tapes will be made available to attendees at the forum. ============================================================================= Extraterrestrial Contact: The Meaning and the Message Saturday, October 10, 1992, 10:00 am to 9:30 pm Physical Sciences Lecture Hall, UC Berkeley An open forum presented by the Society for the Advancement of Civilization, a not for profit corporation formed to study extraterrestrial civilizations as they may pertain to the future of Earth and to create an environment for all those interested in extraterrestrial contact to share with others their experiences and viewpoints in an open and non-threatening atmosphere. Directions: From hiway 80, take the University Avenue turnoff in Berkeley, east, toward the hills. Turn left on Oxford, go two blocks and turn right on Hearst Avenue. The parking garage is 6 blocks up Hearst. Turn right on Gayley Road (it will be La Loma to your left) and go about two blocks, across from the Greek Theater, on your right, a round short building. We have reserved 100 spaces at the parking garage (marked H above) located at the corner of La Loma Avenue and Hearst Avenue, on a first-come first-serve basis. Parking in this garage will be $3.00 for the full day. Show the atten- dant this flyer, or tell them that you will be attending the Extraterrestrial Contact symposium. We encourage everyone to bring a bag lunch and eat with one another on campus in one of the many tree lined grassy park areas. We will provide a map of local restaurants for your convenience for those who wish to eat out. For more information, call (510) 526-8989 or (415) 453-2735 after October 1st. Sponsored by The Society for the Advancement of Civilization & The First Sun- day Study Group Please reserve ________ seats at $30.00 each (tickets and your free educational video to be picked up at the door) for: Name ___________________________ Street _________________________________________ City ___________________________ Zip __________ Phone ___________________________ Make checks payable to: Berkeley Symposium Checks must be received by October 6th, 1992 Send to: Berkeley Symposium P.O. Box 9073 Berkeley, CA 94709-9073 ------------------------------------- EOF -------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11969 alt.alien.visitors:9919 sci.skeptic:31964 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!gatech!ncar!noao!arizona.edu!skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu!lippard Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Heaven (was Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day) Message-ID: <3OCT199211211837@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) Date: 3 Oct 1992 11:21 MST References: <1992Sep30.132125.8199@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> <1992Oct1.182744.19849@ntb.ch> Distribution: world,local Organization: University of Arizona Keywords: Heaven Nntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 15 In article <1992Oct1.182744.19849@ntb.ch>, milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes... >Well, when it comes to this kind of question, I can't resist biting either, >as I've got a copy of the book with all the answers to this kind of question. >YES. It's called "A Course In Miracles". With "Heaven", we have to define our >terms. There does seem to be a state ("level") like John mentioned, where >you're in a wonderful "country", and everybody is happy and loving. I heard >Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Please see Martin Gardner's column in the latest issue of the _Skeptical Inquirer_ for the details on _A Course in Miracles_. Jim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Dept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11970 alt.alien.visitors:9920 sci.skeptic:31966 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!lll-winken!bu.edu!wang!news From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <2647@israel.nysernet.org> Date: 2 Oct 92 08:52:13 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <66929@cup.portal.com> <66979@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@wang.com Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs Lines: 14 In <66979@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Astral Flyers: It seems that my last posting about the history >of the earth got shot down towards the end by some flamer. No, it was NuWaveOrderPhysicUsenet which caused John's fingers to hit keys at random during the posting. Since this effect usually doesn't kick in until the second page, it would be best for John to go back to sending his articles one screen-dump at a time. -- /|/-\/-\ I'll leave you with this saying: |__/__/_/ Th'HOSTESS FACTORY is closin' down and I just heard ZASU |warren@ PITTS has been DEAD for YEARS.. (sniff) / nysernet.org Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9921 alt.politics.kibo:173 alt.religion.kibology:4065 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo! Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results Message-ID: Date: 3 Oct 92 15:06:10 GMT References: <1992Oct2.184533.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 14 kibo@world.std.com (bloody great... oh, pardon me, madam) writes: ...I could just go to a mountain and stand there and shout, 'Hey you guys! I'm spokesman for this planet! You can probably see it from where you are, if you can hear me! Hello? Is anyone there?' ... I think this is by far the best plan. I recommend you do this, without delay, and wait there as long as is necessary. I shall sleep the sleep of the saved, knowing that the great kibo is far away, indeed as far away as possible, on a mountain shouting at the stars. Congratulations! Charles Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9922 alt.binaries.pictures.misc:10907 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.binaries.pictures.misc Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: belgufo.lzh, part 2/2 Belgian_UFO_JPEG_pic Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 02:22:22 GMT Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.binaries.pictures.d Lines: 869 Hi, this is an archieve with a JPEG pic of the 1989 sighted Belgian UFO, where the military also reported Radar contact. To view it, just paste the parts together and uudecode it. To view it, just decompress the *.lzh archieve : lharc x *.lzh Then use winjp15.zip for instance on the PC under win3.x or hv12.zip or dvpeg2.zip under DOS to view this JPEG picture. You can also convert the JPEG pic to GIF first with DJPEG and then view it with your favourite GIF viewer, like vpic, svga etc... Best regards, Stefan Hartmann, c/o Ingenierbuero Gatz & Hartmann. email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de #!/bin/sh # # This is a self-extracting shell archive of the binary file "belgufo.lzh". # Created on Sat Oct 03 02:22:19 MET 1992 by post-bin, revision 2.2. # # To decode with /bin/sh, remove everything before the /bin/sh and feed # each piece as input to /bin/sh. When all the pieces have been # processed, the archive will automatically concatenate the pieces and # uudecode them to produce belgufo.lzh. If successful, it will remove all # uuencoded pieces. Alternatively, the archive(s) may be processed with # no editing by the unshar program. # # If you do not have /bin/sh or unix, you may decode by removing # everthing before/after the lines beginning with the word BEGIN/END, # respectively, in each piece. Then concatenate the pieces in the proper # order and uudecode. # part=2 pfile=belgufo.lz file=belgufo.lzh psize=49058 sed -e '/^BEGIN/d' -e '/^END/d' << \End_of_Section > $pfile.$part BEGIN------------ belgufo.lzh ------------ part 2/2 --- M&9R

JY?T)O?LQP7XCH2P?-#8-(IF"?89WQ\K% M=V039&1:P9Y]')? 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To view it, just paste the parts together and uudecode it. To view it, just decompress the *.lzh archieve : lharc x *.lzh Then use winjp15.zip for instance on the PC under win3.x or hv12.zip or dvpeg2.zip under DOS to view this JPEG picture. You can also convert the JPEG pic to GIF first with DJPEG and then view it with your favourite GIF viewer, like vpic, svga etc... Best regards, Stefan Hartmann, c/o Ingenierbuero Gatz & Hartmann. email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de #!/bin/sh # # This is a self-extracting shell archive of the binary file "belgufo.lzh". # Created on Sat Oct 03 02:22:07 MET 1992 by post-bin, revision 2.2. # # To decode with /bin/sh, remove everything before the /bin/sh and feed # each piece as input to /bin/sh. When all the pieces have been # processed, the archive will automatically concatenate the pieces and # uudecode them to produce belgufo.lzh. If successful, it will remove all # uuencoded pieces. Alternatively, the archive(s) may be processed with # no editing by the unshar program. # # If you do not have /bin/sh or unix, you may decode by removing # everthing before/after the lines beginning with the word BEGIN/END, # respectively, in each piece. Then concatenate the pieces in the proper # order and uudecode. # part=1 pfile=belgufo.lz file=belgufo.lzh psize=61960 sed -e '/^BEGIN/d' -e '/^END/d' << \End_of_Section > $pfile.$part BEGIN------------ belgufo.lzh ------------ part 1/2 --- begin 600 belgufo.lzh M+2\M;&@Q+>DX 0"B.P$ A(4C&2 "T)%3$=51D\N2E!'!Y%5 -A IBJ @2H" M2P"+9,5LQF_=38]-!:3W^;^)GZ.Q 6 "WLQP7%9%%M.?T&1V\XK M3B;F!M:JY/U!!?'XZH@!X KU4 !D,FY*P!E,DFY%S895J8B;H&V7S&;S+43: M&DLT]SV:.8);.J0U0QG] JKE1B[@HZZ&H48J!H(S2_@!SY@#^T$B')3<'ET% MONM2!C$>>$),C9][ZY)#*'4<#"/\,AOSE2_:9?!8G*7MBSIP+A*V%R5+1/)FIK0.%<@IVH7X M'H]GP^GY0J)1PSZZN&'*Q7?X*OA80N\1?J9>I1L!@L)AS*9GK+V^67E2*6_H M:/.(I(.Q8O;U>#Q,!A2"V6\JE9N-[(9)B-6/()"\GG*G39$DHU$Q#"8'B M\'J>ST;-1HM!EIE4FY)I)F'!P$AO33=/#[6A7);K4;->C?41E4+ ,B#?*"8K MT9Y8R')5_/SRNRTTI#WG;]+*@5-$-OKXN.&A85<#!(4$Q$0=G:T.# \*K@UL M("__8 >FNGJ:'H%#S"2*>A0>:J>5G8W.MFN9F%MFZYT/,8U.;M'//*&0"ZG: M"G:_"7C3_@=IQ":!QH1+RJ_F:GX,0<]S"<3\GD1^V0+8/_IXW%-E3F.RZ0[O M$TUES_%3*-K66[,FJY\]=CA*$2V(FWIO Z$-\5>F(]K;W1L0.@.-0-=-BD(* M:\\^P]AL_%AU3E4X9Y@OG]=+*&2*&9W47PGZ+J\S-S&UE$EE]:I[?9Q#-=NM M3DG+*L5?(SRV'@4.MH5SC8K17=UZI2F8Y?_"&8WZJ:-PL%* MRH-U7WA)/-KLDQV(/&*5U2;K)_XLBW+.'EM*JELQV$=T-W&W99_,G^=JCE>' M9NCJS>Y"2S8_?Y )6','N5Q.W/T[((.(QBKW:Z>IE12L-KG&,@!H+=5L.%3 M)A &G&X0! =R*7/\.=J"UOQ&),BX# MQOZ4>NE/[-9^= 9-@(6L;^Q@F8M*[ M<1W6_/VBDFAT)JRM_A3K=CHIN.1)3KGF&:Z76Z#H]5F=GW8I<7MW&>9ZH# .OTKC^:&*=]_OU633:6W6ZPU1J+ M%)KE#2+9)M1.XW+T5Z'9[<6]$X_)HRYR7)'50AT90FVSA@"ES9]LTK7B_I?Q MG]SM-=AP,?9&%JJ/$(K1YZJLM^]]7_G]P]JHJ$U78PC93'4JU] MV-RRB+8*?RXX_SLQ@6V;"8PY)>N\[)T-BLV"W7E!H\^E;E?KSZ 3UZO$64W] MB&9<=XAN">W,&%@D3SKX-Q_GG8_5X5^&JU/;VDW#)>6SRFK=CI.TR;7;F?)T M]1A(&O6EB1C&A,NK!TH(/D]FY/'(\R4BG_%OC3U"DF:V+B_!OJT>)X+.T\GW MU(RM;7U]* 6:6EDL\PY;,Z/SJZ#%N\LYH,7NYNZ#8T-][KQR)M;20!YP%7;+ MK@1$'><,TT5C9>4T#\V&F]?*\WF6K^N[F56^Z_II4]!.00WFBUQL1FS^"XKI M^R)-0Z#UT$NS*)C>C^BI4H\%IUCW;M=H>W!EW0D"HXCDF6634''5-R8V>1LY MU&^L]3?R)HB=VRAY)3+B3V7OM7JYZCD,#.$V_!SS;65D&&_R/1GM;C"P90D7 M#\WQLSJ_YTX,K5N44-(66*8H:-;33U3OPBR?J,Q3*-_^Z^\N$!@J96M*W%KR M@O]6KX<,B++$5$3P.0_V>F9NVWVE M,^*4N=R.I0A#KJV)?@;_X\N?EE C!^;.JQC/PI/-H-;Q8HSR!O':T\LZX_M& M YBMW0)LBS 1?4MQW>*.6AEC--P(C=[F%/O#WC6?&_3L;#23+Y"NR="#K)(Z ME0PZ7ACW*M:]/6W2,, SE-F?ZFU#&\B4N3L79^!"@[VMFB'P\WMN;R=Q+>N' M::?8"KZI>.77EF-/C^"DKRLNBHH&7%>?DN].DB9%\J5HM@!!5XA3T >GU_IO MAGB^YR'&1[(A9%2<##>W9G$4'9 M+6I/Z)^ZBG=Q ++[:ATQF')-$ ^!]6B><5\W6T73/ OY+.=>S6GE@C2\^0Y( MMNLZ\A3(02ZC#.[DKPR>I46S$NU-WUK@Q4_I6 O04$-AM.R]9"LJ+/V5#C\.*I,M4.*0,]N MQ?Q*G_EU4Z"]/->.W\QPA@'"O'%P_=(R2BM,BO:3I-M[VE[_>-ZAZ@&PLFKJ M$,)?W3ZA"+WPVJ-9;@1H0;OPNQOL9F4V:&\L^6=ME"HV R& >:/X#$M6_53Y M#2=Z,6-GL1%C/MO MJPL^7 % "FL7"H'6CK3$H)GU'FS'?KK[BV8SE4C:95N)=YCS#-W]00WY,1:P M6\(I267/-1K'A;&QN&\?9^NXG_M4Y?^:X45"WZX!(^T=)3 /^$@VN9R"(S@T MW$7'-;__OIB\^6[/_ V;;E.;EMA$U K6,S#[Q&"AF5P FR*3JTM<:"*[%F+9 MZ"E'AB+\@0+75V\1]<)3"$B_D+HZHF_W]:K]VWK7P.U7R<@)/&-5ETWSG7@ MGI;5]6G:U073V/7C$C?@4H-YV7LU<$E46VG$H;:V!8!2RY=; M_S_HF\RE!M[)?3TE%\RFXN"N^)4AV0C!B:AE!;.?A>^0\7)V6N!3>F\Y0 82LD^;YD0,L]6 M>CO.R/&$X>K1WCWZ#:;6B@UY"0_)ZO[ &_19;3#I_!O[$EW6Z;@1^[8L_DMW MWZ?&2W2)W2G:>2%S0KC=WBU[))74,0"P/>\]^-(@7K%\'G\#1IP9DH-.@KV(%8"/(S'E X544%]IM6OO." _]S_/[;_CU[" MWMY,#[MR-+]>_BRH\P'7X*!\;FNE(K@5X](%Z/=M!VRW[#5A([VO*"4M$_ R M2YYE"LC.;?8#Y?]6/K.B;A9__&OO"9&5R!STW4Y[%K)FW*^3!,GK=6.?'RCL M?#Y$BH1LPTSSOC/QM(%C]@E(&9ZISG(GB_46?P^+\R\QN&^W*3=DH4:TV]/>$ZY/'VEC)_N MX'K44H-,F$S6SH==+1=_ZT[V+6G^*.6 L^N+%QOMN#CJTC?T*RW' MH"TSJ'.+5@/7G!K@E8@)LQB 6C*)L_GUJ_RP/KO-O-!4*(0WTY9J+;Y>9\-TTA5%8(Y>[F4X>W>T3P+M.' 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Removing uuencoded pieces. rm $pfile.[0-9]* fi exit 0 -- ************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ************************************************************* Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51512 alt.alien.visitors:9924 talk.rumors:3297 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!concert!duke!wolves!deepthot!jay From: jay@deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: Date: 3 Oct 92 23:07:30 GMT References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> Organization: The Software Distillery Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2 In article <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca>, Morgan Burke writes: > Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort. Any ideas or > suggestions as to its real meaning? We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you. jay@deepthot.cary.nc.us Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!dct.zrz.tu-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!unidui!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!cnews From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Vote - final results Message-ID: Date: 3 Oct 92 12:49:53 GMT References: <26514@castle.ed.ac.uk> Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 16 In article <26514@castle.ed.ac.uk> M Holmes writes: > > My vote for Gary Stollman didn't appear. Human error. The vote didn't have the line "Vote: Gary Stollman" but the name inserted in the middle of the text. I *remember* having added it by hand after the program rejected it. > What kind of conspiracy is this????? Of course, the aliens replaced me with a clone: this explains why I remember having added the vote, but haven't. > FoFP Clone of ClC Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11972 alt.alien.visitors:9926 sci.skeptic:31991 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!convex!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!bnrgate!nrcnet0!cunews!revcan!micor!uuisis!bbs From: doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) Subject: Nicea and dogma etc. Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 22:46:05 GMT Message-ID: <0qB4RB2w164w@uuisis.isis.org> References: <67114@cup.portal.com> Sender: bbs@uuisis.isis.org Lines: 87 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Folks: The council that was held to change the bible was called > The Council of Nice. The word is spelled Nice but it is pronounced > Nicea. The Nicean Ecumenical Council of A.D. 319, was called by the Emperor Constantine to settle the status of Jesus and invent the Trinity. Well, not quite invent, but turn it from controversy into dogma. Before Nicea, Jesus was God's Son. After Nicea, The Father, Son and Holy Ghost were 'consubstantial' - at least the son was consubstantial with the Father. Now this tooks months of debate to settle. And finally, it wasn't any of the bishops who settled it, it was the Emperor, who wasn't at the time even a baptized Christian. The question of course related to whether Jesus was God or Man or both. If he is God then he isn't man, and if he's man, he isn't God, according to one argument. The other was that he was both man and God in one of a number of sort of odd ways of reconciling contradictions. Constantine's idea of "consubstantial" wasn't a bad political compromise. But as for re-writing the Bible, it's text was fixed a couple of generations earlier. I don't recall anything from Nicea that disputes the canon of the Bible. But hey, I don't know everything. Maybe my profs and sources were lying. But since Nicea had as its main problem the Trinitarian controvery, *IF* that council had re-written the Bible, you'd think they would have stuck in something about the Trinity. It is interesting that nowhere in the Bible does the word "Trinity" appear and there are no direct references to any sort of consubstantiality of the tri-partite godhead of post-Nicean Christianity. The clostest is the gospel of John, chapter 1 (circa A.D. 90) where Logos, Son, and God are rather closely identified with each other. But that is not the Nicean Trinity. The Thomist Church of India, which claims to have been founded by St. Thomas himself (as solid a claim as the Catholics' claim to St. Peter) has no notion of Trintity at all. If you want to look this up in the Encyclopedia, check out "Monophysite Controversy". Or even "Monophysite Heresy". That's what the Trinitarians (who won) called the other side. Their argument is that God is one, not three. Then there was the council of Trent which added some stuff to the Canon, which the Protestants later rejected, ergo the Catholic Bible has stuff the Protestant Bible doesn't have. So John - I have to ask you for your sources. I *think* you're wrong on historical detail here. > Today is saturday and Lord willing I'll be taking off for Mt. > Shasta in an hour or two. I wish that you all could take a drink from > the 120 feet deep well that is on our property, it's really taste good. > It would also be good if you could look up at the stars at night and > see the sky from an altitude of 4,490 feet. You can see more stars > than you ever dreamed possible. See you on about tuesday. I like clean water and stars. I also like the Northern Lights. We get 'em all here :-). We also have snow and ice and cold that gets so cold that you can chop the clouds your breath makes with an axe and hear the sound for miles and in the summer the sun never sets. But all that is off topic. :-) The Cree say that if you look at the Northern Lights, your soul will be sucked up into heaven and the Indian kids are scared to look up at night and think we white folks are real weird for geting kinks in our necks watching the heavens explode in a cosmic light show. But that is probably off topic too :-). Have a good weekend. =Doug ---------------------------------------------------------------------- UUCP: uunet.ca!uuisis.isis.org!doug Voice: 613-722-4724 DNS: doug@uuisis.isis.org, doug@uuisis.UUCP, doug@isishq.fidonet.org SKAN Communications Inc POST: P.0. Box 3041, Stn C., Ottawa, K1Y 4J3, CANADA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9927 sci.skeptic:31994 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!pacbell.com!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!unix.nmt.com.amc From: nmt@ccc.amdahl.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Intelligent life Message-ID: <8du102id24=S01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 2 Oct 92 23:21:41 GMT References: <1992Oct2.155112.20362@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Organization: NMT - AMC Lines: 8 The surest sign that there are other intelligent life forms out there is that they never tried to contact us earthling. :-) -- I think this is from Calvin & Hobbes -- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9928 alt.conspiracy:18665 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!cs.ucf.edu!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: FILE: Bill English interview (LONG) Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:20:20 GMT Message-ID: <1992Oct4.052020.21902@bilver.uucp> Lines: 1408 A few people had asked about more info on Bill English so I dug around and pulled this off my system. It was an interview that Bill had with Rick Barbour, that John Powell was kind enough to transcribe and post to the Odyssey/Bama UFO echo on FidoNet. This is longish so I suggest that some out there in netland please make arrangements to archive this at your chosen site for future reference. -----------Begin included text--------------------------------------------- (3501) Sun 13 Sep 92 17:44 By: John Powell To: All Re: Bill English Interview, 1/9 St: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [I've removed most of the "uh's", "um's", etc.; most of the extraneous stuff. I've included "..." to indicate when the speaker was interrupted and "--" to indicate when the speaker was rambling or when the speaker was briefly, and unimportantly interrupted. The interviewer is RB and Bill English is BE.] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- INTERVIEW WITH BILL ENGLISH: 6/28/91 85 KOA-Denver, Colorado Interviewer: Rick Barbour RB: My guest this hour is a guy by the name of Bill English and Bill is a Colorado boy although he's out of town right now. And he's got a story to tell that's quite something. Good morning Bill. BE: Good morning Rick. How are you? RB: I'm all right, thanks. Why don't you kind of start this story by how you came to be the fugitive. BE: Well, in 1977 while working for the United States government at a place called RAF Chicksands in England, which is a security services command base, I was a data analyst and I was asked to analyze a document which came across my desk and material in the document was pretty astounding. RB: What was in the document? BE: Well, the document was entitled Grudge Blue Book Report Number 13. RB: Okay, now, Blue Book, if everybody remembers, was the Air Force study of UFO sightings, right? BE: Right. It was Book Number 13 was also the book that they claimed was never published. RB: Uh huh, that was the last in the series? BE: No, there was -- there were thirteen books but they were numbered one through twelve and they skipped thirteen and went directly to number fourteen. RB: Now everybody would say where's thirteen? BE: Uh, exactly. Well, the government tried to cover it up by saying that they never printed the book number thirteen because of superstition. RB: Superstition? BE: Superstition. Number thirteen being unlucky. RB: Oh, I see. Okay. All right. BE: And uh, I've uh... RB: Interesting that the Pentagon is superstitious. I had no idea. BE: Well, it's never been my experience before, but that was the story they were telling everybody. But when I analyzed the document, what it was, was a compilation of everything the government had with regards to uh, unidentified flying objects. RB: Now, you mean physical evidence? BE: Physical evidence to include aliens. RB: Uh, this now, the Blue Book Project lasted from when to when? BE: Uh, I'm not sure exactly what the exact dates are at this point. RB: Well, it started what, in the late 50's or late -- no, late 40's I guess, wasn't it? BE: Late 40's exactly. Actually it started before that with Project Grudge. RB: Huh? Project Grudge? BE: Right. Which was a -- the initial investigation into reports of what they termed at that time as Foo Fighters, which many of the World War II pilots were reporting. RB: They were called 'what' fighters? BE: Foo. RB: How do you spell that? BE: F-O-O. RB: Foo? BE: Foo. RB: Foo. Was that an acronym for something? BE: Uh, no, that was just the name they tagged them with, the pilots did. They were termed Foo Fighters and they started investigating them with Project Grudge and then after the war years the Project Grudge was redesignated Project Blue Book. RB: Okay. Of course at this time the Army Air Corps become the Air Force. BE: Right. RB: All right. And so now the Air Force started this Project Blue Book. Now, it was also because of right after the war -- late forties during the atomic bomb project and subsequent to the testing area, or era, that there was supposed to be a rash of sightings in that -- the late forties or early fifties, right? BE: Exactly, and those sightings -- the very first recorded sighting, official recorded sighting, took place at Mt. Rainier, Washington. I'm sorry, Mt. Rainier, Maryland. And -- RB: Mt. Rainier, Maryland? BE: Right. And after that there were several dozens of sightings. Washington at one point in the mid-fifties was buzzed by UFO's -- Washington, D.C. -- the Capital Building. RB: Was buzzed by a UFO? BE: UFO's. -- RB: By several? BE: Several. RB: And this is when? BE: The mid-fifties, I believe it was. RB: Okay. Now was this widely seen and reported? BE: Well, it was widely seen and it was reported somewhat until it was suddenly stopped by executive order. And -- RB: Well, the mid-fifties I would have been -- Ike? BE: I believe so, right. RB: So, Ike said no publicity. Is that right? BE: Right. RB: Of course by then it'd be a little late wouldn't it? It's like letting -- letting -- closing the gate after the horse has split. BE: Well, you've got to remember that back in those times the government could do no wrong and whenever something was requested for the good of the security of the nation, most everybody kept their mouth shut. RB: I see. Okay, so this was perceived as the good of the nation by not reporting what everybody saw. BE: Right. They didn't want to cause widespread panic. RB: Uh, well, I thought word of mouth is sort of the way panic works, if some -- if everybody in downtown D.C. had seen it, by then they'd know in Baltimore an hour later. BE: Well, I think they were operating under the premise that if it wound up in newspapers and that kind of thing, then there really would be a problem. RB: Were there any photographs? BE: There were several dozen. RB: Oh really? BE: Uh, and uh, at one point, the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization right here in Tucson, Arizona had those photographs, but with the demise of Jim and Cora (Lorenzen), then the founders of APRO, the records disappeared for several years until they were recovered recently by the International Center for UFO Studies in Scottsdale, Arizona. RB: Okay, now all of this information was sort of, shall we say discouraged, if not quashed -- BE: Right. RB: Uh, this was in the mid-fifties. Now Project Blue Book was well on its way by this time. BE: By this time it was and way in through the years we've discovered that Project Blue Book turned out to be an eyewash program for the public. Over 90% of the recorded sightings that they reported on, and this does not include the ones that they did not report on, were classified as explainable. But in point of fact, there was a higher percentage that were not -- was not explainable, but they never released these reports. RB: All right, now, you -- let's go back to what happened to you, you came across this number thirteen book. BE: Well, it's Blue Book report number thirteen. RB: Okay. Now what was in it that was so interesting? I mean, physical evidence of alien machines and alien bodies, is that part of -- BE: Well, there were several -- several dozens of photographs and among those photographs they had photographs of recovered vehicles or discs. They had photographs of autopsy reports of aliens -- RB: Now was this -- was this a copy of that report or was this the report? BE: Well, it was an annotated version of a report that had been published in the early 70's, around 1972. And I viewed the document in 1977 at RAF Chicksands. And between '72 and '77 they had added several more pages, in fact the report itself was about six hundred pages long. There were, well photographs of autopsies on aliens, there were reports of human mutilations. RB: Human mutilations? BE: Human mutilations. RB: Now, how did that get in there and how does that fit into anything? BE: Well, it was a -- it was a compilation of everything that they knew at that time concerning UFOs. And they had everything in there. And I personally believe that the designation, Grudge Blue Book 13, was a mistake on their part. But, in point of fact, that's what it was titled and the material that was in -- there was a report which apparently was being circulated around to various governments, and it came into my hands while I was working as a data analyst at RAF Chicksands. RB: Okay, now the report was being passed around to allied military personnel and intelligence personnel to share the data, right? BE: Well not only allied, but the last designated place it had been, according to the transportation sheet, which was attached to the pouch it was in, was at Moscow. RB: Really? Okay, now, you found this book somehow. How did it come to get in that stack you were looking at, I mean did they give it to you to analyze or, I mean, on purpose or, I mean since it would -- would have been prepared by the Air Force, why would you -- why would you end up analyzing it? BE: Well, my job designation was data analyst for security services command and essentially what my job was to do was take information and analyze it for its validity. RAF Chicksands was a security listening post and we monitored radio transmissions from Soviet Bloc nations. And those transmissions were translated, and then it was my job to take the information that was obtained and analyze it to try and make determination as to whether or not the information was factual. RB: Well, that is information that -- that was to see if it was part of misinformation or disinformation too? BE: Right. RB: Okay, so, in other words, you were just trying to see if they were catching on to stuff that we didn't know about, and stuff that we'd been feeding them that they were regurgitating, just to see if it was working? BE: Right. RB: Okay. The spy game? BE: Yeah. RB: Yeah, okay. BE: Essentially that's what it was. RB: All right. So, along comes this report, though what if you were analyzing the data from the Russians and listening post from wherever it is you're listening, how would you end up with this book? BE: Well, specifically my job was to analyze whatever came across my desk, and on this particular day the duty officer who brought us our daily assignments, which we signed for, brought this document in a diplomatic pouch and unsealed it there. I signed for it and I was in my little cubbyhole -- RB: Was that a mistake do you think? BE: Uh, I don't believe so. RB: Well, the reason I ask is, this is -- this was -- this particular document was more than just top secret, right? BE: Oh, very much higher than top secret. RB: So, why would such a document just end up in the hands of an unknown analyst somewhere in Britain -- BE: Well, I don't know that I was unknown, I was the best there was at the time -- RB: Well, all right, I don't want to impugn your work, nor your capabilities, the point is, that from the Pentagon's point of view you were just one more cog in a very big wheel -- BE: Yeah. RB: So, this kind of information is obviously shocking I suppose, to reality as we understand it, comes to you as an analyst. I think that it would seem rather odd that it would just sort of end up in your cubbyhole for analysis. I mean, it's not -- this ain't just any old document, right? BE: No, it wasn't any old document. I believe that there was a reason because there were some photographs which I had taken while in Vietnam. I was in Vietnam from 1970 to '72, and we had a recovery mission over in the jungles in Laos, a downed aircraft. And we were given the assignment to go into Laos and recover the aircraft and recover, if possible, surviving crew members, what they told us were flight recorders and those kind of thing, and which we did. We went in and we found the aircraft. It had not crashed. It was an extremely unusual situation. RB: How so? BE: Well, there was no crash damage to the surrounding jungle. The aircraft was not destroyed. It looked as though it had been placed there in the jungle by a great big giant hand. When we gained access to the aircraft, we went in through one of the hatches. When we gained access to the aircraft, the entire crew was still in their seats, strapped in their safety harnesses and mutilated. RB: Mutilated? BE: Mutilated. And originally we thought at that time that it was the work of VC. RB: Yeah, well it would be a reasonable thought, of course. What kind of a plane was it? BE: It -- we were told it was a B52 and I've always assumed it was. RB: Well, I mean, B52s are hard to mistake. BE: Yeah, it was a very large aircraft. RB: Yeah, well, a B52 everybody can recognize. I mean... BE: There's been some controversy over what it was over the past couple years, but in fact it was a B52. RB: So, a B52 was sitting in the jungle undamaged, no crash damage to the surrounding jungle growth, and as you say, looked like it had been taken and placed there by a giant hand from the sky... BE: A load of bombs in the bomb bays. RB: So, it was a B52. BE: And the crew, the entire crew was still in their jump suits. RB: Okay, now it seems that whatever happened, had happened instantaneously, but it didn't look like it had actually crashed so, the puzzle was, how did the plane this size end up in the jungle, not damaged, everybody in their flight suits, mutilated? BE: Well, we don't know -- RB: I mean, that must have been what you were thinking. BE: Well, that's true, but also you have to bear in mind that we were operating in enemy territory and we -- everybody get in and get out as fast as we could. RB: Yeah, but you did take photographs. BE: Oh yes, I did take the photographs, I collected dog tags. We found no survivors. We recovered the black boxes that were on aircraft, where we were told they were located. And then we placed satchel charges throughout the aircraft and destroyed it with the bodies in it. RB: Why would they do that? BE: Why would we do what? Destroy the aircraft? RB: Yeah. I mean, unless it was flyable, but even then how do you get it out of a jungle? BE: There were several hundred thousand tons of bombs on the thing -- RB: Ah, well, there you are, okay. But you blew it up in place with the bodies on board? BE: The bodies in it. We -- there was no possible way we could transport the bodies out. RB: Yeah, so they were listed as KIA, and that was that. BE: Killed in action. And -- we turned in the material that we got and -- the black boxes, the photographs and the dog tags and whatever records that we found on the aircraft to MAC-V headquarters in Saigon and we forgot about it. RB: Okay, it was just another mission. All right. Now, it's some years later, you're in London and along comes the Blue Book and your photos are in it. BE: Right. RB: Okay and it was -- do you think maybe that's why you got the book, 'cause it was -- some of it was yours? BE: It was -- it's very possible. At the time that we were sent in on the mission, all we were told was an aircraft went down. When I viewed the report, there was a report attached to the photographs which stated that the aircraft had been in radio contact with its base and that it reported that it was under attack by bright objects and then all of a sudden the radio transmissions died. RB: White objects. BE: Very bright objects. RB: Oh, bright objects. BE: Bright objects. RB: Glowing, bright objects and that was all they had. BE: Yeah. RB: I see. After that it was blank and then you got the call to go in and get the stuff. Okay, so it comes across your desk. I'm going to take a break and when we come back, we're going to pick it up what happened after that. RB: You -- you got the book and you took a look and saw what was in it. All right, as an analyst dealing with top secret information all the time, what made this -- what happened when you saw all of this, I mean, as an analyst, what was your responses as you, Bill English, what was your response? BE: Well, as an analyst, I wasn't sure what I was looking at. As Bill English, I was pretty -- pretty incredulous until I started taking a closer look at the material that was in it. RB: And what did you see, what did you find? BE: Well, among other -- among other things there were various technical reports and reports from very well known people, among them was Dr. J. Allen Hynek. I remember Hynek's comments very -- very clearly. He stated that although he had not seen the physical evidence firsthand, based on the report that he had seen, he felt that it was true. RB: That what was true? BE: That the report and the material within the report was true. RB: And the material was again, was the information on the physical evidence of these, whatever they were. BE: Right. RB: Yeah. What did the book assume all of this was? I mean, what did it? BE: Well, there was no assumption at all, it clearly stated that this was material that had been recovered from various crash sites around the country and several South American and European nations. It very clearly stated that it was of alien origin, not of this Earth. RB: Oh, and so it said that this was from outer space? BE: Right. RB: And didn't make any bones about it? BE: None whatsoever. RB: Okay, so there you are, incredulously saying, "My God, the government says there really are UFOs and here's the pictures and all the locations of physical evidence to prove it." So, again, how do you get to be the fugitive? BE: Well, essentially what happened was, after I analyzed the document, I turned in my report as per regulations. Signed the document back over to the officer of the day and promptly forgot about it. RB: And promptly forgot about it? BE: Well, as much as I was able to. You know, we didn't discuss our work -- RB: No, I understand. That's a professional requirement. But incredulity doesn't lead to just forget about it. BE: Uh, no, but you don't talk about things like that and you just sort of mull it over and then you get on with your life. As best you're able. RB: Okay. BE: About two weeks after viewing the document, I reported for work one morning and was told that the base commander wanted to see me and was escorted there by two air security policemen. After waiting for, I guess about thirty or forty minutes, I was escorted into the BC's office, and uh -- RB: That's the base commander. BE: Base commander. And -- was promptly informed by him that my services were no longer needed and that I was being returned to the United States. RB: Um hmm. Any reason given? BE: Not -- not then. I promptly replied -- you know, because at that time -- my wife at that time was a schoolteacher for Department of Defense schools at RAF Chicksands, and I promptly informed him that since technically if I was no longer employed by the government I became a dependent husband. Because she was employed by Department of Defense schools that I'd just go home. And he politely informed me, in no uncertain terms that I was being removed from Great Britain and sent back to the United States. And I then asked him if I could please call my wife and let her know what was going on -- RB: Now you -- they meant to return you immediately? BE: Immediately. RB: You mean that -- that afternoon? BE: That day. RB: My. Normally things don't work that fast in the military that I remember. BE: Me either, but when I asked to call my wife at the school, where she was at, at the time, I was told no. RB: Now, had you figured that something was amiss, that you were being treated this way for something you allegedly had done? BE: I didn't know what to think at the time, because my efficiency reports at that point were very good. I'd had no problems in my job whatsoever. RB: So -- but you had to assume something was going on here. BE: Well, I did. And I asked you know -- you know, okay, what's the problem. Have I broken a regulation or something, and he said no, your services are no longer needed, period. And you're being sent back to the States. RB: Right now. BE: Right now. RB: Right bloody now. BE: Right. And when I requested permission to call my wife at the school to let her know what was happening, permission was refused. And I was escorted by two air security policemen to RAF Lakeinheath [sp] where I was put on an immediate flight. RB: You didn't even get to pack. BE: Not even. RB: Not even a toothbrush. BE: Not even. RB: (whistles.) Boy, so you were flown back to the states -- BE: Flown back to the states -- RB: Okay and again -- BE: (unintelligible.) RB: Okay so what happens to make you the fugitive? I mean, so far it's begun to build up to something, but -- BE: Well, uh, at this point I didn't know quite what to do and had tried several times to contact my family directly and then through friends, and at all turns I was thwarted. RB: They wouldn't let you contact your family? BE: Uh, no, every time I tried to call -- call my home in England, the -- a man's voice would answer. And I was told that those individuals were no longer there. RB: Well, and of course you wanted to know -- well where are they? BE: Yeah and of -- and they hung up on me. RB: I see. BE: And then when I tried contacting friends that lived in England -- who knew my wife and asked them to pass a message on to her, they -- I would call their phone number and the same man's voice would answer. RB: Uh huh. I see. BE: By this time I had met a gentleman by the name of Stanton Friedman who is a fairly well known investigator of the phenomena, and told him my story, what was going on and everything and Jim Lorenzen and the head of APRO at that time very graciously made his records available to me -- RB: I would think at this time you would get an attorney. BE: Well, it was a pretty confusing situation. RB: Well, yeah, but I mean, you're being -- you're being taken immediately out of country, not even to contact your family, how -- I don't know how many weeks it was that they wouldn't let you get in contact with your family. They're obviously distraught. You're distraught. It seems to me that you -- the first thing you'd want to do is to get an attorney to see what the heck's going on here -- BE: We tried and every time I did, no attorney would touch it. RB: No attorney would touch it? BE: No attorney would touch it, they would -- RB: Did you go to the press with this sort of stuff? BE: Well, uh -- RB: I mean, this is not -- this is not ordinary, everyday behavior for the government is it, I mean -- BE: No, it's not. And I didn't go to the press, I went to my father. RB: Uh huh. And how could he help? BE: Well, my father at that time was a member of the Arizona State Legislature. RB: Okay. BE: And we were friends of -- our family was friends of the Barry Goldwater family. And we asked if they could look into it, and I have letters in my file right now which Goldwater had sent back to us, stating quite frankly, he was told to mind his own business. RB: Now, he happens to be a reserve general in the Air Force. BE: Right. RB: Well, and he was also a U.S. Senator at that time. To have him mind his own business is a little extraordinary. BE: Well, he was -- RB: I mean, I -- it is his business, isn't it? I mean to find out what's going on in the military? BE: I would think so. But, he was, he got letters and he was flat out told to mind his own business and stay out of it or he would regret it. RB: That he would regret it? BE: Uh huh. RB: Did you see the letters sent to him? BE: I have copies of the letters in my files. RB: That he would regret -- and from whence came those letters? BE: Uh -- RB: From the Pentagon? BE: No, they're -- according to Senator Goldwater at the time, he went directly and asked for information. RB: He went directly to what, the English base? BE: No. The Department of Defense. RB: Okay, the Pentagon. BE: The Pentagon. Was told to mind his own business. RB: And he got these letters saying -- as such, right? BE: Now, well these are letters that he sent to me. RB: Uh huh. And he got -- and you got copies of letters that were sent to him telling to butt out? BE: Right. RB: Who were they signed by? BE: Umm, there is no signature as far as I could tell. These letters were letters that he had written to me. RB: Oh, I see, I see. So you don't have the copies of the actual letters he received -- BE: Actual letters, no. RB: So meanwhile, your family is still in England, hidden someplace. For how long is it by now? BE: Well, now it's -- it was -- it's been almost fifteen years. RB: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Your family has been missing for fifteen years? BE: Uh, up until a week ago. RB: Up until a week ago? BE: I'm very pleased to say that there is -- there is a happy ending to part of the story. RB: Well this is too bizarre for words. You'd -- you were -- fifteen years and you've just been reunited with your wife and children after fifteen years? BE: Fifteen years. I met my sons and my wife yesterday morning. RB: My god, then I've got to ask the question. What -- did they tell you what the hell happened? BE: Well -- RB: I mean, where have they been for fifteen years? BE: Fifteen years they've been in England. RB: Yeah, but I mean under the protection of some -- BE: Well, uh, according to my wife, what happened was, is that I didn't come home and she called over to work to find out what was going on. They referred her to the base commander's office and the base commander, according to her, informed her that I walked in, turned in my resignation and requested an immediate flight out of the country. RB: I see. BE: And she assumed at that point that I had deserted the family. RB: Why would she assume that? BE: Well, you go to work in the morning and you come home and you find your husband not there and -- RB: No, I got to tell you something. The last thing I'd assume if my wife didn't show up is that she was abandoning. I mean, the thing is to say, this is bizarre, what the hell's going on here? BE: Well, this is what she told me what they had told her. RB: I'm sure they -- whatever they said, but it's your wife. I mean, to readily assume that that was, that she -- that you'd abandon her, I mean, why would she assume that? BE: Well, I really don't know at that point. You know, I can't speak for what happened from her end other than what she's told me took place, but very shortly -- RB: But what about the idea when you called to reach her and the strange man's voice. What was that all about? BE: According to her, she never received any phone calls from me. RB: Well, you never talked to her that's -- BE: Weeks and weeks, and -- RB: Didn't you write letters? BE: Oh, I wrote several dozen letters. RB: She never got one? BE: Never got 'em. RB: Never got 'em. BE: Never got 'em. RB: Okay. So, she -- you were reunited just yesterday? BE: Just yesterday. RB: And so she's been there for fifteen years, and you've never been able to contact her that whole time. Didn't you ever go back to England? BE: No, because my passport was revoked. RB: I see. For what reason? BE: There was a question about my birth certificate. RB: Why, what's wrong with your birth certificate? BE: Well, according to the government, the birth certificate, which I had originally submitted for my passport application, was invalid. RB: Why? BE: Well, it was a hospital birth certificate, which was issued in 1952. And not a state birth certificate. And when we tried to find a state birth certificate in Albuquerque or Santa Fe, because I was born in New Mexico, there was one -- there was nothing there. RB: In other words, according to state records, you were never born? BE: Right. RB: Interesting. All right, so now -- your wife is back and now you've -- kind of pieced together that end. Meanwhile though, you've suddenly ended up being, kind of, again, as they say, kind of the guy on the run. How -- you're back here in the country, what happened that made you the guy on the run? BE: Well, about two years after I returned from England, I managed to get my life somewhat together and then opened up a small business in Tucson, Arizona. And one day, in walk Colonel Robert Black, who was then base commander at RAF Chicksands, and his operations Sergeant Stone. RB: Is this the guy that fired you? BE: This is the guy who fired me. RB: Uh huh. And this is -- this is then two years later, after that incident. BE: Right. RB: Okay. He strolls in with his Sarg. BE: Right. RB: Okay. BE: They tell me that they were cashiered out of the service and forced to retire early. -- RB: Sort of like what happened to you? BE: Yeah, and primarily because of the documents that I had viewed. And we sat and talked about it. Among other things they had told me that they were separated from their families and this, that and the other and they knew what was going on. And among other things that they told me was the fact that they had information which said that there was a UFO buried at White Sands Missile Test Range. RB: Uh huh. BE: The reason why it was there, and it was buried was because it was too big to transport. RB: All right. BE: And after a great deal of discussion, they convinced me that it would might not be a bad idea to try and find evidence of this UFO and make it public. RB: That would not be a bad idea. BE: Well, I sort of agreed with them at the time and I ultimately sold my business and put the money that I got out of the business into the pot, so to speak, and we purchased a vehicle which we outfitted with sand tires and camping equipment and we brought a radar -- a marine radar unit from a marine shop and put it on the van and we had sound detectors and magnetometers and everything and metal detectors and camping gear. RB: Okay. So, then you're heading to White Sands. BE: And we were heading to New Mexico. RB: All right, so you get down to White Sands, and how did you get on the reservation? I -- BE: Well, several locations. We went all up and down both sides and the top of the missile range perimeter. And on several locations we crossed through the fences and very briefly looked around and everything and ultimately we wound up White Sands -- wound up at White Sands National Park. The monument. Back in those days, you used to be able to go out onto the -- out onto the sand dunes at night and camp out. Since then, they no longer do that. But ultimately we went into the National Park and kept on going across the dunes with this sand vehicle that we had outfitted, crossed through the fences north of the national monument and went directly onto the range. Very stupidly, I might add, but in any case, it was about sundown and we were sort of travelling along. I was outside of the van with the metal detector and -- in front of the van lights and they were in the van and I heard a very familiar old sound from Vietnam and just immediately went face first into the dirt. RB: Incoming. BE: Yeah, exactly. And the next thing I know the van is confetti. RB: Is what? BE: Confetti. I mean this thing was just blown to pieces. RB: Uh huh. So -- BE: And then it -- RB: So it was hit with an explosive. BE: Uh, hit with -- with a missile of some kind. RB: Uh huh. BE: And I'm not proud because I'll admit to you that it scared me badly and I took off at a dead run. RB: Well, that's understandable. BE: And, -- I eventually made my way off the range and was able to hitchhike back to Tucson, Arizona. RB: Okay. And hold that because we have to take a break and I guess at this point I guess you are now on the run. BE: At this point, I am just about to go on the run. RB: Okay, you got back to Tucson. You hitchhiked back from Arizona, from White Sands, New Mexico down to Tucson, and then what? BE: Well, I wound up at a friend's house who's another UFO investigator by the name of Wendell Stevens. And almost drowned in his pool trying to find my way to his backyard. And Wendell, much to his credit, when I was scratching on the window, let me in without sticking a gun up my nose. And I told him what had happened and he fed me and let me shower and gave me a shirt and took me back to my apartment in Tucson. RB: Now when -- when -- when was this? BE: This is 1979. RB: Okay. '79. Okay, so you're there kinda getting yourself put back together. BE: Yeah, and telling Wendell what was going on. And Wendell took me back to my apartment, and we came to my apartment, there was a big black car parked in front of the apartment. So I asked Wendell to drop me off about two blocks down, and I snuck in through the back door, through the alley. And for three days I kept looking out the curtain window and there this car sat. Until finally, one day I called a friend and packed my stuff, and moved out and rented a trailer on the east side of Tucson and sold everything off and bought a backpack and some camping equipment and took off. RB: And, was on the run. BE: Was on the run. RB: All right. Now let's go to the telephone. Derek in Denver: Derek: 7 seconds before it's on the radio. RB: Seven seconds? What? Derek: Oh, oops, Hi Rick. RB: Hi Derek. Derek: Hello. RB: Go ahead, Bill's -- Bill's on the other side there. Derek: Hi Bill. I just wanted to ask you a quick question and then I'll hang up. You know, can you touch UFOs? BE: I don't know. I personally have never touched one. I've heard of -- I've got several -- several hundred case reports of people who say that they have, so I -- I personally, I don't know but I would assume that you can. RB: Well, if it's made of mass of some solid object, I guess you can touch a solid object. Do you mean can he touch it when it's -- cause of radiation, or what? Derek: No, just like, touch it, like, you how -- you know, like how you touch a person. RB: Yeah, you mean like a solid object. Derek: Yeah. RB: Yeah, a solid -- in other words, is it a solid object? Derek: Yeah. RB: I guess, what's -- the answer is yes. Derek: All right Rick, thanks. RB: All right Derek. And let's go to Bill in Denver. Bill: Yes, you know, this sounds almost like we need the zither in Orson Welles with the third man theme. RB: Yeah, it sure does. Bill: And remember our friend John, Rick. Years ago? RB: Oh yes, of course I do. Anyway, go ahead and ask Bill a question. Bill: Well, it isn't a matter of asking the question, uh, it's a matter -- I don't know of any Mt. Rainier in Maryland. As a matter of fact, when I was in Maryland, I never saw a mountain in Maryland. Mt. Rainier is in Washington. BE: You're absolutely right and I stand corrected. It is in Washington. Bill: The man that first saw them was a fellow named Kenneth Arnold. I instructed the civilian flight instructor with Cabbage Hill [sp] in Pendleton. And I don't know what Ken was drinking that day but he had quite a mysterious thing, of course they wrote stories in Argosy, Henry Wismer, the newsman was saying, you know, we know what it is, it's good news, it's our ships and everything else. When in fact they didn't know squat. And as you know Rick, I have a little bit of history with respect to the posture like Barry Goldwater's. And I just -- I've known Barry Goldwater for years and I can't imagine anybody telling that man something like that. BE: We found that's astounding too, but I've got his letters. RB: Did you ever talk to the senator directly, and say, Senator, that you're being told to butt out? BE: I haven't, but Senator Goldwater did appear on Larry King show and he told Larry King that he had -- later on had asked for permission to go into a storage facility located at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and permission was denied. Bill: I don't know how the hell you deny a man like that permission to do whatever he wants to do. BE: I have no idea, but he was flat out told no. Bill: Were you by chance with DIA? BE: No, I wasn't. Bill: You weren't. Because all of the trappings and all the traces that you talk about, monitoring the radio broadcasts, radio books and this type thing, smacks of what I used to do when I was the DIA. BE: It was a division of NSA. Bill: It was division of NSA. RB: All right. Bill: You know George Keagan. You remember George Keagan? BE: The name is familiar. Bill: George Keagan was the Air Force general, George Keagan. He was the one that was stomping for particle beam weapons and thought, of course, that the Russians had been here for years. This is about as viable, I think, as -- do you recall a story of Paul Mantell? BE: Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. Bill: I knew Paul Mantell. Paul Mantell allegedly had a P51 blasted out of the sky. I've flown P51s, I've instructed for P51s and P51s don't get blasted out of the sky. When a man thinks he sees something that he can't climb fast enough to get, and he climbs fast enough -- or climbs as fast as he can in a P51, it has a tendency to stall. And when it stalls it goes into an incredibly sickening flat spin. And when it hits the ground, there's not much left of it. BE: Well, isn't that what they -- what the official report was that happened to him? Bill: I think it was. He was a National Guard pilot. I think in Montana or Minnesota. RB: Well, nevertheless, your point is, is that he didn't get zapped, he just went into a spin and crashed. Bill: You know, it still sounds like H.G. Welles and it sounds like Star Trek and -- RB: But, it's interesting, isn't it? Bill: Well, I don't know whether it is or not. You know, Little Orphan Annie is interesting if you don't mind Sandy going Arf! Arf! RB: No, Bill, you see, you're trying to mistake reality with entertainment. Bill: Well, last time I saw entertainment, the sheriff closed it, you know before the -- RB: Well, see, and Lord knows I'm trying to keep ahead of the sheriff Bill. Bill: Okay, Rick. RB: Okay. Talk to you later. And let's continue on the telephone with, let's see, where do we go from here, he said. Let's go to Jean in Cap Hill. Hi Jean. Jean: Yes, I'm sorry to have to ask this, but I missed the very first part of it and I just wondered if you could please reiterate for me what was so dangerous about what you read. The general gist of it that would make it so they would do this to you. BE: Well, I believe that it was classified information that was not intended to be released and they were afraid that I would make it public. Jean: Well, I mean what was the gist of this classified information? RB: UFOs. Jean: But, why is -- why was that information so much dangerous than any other that has come out? BE: Well, essentially what it was, was the government admitting that the UFOs existed and that they had physical evidence of it. And that they had been lying to the people for years and years and years. In the past, a lot of people have referred to this as a Cosmic Watergate. And can you imagine the difficulties it would cause if the government was to come out tomorrow and admit that, yeah there are UFOs and yes, we've known about them for years and we've covered it up to the point where we've even committed murder. RB: There's your answer Jean. Jean: All right. Thank you. RB: Okay. In Colorado Springs, Jeff. You're on with my guest, Bill English. Jeff: Yes, thanks Bill. I just wanted to know if you're going to be speaking anywhere in the Denver area soon. BE: No, I haven't been invited, but I am going to be speaking in Orlando, Florida at the end of August at Walt Disney World. RB: Walt Disney World? BE: Walt Disney World. RB: Fascinating. Jeff: Well, how long are you going to be in the area? BE: Well, I'll be in Orlando for a week -- Jeff: Oh, I see, you're calling from there. RB: No, he's not. Right now he's in Tucson. BE: I'm in Arizona. Jeff: I tuned in late, okay. RB: You should never tune in late, you miss so much. Jeff: Now -- now Rick, on your show a couple of months ago, I heard where this person announced that he was going to be coming out with a special on abductions. Do you know anything about that Bill, and why there was a delay on that? BE: Which -- Jeff: It's supposed to be in -- It was supposed to be this last February -- BE: There have been so many different programs on abductions in the last several months it's -- I'm having a difficult time pinning it down. Jeff: It particularly pertained to MJ-12 and -- BE: That would probably be Bob Lazar on Current Affairs. Jeff: Oh, well, yeah -- do you know of the latest on that situation? BE: Uh, well, the latest is that we have been able to prove that Bob Lazar did in fact work at Los Alamos. We've got -- RB: You better fill us in now, you've brought him up. Jeff: I'm sorry about that. I'm going to let you guys go, but that's an extremely interesting story and please do Bill, please explain Bob Lazar in detail. RB: All right. Okay. Bob Lazar in de -- well Bob Lazar not quite in detail. BE: Bob Lazar is a gentleman who claimed he worked for the government at a test site in Nevada of the Atomic Energy Commission range in a place called area 51 S4. And he claimed that part of his job was to work as a physicist and analyze and test fly UFOs that the government had captured. At first, his claims were pretty outlandish and were thought to be, but he passed two out of three lie detector tests. We were able to determine that he did in fact work at Los Alamos National Laboratories. Two ways. One, his name was listed in the Los Alamos phone book, in the physics department. And I personally went up to Los Alamos and visited the Ray Bradbury science museum up there. And there was a picture of Bob Lazar out on display called the Los Alamos employees in the community. RB: So, suffice to say he used to work there. BE: He used to work there. We have not been able to make any real determination as to whether or not he worked in area S4 or area 51. This is more popularly known at the Nevada test site, however, recently Bob did receive a W2 form from the Navy for that time period he says he worked at that area. RB: So, he was there. So what happened to Bob? BE: Maybe he was, yeah. RB: What happened to Bob? BE: Well, Bob is currently living in Las Vegas. He is on probation. RB: For what? BE: Well, when all this stuff became public and George Knapp aired the initial report on local television in Las Vegas, Bob was arrested because he installed a business computer system in a house of ill repute. And he was charged with criminal solicitation. RB: I see. I see, okay. So, -- BE: Installed a business -- business machine in a whore house. RB: Well, then, that'll get you every time. Let's go back to the telephone. In Oklahoma, Gene. Gene: Hi Rick. I'd like to ask your guest, what's his name? RB: Bill English. Gene: Okay. Have you heard of an author, and he was in the Air Force, in Australia by the name of Stan Deyo? BE: Yeah as a matter of fact I have. He wrote a book about Australia and UFOs. Gene: Cosmic Conspiracy? BE: Uh huh. Gene: Okay. Is he pretty valid? He had some really weird things to say. BE: Well, uh. He's about as valid as you can get under the circumstances. Gene: His stories sound something like yours other than the kidnapping and things, or so called. He was working a lot with low frequency soundwaves and magnetic fields for steering UFOs. Pretty interesting book, but I used to sell books and I had to give mine away and then I had a real hard time getting that book again. RB: All right. All right Gene. Thanks a lot. 623-8585, the number in Denver, Gene. Gene: Hello Rick. RB: Yeah, you're on. Gene: Yeah, really is that a -- Sir, you are a very unusual man. BE: Thank you. I'm not sure whether that's a curse or a compliment. Gene: That's a compliment sir. As recently as your last encounter with some of the people who are -- you are leaving behind in going, God knows where, what were they like when they - - before you picked up these files. Were they like -- RB: They, being the government? Gene: They being the government on the -- on the -- you know, where you used to work at -- RB: You mean, in England? Gene: In England, yeah. RB: Where he worked with his colleagues and the base and all that jazz. And you want to know were they -- everything was on the up and up and suddenly everything went weird, right? Is that the question? Gene: Yeah, I mean, what like -- did they put it as a plant to get you to do this? RB: To see if they could get rid of him. Gene: To get rid of you. BE: You know, throughout the years I've always said that's it's a possibility that the material that I viewed was fraudulent, but I don't think it was. RB: In other words, it was put there so they could have an excuse to dump you? But what an elaborate scheme to do so. BE: I don't think it was put there as an excuse to dump me. I think, if anything, it possibly could have been an elaborate plan to create this information. RB: Uh huh. By the government? BE: By the government. RB: Well, then if they're going to do that, we'd have told everybody about the copy 13 and then we'd all read it and say, see how silly it is. BE: Well, that's possible, but like I said before, I don't believe it was. Gene: Oh, I've been out to New Mexico. RB: Yeah, well, so have I, but anyway. 623-8585. Joe in Greeley. Hi. Joe: Hi. I wanted to ask him -- Bill English, that's his name? RB: That's his name, yeah. Joe: I've read something, I don't remember where it was at, but it was something on a hangar. Where the government had a crashed UFO. They took the bodies to this thing -- BE: You're referring to -- RB: Hangar 18. BE: Hangar 18. Joe: That's it. I just wanted to know the validity of that? BE: There is no such thing as Hanger 18. However, there is a Hangar 13. RB: And that's at Wright-Pat, isn't it? BE: That's at Wright-Patterson and that's -- RB: And that's in, what, Ohio? BE: Uh-huh. RB: Yeah. BE: And that's where they -- it's reputed they've been storing this. We did come across information about a year ago from a gentleman who was at Wright-Patterson when they brought the material from Roswell there, who claim that he was invited to view the bodies. [end of tape, nearly end of interview.] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** EOF ** Don -- <*> Don Allen <*> 1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS dona@bilver.uucp - Internet 1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight 88:4205/1.1 - MUFON Network 1:3607/20.2 -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Vallee's Revelations Message-ID: <140416.2ACE2415@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 3 Oct 92 22:27:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Having read the last 4 or 5 of Vallee's books, I would tend to agree > that > he holds unorthodox theories and is *highly* opinionated. The idea that > he > might be wrong just goes with the territory. His theories are as unorthodox as the phenomena, which is what is needed to acquire some ability to understand some of what may be going on. I find this type of approach much more refreshing than the standard "aliens coming to earth" stuff that we hear so much about. If this were the case, where is the proof? Surely, after all of these years, we would have some confirmation of this. Quite the contrary. The same holds true of the abduction phenomenon. Are "they" really building genetic samples, etc? I would say not. There are too many inconsistencies in the abduction scenarios. A simple explanation is not even near forthcoming since this represents a very complicated set of circumstances. What I find the most interesting thing about Vallee is that he is a scientist who is challenging his colleagues to think in the unorthodox fashion. All we have to do is to look around us and we can see that science has failed miserably at this whole thing. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51536 alt.alien.visitors:9930 talk.rumors:3299 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!lasner From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: <1992Oct4.084212.10537@news.columbia.edu> Sender: usenet@news.columbia.edu (The Network News) Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) Organization: Columbia University References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 08:42:12 GMT Lines: 14 In article jay@deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim) writes: >In article <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca>, Morgan Burke writes: > >> Personally, I think it's a secret code of some sort. Any ideas or >> suggestions as to its real meaning? > >We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you. > >jay@deepthot.cary.nc.us You aren't by any chance a graduate of Winston University? cj "we will find you and we will kill you" l Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11979 alt.alien.visitors:9931 sci.skeptic:31999 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!news From: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Nicea and dogma etc. Message-ID: Date: 4 Oct 92 10:09:31 GMT References: <67114@cup.portal.com> <0qB4RB2w164w@uuisis.isis.org> Reply-To: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk Organization: Chemical & Process Engineering Dept, University of Newcastle, UK. Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: celos doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes: >The Thomist Church of India, which claims to have been founded by St. >Thomas himself (as solid a claim as the Catholics' claim to St. Peter) >has no notion of Trintity at all. >If you want to look this up in the Encyclopedia, check out "Monophysite >Controversy". Or even "Monophysite Heresy". That's what the Trinitarians >(who won) called the other side. Their argument is that God is one, not >three. How true is it that the Monophysites were strongest in the Middle East, so when the Arabs conquered the area the people found it much easier to adopt Islam than people in the Balkans and Spain, where trinitarianism was widely held? And if Monophsites were much more common in Palastine/Syria area does this have anything to do with the fact that this area was closer to the original area of Jesus's first (ie Jewish) followers, who would perhaps hold Jewish influenced beliefs rather than the Greek and Roman influence beliefs which would be more popular outside this area? If the brothers of Jesus did dominate the Jerusalem Church at a time when Paul dominated the area outside Syria/Palistine, then maybe this would explain why many in that are did not adopt trinitarianism. For it is probably easier for a complete stranger to believe someone is a God than someone who grew up with them. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!moxie!anna From: anna@moxie.hou.tx.us (Anna Anderson) Subject: NASA TO BEGIN SEARCH FOR INHABITED PLANETS Message-ID: <1992Oct4.132953.22159@moxie.hou.tx.us> Sender: anna@moxie.hou.tx.us (Anna Anderson) Organization: University of Houston Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 13:29:53 GMT Lines: 294 > From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) > Subject: HRMS Press Kit > Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro > Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:57:16 GMT NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION HIGH RESOLUTION MICROWAVE SURVEY (HRMS) PRESS KIT OCTOBER 1992 PUBLIC AFFAIRS CONTACTS NASA HEADQUARTERS, WASHINGTON, D.C. Office of Space Science and Applications Michael Braukus (Phone: 202/358-1547) Ames Research Center, Mountain View, Calif. Michael Mewhinney (Phone: 415/604-9000) Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Mary Hardin (Phone: 818/354-5011) CONTENTS General Release 1 Media Services Information 3 Quick-Look Facts. 4 Project History 5 Project Objectives 6 Targeted Search 7 Sky Survey 9 Signal Detection Plans 10 Project Management. 11 RELEASE: 92-161 NASA TO BEGIN SEARCH FOR INHABITED PLANETS On Oct. 12, NASA will begin the most comprehensive search ever conducted for evidence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. The search will use telescopes and antennas to detect radio transmissions from other planetary systems. The search will commence 500 years after Columbus landed in North America. "In the first few minutes, more searching will be accomplished than in all previous searches combined," according to Dr. John Billingham of NASA's Ames Research Center, Mountain View, Calif. "Over the past few decades, " Billingham added, "scientific opinion has increasingly supported the theory that complex life may have evolved on planets orbiting other stars in the galaxy and the universe. In some cases, further evolution may have led to the emergence of intelligence, culture and technology." Billingham, the program chief at Ames, said the High Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS) consists of two parts -- a Targeted Search and a Sky Survey. The Targeted Search will use the largest available radio telescopes around the world to search the frequency range from 1,000 to 3,000 megahertz, seeking a variety of patterns that may indicate the presence of an artificially generated signal. A megahertz is a unit of frequency equal to one million cycles per second. The Targeted Search will perform the most sensitive search ever conducted of solar-type stars less than 100 light-years distant. The Targeted Search begins from the world's largest radio telescope at the National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center's Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico. It is operated for the National Science Foundation by Cornell University. The Sky Survey will use the 34-meter antennas at NASA's Deep Space Network sites in the northern and southern hemispheres to scan the entire sky over the frequency range from 1,000 to 10,000 megahertz. The Sky Survey begins at the Goldstone, Calif., site. "Because of the large increase in the area of sky and frequencies covered, a signal will have to be stronger to be detected by the Sky Survey," Billingham said. "But it could detect signals emitted in distant regions from directions that would be overlooked if the search were limited to nearby solar- type stars," he added. Both elements of the HRMS are using specially developed digital signal processing systems capable of simultaneously analyzing tens of millions of radio frequency channels. The HRMS is managed by NASA's Ames Research Center, which also is responsible for the Targeted Search project. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., is responsible for the Sky Survey. The HRMS is part of NASA's Toward Other Planetary Systems program in the Solar System Exploration Division, Office of Space Science and Applications at NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C. - end - MEDIA SERVICES INFORMATION NASA Select Television Transmissint on Oct. 12, 1992. Video footage of the HRMS deployment will be taken for documentary and archival purposes. Media Coverage Those interested in attending the initial deployment at Arecibo on Oct. 12, contact Michael Mewhinney at NASA Ames Research Center by calling 415/604-9000. Those wishing to attend the initial deployment at Goldstone, Calif., contact Mary Hardin at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory by calling 818/354-5011. Because of limited parking, use of private vehicles at both sites will be restricted. Buses will be available at both locations to transport reporters. Reportt the press desks at either the Holiday Inn, Barstow, Calif., or the Hyatt Dorado Beach Hotel, Dorado, Puerto Rico, for transportation and admissionhis telescope is operated for the National Science Foundation by Cornell University. The new 34-meter (112- foot diameter) antenna at NASA's Goldstone Deep Space Communications Complex near Barstow, Calif., will be used for the Sky Survey. Time of Deployment: Targeted Search at 3 p.m. EDT, Arecibo, Puerto Rico; Sky Survey at noon PDT, Goldstone, Calif. Project Duration: Expected to last until about 2001. PROJECT HISTORY The Earth is the only location known to harbor life. But as knowledge of the nature of lhere may, in the long run, be one of science's most important and most profound contributions to mankind and to our civilization." Also in 1972, NASA published its first report describing how NASA-developed technology could make such a search possible. In the years between 1972 and 1988, NASA maintained a low- level research and development activity that resulted in the initiation of the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Microwave Observing Project (MOP) in FY 1989. In 1992, NASA established the High Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS) as part of the Toward Other Planetary Systems (TOPS) program within NASA's Solar System Exploration Division. The Sky Survey (scanning the entire sky for strong signals coming from any direction) will begin observations at noon PDT using a 34-meter antenna at NASA's Goldstone Deep Space Communications Complex near Barstow, Calif. PROJECT OBJECTIVES The detection and characterization of planetary systems around other stars is the goal of NASA's Toward Other Planetary Systems (TOPS) program. Earth's solar system is still the only known example of a planetary system, and Earth is the only known planet that sustains life. Recent astrophysical observations suggest the existence of other planetary systems around distant stars. The existence of these systems could support the hypothesis that lifts TOPS program to include a new project called the High Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS). The project will observe the microwave region of the electromagnetic spectrum in a manner that can detect signals produced by a distant technology. Potentially, there are billions of solar systems in the Milky Way galaxy at tremendous distances from Ear provide for an expanded comparative study of the universe. TARGETED SEARCH Scientists at NASA's Ames Research Center will conduct the Targeted Search portion of the HRMS. The Targeted Search will examine 1,000 nearby solar-type stars within 100 light years distance from Earth (one light year is approximately 5.9 trillion miles). The objective is to test the hypothesis that extraterrestrial technologies are transmitting radio signals whose characteristics are greatly different from natural sources of radio emissile sensitivity, the largest available radio telescopes will be used to conduct the Targeted Search. The number of targets covered will be much larger than previous searches, and the range of frequencies covered will be thousands of times greater than all previous searches combined. To accomplish this, specialized digital signal processing equipment has been constructed to listen for microwave radio transmissions reaching the Earth from distant planetary systems. The specialized digital signal processing equipment will simultaneously study the radio spectrum over tens of millions of individual frequency channels, at spectral resolutions ranging from 1, 2, 4, 7, 14 and 28 helses, a likely form of interstellar transmission. An automatic data analysis subsystem will be used to detect the presence of fixed frequency or drifting continuous wave (CW) signals or sequences of regularly spaced pulses. The Targeted Search will use the National Science Foundation's National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center's 305-meter (1,000-ft) diameter radio telescope located at the Arecibo Observatory near Arecibo, Puerto Rico, for the initial deployment of the HRMS on Oct. 12, 1992. Theng very large observations of each target at each frequency. It will serve as the logistical hub of the HRMS Targeted Search. Over the next 3 years, three more such systems will be built and packaged into two mobile research facility trailers for air transport to the observation sites. SKY SURVEY The NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., will conduct the Sky Survey portion of NASA's HRMS to search for radio signals from other planetary systems. The Sky Survey will scan all directions of the sky to cover a wide range of frequencies from 1,000 to 10,000 megahertz. NASA's HRMS will conduct a comprehensive, systematic search of a portion of the microwave radio spectrum to detect evidence of radio transmissions from other planetary systems. An intentionally transmitted signal is easiest to detect in a frequency band where the background radio noise or static is minimal. One of the quietest frequency bands is the "microwave window," which lies between 1,000 and 10,000 megahertz. Since thstic of microwave ally mapping small areas of the sky, called sky frames. As the observations are completed, over the entire sky. For each of 31 frequency bands, the sky is divided into sevplex of NASA's Deep Space Network in California's Mojave Desert. Toward the latter part of the survey, the search will move to a The prototype receiver, spectrum analyzer and signal processor will break up incomiwith 40 megahertz total bandwidth or a dual polarization mode with 20 megahertz total bandwidth. Specially designed digital hardware, operating at supercomputer speeds, will simultaneously process the 2 million channels to identify and separate intersterch organizations. After the discovery has been verified, national and international authorities are to be informed. News of the confirmed discovery then will be disseminated promptly, openly and widely through scientific channels and the news media. All data necessary for the confirmation of the detection will be made available to the international scientific community through publications, meetings, conferences and other appropriate means. No response to any confirmed signal will be sent from Earth until appropriate international consultations have occurred. PROJECT MANAGEMENT NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C. Dr. Wesley Huntress Director, Solar System Exploration Division Dr. Nicholas Renzetti Manager, Telecommunications and Data Acquisition Science Complex Goldstone Deep Space Communications Complex Dr. Michael J. Klein JPL SETI Project Manager and HRMS Sky Survey Manager Dr. Samuel Gulkis HRMS Deputy Project Scientist J. Richard Kolden HRMS Sky Survey Implementation Manager Arecibo Observatory, Puerto Rico Dr. Daniel Altschuler Director ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Einstein's brain is stored /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | in a mason jar in a lab |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | in Wichita, Kansas. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Vote - final results Message-ID: Date: 4 Oct 92 14:50:17 GMT Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 12 I should like to remind you all that the voting period HAS ENDED. It would be, therefore, a good idea to stop sending votes, at least until we start another vote for something else, or we decide to repeat this one. As of 0500 GMT Monday, 5 October 1992, the address Earth@ed.ac.uk will be removed from this system. Mail sent to that address will therefore bounce with an "Address unknown". -- The Clone of Claudio Calvelli Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11980 alt.alien.visitors:9934 sci.skeptic:32009 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Nicea and dogma etc. Message-ID: <1992Oct4.180512.2529@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <67114@cup.portal.com> <0qB4RB2w164w@uuisis.isis.org> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:05:12 GMT Lines: 26 In article <0qB4RB2w164w@uuisis.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes: >The Nicean Ecumenical Council of A.D. 319, was called by the Emperor >Constantine to settle the status of Jesus and invent the Trinity. Well, >not quite invent, but turn it from controversy into dogma. > >But as for re-writing the Bible, it's text was fixed a couple of >generations earlier. I don't recall anything from Nicea that disputes >the canon of the Bible. It's generally held that the New Testament Canon was fixed (not counting later Protestant/Catholic disputes) by the Epistle of St. Athanasius in 367. Of course, it had been _de facto_ fixed for some time already, but there was still dispute about certain letters and books. > -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah From: dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood) Subject: Re: NASA TO BEGIN SEARCH FOR INHABITED PLANETS Message-ID: <1992Oct4.180010.3847@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi Organization: VTT References: <1992Oct4.132953.22159@moxie.hou.tx.us> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:00:10 GMT Lines: 62 In article <1992Oct4.132953.22159@moxie.hou.tx.us> anna@moxie.hou.tx.us (Anna Anderson) writes: > >> From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) >> Subject: HRMS Press Kit >> Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro >> Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory >> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:57:16 GMT > > NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION > HIGH RESOLUTION MICROWAVE SURVEY (HRMS) > PRESS KIT > >OCTOBER 1992 > >PUBLIC AFFAIRS CONTACTS > >NASA HEADQUARTERS, WASHINGTON, D.C. >Office of Space Science and Applications .... > The Targeted Search will perform the most sensitive search >ever conducted of solar-type stars less than 100 light-years >distant. The Targeted Search begins from the world's largest >radio telescope at the National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center's >Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico. It is operated for the >National Science Foundation by Cornell University. .... >TARGETED SEARCH > > Scientists at NASA's Ames Research Center will conduct the >Targeted Search portion of the HRMS. > > The Targeted Search will examine 1,000 nearby solar-type >stars within 100 light years distance from Earth (one light year >is approximately 5.9 trillion miles). The objective is to test >the hypothesis that extraterrestrial technologies are >transmitting radio signals whose characteristics are greatly different >from natural sources of radio emissile sensitivity, the largest >available radio telescopes will be used to conduct the Targeted >Search. The number of targets covered will be much larger than >previous searches, and the range of frequencies covered will be >thousands of times greater than all previous searches combined. .... > > After the discovery has been verified, national and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >international authorities are to be informed. News of the ^^^^^ >confirmed discovery then will be disseminated promptly, openly ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >and widely through scientific channels and the news media. All data >necessary for the confirmation of the detection will be made >available to the international scientific community through >publications, meetings, conferences and other appropriate means. > > No response to any confirmed signal will be sent from Earth >until appropriate international consultations have occurred. > \\\\\\\ What's this about confirming "the discovery"? Have they already made "a discovery"? Strange phrasing. Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51555 alt.alien.visitors:9936 talk.rumors:3301 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!news.byu.edu!yvax.byu.edu!cunyvm!rowhc Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: <92278.183232ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> From: Date: Sunday, 4 Oct 1992 18:32:32 EDT References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Lines: 68 This looks like it was written by a one O. Nenslo, who operates a mail-order cult out of Cambridge, MA by the name of "Horizons Unlimited (Master Control Programming*)." Check out the similar writing style: NENSLO ANSWERS HIS CRITICS!!! Horizon Unlimited research Team's rediscovery of suppressed Blondlot Lamp and N-Ray Battery vindicates Nensletic science! Millions of invisible enemies' slanderous calumnies revealed as conspiracy to ruin reputation of MasterControl Programming System! Led by channeled hints from Master Control, crack research team rediscovers N-Ray device, proving Nenslo Effect -branded fraud by back-stabbing ex-supporters whose failure to gain monetarily from Nensletic Art-Science Philosophy Party Program turned them against erstwhile idol Nenslo - to be everything claimed and more!!! Frenchman Blodlot's suppressed 1903 discovery is IDENTICAL to Nenslo Effect and proves decadent Egyptian civilization lost thread of advanced Babylon Science of immense N-Ray storage device on city-wide scale! Glazed brick city wall, perfect N-Ray mirrors, compounded brick-built pyramid N-Ray storage capacity, creating most powerful N-VORTEX BEACON known in pre-modern era! History, Archaelogy, Science all proved wrong by pocket paper-wrapped fired-clay N-Ray storage units enhancing belief capacity and rendering underlying universable substrate controllable by human will! Revised langmuir criteria emphasize error of traitorous cabal, confirming Master Control Program!! (this isn't even half of it, so I will go on, despite my better judgement, for your own personal amusement...) Nensletic Art-Science Philosophy Party is miracle cure sought through the ages!! Nensletic Institute graduates build Philosopher's Stone at home for pennies a day! See living proof before your very eyes! Evidence of Babylon pyramids' black paper coverings may have vanished with time's ravages, but it is not unreasonable to assume that they may have existed, confirming channeled insinuations from Master Control itself!! N-Ray enhancement field may be assumed to be the basis of every belief system, religious, philosophical, political, in human theory or beyond!! Predating all theories and coeval with the Evanescent Unity, N-Radiation tips the balance, makes unity of diversity and vice versa! Schrodinger box with N-ray battery attachment kills and revives cat at will, from anywhere in the room!! Mere political/religious systems are playthings in the hands of minor gods and demons, a trap for the weak, a one-way sink-hole to tail-chasing terminology-juggling for would-be club members and party-line evesdroppers! Nensletic science dispels Groaning Ghosts of Idolized Ideologues, spanking the Naughty-for-Naughtiness'-sake on the end that needs it! Worldwide coverups and Conspiracy to conceal information by leaving it mislabeled in plain sight doom billions to lifelong servitude to soul-vampire pseudo-deities created by the ones they enslave! Even the Master Control Program can and will entrap if not transcended by N-Ray therapy! That's just one of Nenslo's many "press releases." He can be reached at box 766, Cambridge MA 02142. Be sure to send one dollar with all correspondance to insure speedy reply. Nelslo is loosly affiliated with the Church of the SubGenius based in Dallas. He appears in public wearing turn-of-the-century radiation goggles. He is also an accomplished singer. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ROWHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.BITNET~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ !!!!! ROB WALTERS/ EDITOR, SPHERIC (Global Monthly For Humans) !!!!!!!!!! !!!!! 695 PARK AVE., NEW YORK, NY 10021 $$$ (212) 772-4279 $$$ !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! "HELP STAMP OUT AN END TO ISMISTIC ISMISM." -- HERBERT RONZONI !!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!lizi From: lizi@ocf.berkeley.edu (Cosma R. Shalizi) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: computers in UFO Date: 4 Oct 1992 23:10:20 GMT Organization: Vampire Research Group at Berkeley :) Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1antksINNhqs@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <1992Sep6.112940.3040@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu Summary: Twit. In article jhakumak@messi.uku.fi (Juhana Hakum{ki) writes: >UFOs do not use the fly-by-computer method. Thus, there are no computers on >board. By utilizing a method called fly-by-wire, they eliminate the need for >expensive electronic gear. Besides, it gives you a much better "feel" of the >craft. >Juhana Hakum{ki, Department of Physiology, University of Kuopio, Finland. >E-mail: jhakumak@messi.uku.fi * Disclaimer: Opinions, if any, are mine. Fly-by-wire IS fly-by-computer!! The "wire" means ELECTRONICS. Sheesh. And ponder this: At a speed of only c, you're doing one foot per nanosecond. They either need computers or brains as fast as computers. Besides, _expensive_ electronic gear? WE can make electronics cheaply enough; the per unit memory cost of computers is falling exponentially. If a civilization that can make faster than light spaceships can't make inexpensive computers, then, well... say! Do you suppose THAT'S why they're interested in us? Maybe on Oct. 12, all over the world, hundreds of whadeveryacallems will show up at EE departments demanding to have the mystery of the integrated circuit revealed unto them? Cosma Rohilla Shalizi In Real Life: lizi@ocf.berkeley.edu larval physicist "Dammit, Fno'gid, where's my slide-rule?" -- "Some savages are persuaded by the 'natural light' that it is their duty to eat people, and even Voltaire's savages, who are led by the voice of reason to hold that one should only eat Jesuits, are not wholly satisfactory." -Bertrand Russell on Rousseau in _A History of Western Philosophy_, p. 694 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where is the driven Planetoid? Message-ID: <81072@ut-emx.uucp> Date: 5 Oct 92 05:21:44 GMT References: <19k47mINNmbr@gap.caltech.edu> <11204@platypus.uofs.uofs.edu> <1992Sep29.130021.18697@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp Distribution: usa Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX Lines: 15 I think the Lond Bell force destroyed it. Oops! Sorry, wrong asteroid. ;> Grand Admiral Jorgen Tacitus Cinc Terran Navy Fleet Headquarters Festung Iserlohn -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Chester |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein Politically Incorrect |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us Future Lunar Colonist | are going to the stars." Anonymous -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Mars probe? Keywords: Mars,fithp,thuktun :) Message-ID: <81075@ut-emx.uucp> Date: 5 Oct 92 05:28:17 GMT References: <1992Sep29.035835.28243@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> <26375@castle.ed.ac.uk> <1992Sep29.180739.11414@tamsun.tamu.edu> Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX Lines: 39 In article <1992Sep29.180739.11414@tamsun.tamu.edu> cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (Christopher James Rogers) writes: >In article <26375@castle.ed.ac.uk> fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes: >>sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth) writes: >> >> >>=>There was also a story a while back on the Fox network program >>=>"Sightings" about how supposedly Soviet ground controllers lost mysteriously >>=>lost contact with one of their Phobos probes orbiting Mars, this was in >>=>1989 or 90. The last photo it transmitted was of one of Mars's moons, >>=>but their was also a second large obejct in the photo.... >> >>Mars? >> >>=>Simon >> >>FoFP > >Sorry, but no. It was not Mars. The object was long and cylindrical. As of >yet, it is not explained. *ALERT RED FLASH MESSAGE* They might be the enemy that followed my fleet from the alternate timeline we came from. Eyeeeeeeeeewwwwww. It's going to get nasty. Grand Admiral Jorgen Tacitus Cinc: Terran Navy (maybe not for long :() Fleet Headquarters Fortress Abowaku (My flag bounces around like a ping pong ball in a blender.) We'll show 'em. (I hope it's not the them I'm thinking of.) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Chester |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein Politically Incorrect |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us Future Lunar Colonist | are going to the stars." Anonymous -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <81076@ut-emx.uucp> Date: 5 Oct 92 05:59:08 GMT References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX Lines: 89 In article <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: )I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much )to see what people on the net think of his views. ) )This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director )and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared )as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7, )Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7. ) )He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings, )and the U.S. government, in collusion with the other national powers of the )earth, is determined to keep this information from the general public. )The purpose of the international conspiracy is to maintain a workable stability )among the nations of the world and for them, in turn, to retain institutional )control over their respective populations. Thus, for these governments to )admit that there are beings from outer space...with mentalities and )technological )capabilities obviously far superior to ours, could, once fully perceived This is not so obvious. The Europeans had technology far superior to the Native Americans they met, but did not have superior mentalities.(IMHO: both had similar mentalities but that's not PC now. Shhh, don't tell them I said that ;) It is also not obvious that any race that achieves space travel will be beyond war or other bilge. They may have held out long enough to spread out into space far enough so that a nuclear war or other disaster would not wipe them out in one stroke. That they would have better technology is a valid assumption since interstellar travel is currently beyond our capabilities and any XT race would have to come from another system. Mentality cannot be easily guessed since we have no way to prove that. Only speculation and wishful thinking that travelers from the stars will come and solve all our problems for us. They may *be* a problem, or they may be just trading partners. My only references that have a remote shred of validity would be aliens from hard science fiction novels and that's just someone's imagination. At least I hope the kzin, Ryall, Borg, tnuctpin, Krohn, Ko-Dan, etc. *are* imaginary. Life would be very interesting if they did exist...in the Chinese frame of mind.;) )by the average person, erode the foundations of the earth's traditional )power structure. Political and legal systems, religions, economic and )social institutions could all soon become meaningless in the mind of the Yeah right. Maybe they came because THEIR sociology was screwed up. Not going to comment on the likelyhood of that though. )public. The national oligarchical establishments, even civilization as we )now know it, could collapse into anarchy. Such extreme conclusions are not )necessaril7y valid, but they probably accurately reflect the fears of the )*ruling classes* of the major nations, whose leaders (particularly those )in the intelligence business) have always advocated excessive governmental )secrecy as being necessary to preserve *national security.** Sometimes secrecy is needed but that's another debate. ) )That's the quote. ) )So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization )as we know it. What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? )WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs )and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some )discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. ) )Regards, Lou Crago Well Lou, I think the reactions would be varied. Religious people might freak if they are the kind which think that Humanity was the ONLY race blessed by God; that would form the conclusion that the aliens were Satan's creation. That would probably be from the more extreme groups. I would think that most religions would be flexible enough to account for other groups of God's children. I hope so or I will become a pariah. Even that would cause problems since no doubt some would try to convert the aliens. Egad. I think the group that might have the most problems would be the hard science fiction community. Sure, they would be jubilant.... until they realized most of their novels stood a good chance of becoming as charmingly simplistic as Victorian-era science fiction. ("Good guess, but way off Hu-man.") The only circumstances where a world panic would start would be if the aliens were hostile and started bombing form orbit. Check out _Footfall_ for a pretty good invasion story. Remember the plan w/Orion class spacecraft. :) Of course, they'd have to get by my fleet ;) Grand Admiral Jorgen Tacitus Terran Navy Fleet Headquarters Festung Iserlohn (Not HERE again! :) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Chester |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein Politically Incorrect |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us Future Lunar Colonist | are going to the stars." Anonymous -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!sgi!cdp!elite From: elite@igc.apc.org (Elite Enterprises) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: CHICAGO BBS IS HOT Message-ID: <1296700007@igc.apc.org> Date: 4 Oct 92 18:11:00 GMT Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Lines: 3 Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296700007:000:61 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!elite Oct 4 11:11:00 1992 THE UFO, PARANORMAL AND CONSPIRACY BBS 312/604-8161 24 HOURS Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!sgi!cdp!elite From: elite@igc.apc.org (Elite Enterprises) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: WEALTHY PERSON BUYS UFO STUFF Message-ID: <1296700008@igc.apc.org> Date: 4 Oct 92 18:12:00 GMT Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Lines: 4 Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296700008:000:122 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!elite Oct 4 11:12:00 1992 I BUY UFO RELATED MERCHANDISE FOR CASH! ANYTHING AND ALL! CALL 312/604-4434! WILL REIMBURSE YOU FOR CALL IF I BUY! ROBERT Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9943 sci.skeptic:32041 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct5.140440.24794@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:02:12 GMT Lines: 19 In article <1992Oct2.223737.19848@prime.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen) writes... >*>I'll go even farther... I'll bet that the proof turns out to be that >*>there are *many* faces found.. not just one.. how's that for proof? > >That's poor for proof. We are tended to see human faces in different >formations; its in our psychologic construction. The first figure that a new >born baby recognize is human face. If we adults see a figure that's not >familiar, we start instictively look for human face in it - and in most >cases we find it. >-- > * kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi * * Mr Kari Nenonen * > * Helsinki - Finland * Well then.... how about if the faces are accompanied by extensive artifacts... remains of vast cities and ancient crumbling transport systems.. :-) Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11986 sci.skeptic:32049 alt.alien.visitors:9944 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!pacbell.com!rtech!ingres!kevinq From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Oct5.170641.10871@pony.Ingres.COM> Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501 References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <67067@cup.portal.com> Date: 5 Oct 92 17:06:41 GMT Lines: 16 In article <67067@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >1>+_ > >Subject: Dolphin Spills The Beans. [ rejected Flipper script rerouted to /dev/null ] OK, John. This one's pretty bad - even the Sun coulda faked up something better! Try harder... kbq -- Kevin Quinn | kevinq@ingres.com | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com My opinions are my own. Should you think otherwise, think again. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9945 sci.skeptic:32052 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct5.192715.13238@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:27:15 GMT Lines: 32 schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes: >You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural >against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the >proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to >any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on >public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect >the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing, >because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...) sure, that sounds good. you raise an interesting technical point; it is my understanding that the camera on the viking also couldn't be aimed as such, and yet we got these provocative photos. another valid point that you raise is that the verdict might be 'insufficient evidence'. the 'face' by itself, to me, wouldn't be all that exciting. the geometric relationships between the 'face', 'city', 'D&M pyramid', 'fortress', 'straight wall' etc are what, to me, raises the possibility that these might be artificial constructions. one of the more interesting points in hoagland's book is his statement that half a million years ago the (solstitial? either that or equinoctial) sun rose over the 'wall' and 'face' as seen from the center of the 'city'. has anyone else bothered to work this out? josh Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9946 sci.skeptic:32059 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!gatech!psuvax1!psuvm!kaj113 Organization: Penn State University Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:59:03 EDT From: Message-ID: <92279.175903KAJ113@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Lines: 11 I agree with you. I think. A few years ago, while I was still in high school, I was talking to this guy who was filming a video yearbook for our school. While I was interviewing him we somehow got on the subject of UFO's and such. Anyway, he told me about the book "Faces of Mars". I don't remember everything he said, but I do remember it was very convincing. Ever since I have been trying to get a copy of that book but cannot seem to find it. Do you know who the author was? I find this topic very interesting, however I regret not knowing much about it. I believe that there is life out there somewhere and that maybe this life has much to offer our society. There shouldn't be any reason to be so afraid of finding out the truth. Or should there? Thanks josh, Kimberly Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9947 sci.skeptic:32070 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!convex!schumach From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Oct5.192715.13238@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:33:21 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 23 In <1992Oct5.192715.13238@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes: >you raise an interesting technical point; it is my understanding that the >camera on the viking also couldn't be aimed as such, and yet we got these >provocative photos. So Viking got lucky. The Observer high res camera will see very narrow swaths in the direction that it happens to be pointing; it can't be aimed without turning the entire spacecraft. Thus it will photograph at most a few percent of the surface over the life of the mission. It will be pure luck if the "face" happens to pass before the camera. On the other hand, the low res camera should provide pictures of the "face" from a different angle and lighting than that of the Viking image. Bold prediction: the "face" as seen by Observer will be so obviously natural and un-face-like that it will not be immediately recognized as the same formation. A few zealots will charge that NASA has disguised the image to save us from the terrible truth. Others will explain that the "face" has been eroded on that side... *yawn*. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!wupost!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Vote - final results Message-ID: Keywords: vote, spokesman, Earth, results Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 05:12:08 GMT Lines: 9 In article Earth@ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) writes: > >40 Kibo > 1 Me (whoever that is: one of the messages was "Vote: Me") Didn't that one have a "From: kibo@world.std.com" header? -- K. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Vote - final results Message-ID: Date: 6 Oct 92 07:36:37 GMT References: Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 23 In article James "Kibo" Parry writes: > > >40 Kibo > > 1 Me (whoever that is: one of the messages was "Vote: Me") > > Didn't that one have a "From: kibo@world.std.com" header? No, the message was from somebody who wasn't in the run. Kibo's message contained an explicit vote. But, since Kibo is Kibo (or so I think), we can allow Kibo to change Kibo's vote from "Vote: Kibo" to "Vote: Me": 39 Kibo 2 Me But then, "Kibo" is not "Me" and I am not Kibo anyway, so there must be something wrong with this. > -- K. -- The Clone of Claudio Calvelli Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!glasgow!murraysd From: murraysd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Stephen D Murray) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Faq Message-ID: Date: 6 Oct 92 10:10:25 GMT Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept. Lines: 9 Could someone please post the Faq, or mail it to me or tell me how to ftp it? I lose my access in a couple of days and I'd like to have the Faq before that. Thanks to all who replied to my posts. Cheers, Stephen D Murray. (till Thursday ) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9951 sci.skeptic:32085 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct6.074138.15339@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <92279.175903KAJ113@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 07:41:38 GMT Lines: 29 writes: >Anyway, he told me about the book "Faces of Mars". I don't remember >everything he said, but I do remember it was very convincing. well, I call it 'intriguing' myself. I am actually fairly skeptical about it. but as I often point out, skepticism does not consist of automatic disbelief, but in neither believing nor disbelieving without convincing evidence one way or another. the photographs themselves are very interesting; not just the 'face', but the other possibly artificial structures involved, the seeming geometrical and astronomical alignments, etc. I would not, on present evidence, unequivocally state 'there are artificial structures on mars'. the most cogent criticism of the photographs is that they are greatly en- hanced (but the geometrical and astronomcial alignments I have just mentioned are apparent in the unenhanced photographs). Very fortunately, barring unforeseen circumstances, the mars observor should settle the question once and for all. > Ever since I have been >trying to get a copy of that book but cannot seem to find it. Do you know >who the author was? the book is called 'the monuments of mars; a city on the edge of forever', and it is by richard hoagland. it has to be (or had to be) ordered from the publisher, and I am sorry, but I don't have the book, publisher's name or ISBN number to hand. josh Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9952 sci.skeptic:32086 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!tko.vtt.fi!dah From: dah@tko.vtt.fi (David Harwood) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct6.115056.11613@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi Organization: VTT References: <1992Oct5.192715.13238@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:50:56 GMT Lines: 22 In article schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes: >In <1992Oct5.192715.13238@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes: > >>you raise an interesting technical point; it is my understanding that the >>camera on the viking also couldn't be aimed as such, and yet we got these >>provocative photos. > >So Viking got lucky. The Observer high res camera will see very narrow >swaths in the direction that it happens to be pointing; >it can't be aimed without turning the entire >spacecraft.... __________ I don't mean to interrupt this discussion, but I recall seeing an interview with a NASA representative on a CNN science report about the new Mars observing satellite. As I recall, he said they would take a new look at the Mars 'face' formation. (Also these satellites (and HR camera) can be and are directed. The fact that they are used to survey arcs is another issue - of procedure of survey while moving. [To be sure, I doubt that anyone at NASA believes the "face" is an artificial formation.] Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9953 sci.skeptic:32087 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!stanford.edu!rutgers!bellcore!walter!phelix!mdl From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Message-ID: <1992Oct6.130922.28852@walter.bellcore.com> Date: 6 Oct 92 13:09:22 GMT References: <1992Oct5.192715.13238@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Oct6.115056.11613@ousrvr.oulu.fi> Sender: news@walter.bellcore.com Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Organization: Bellcore Lines: 6 Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com What is the approximate size of the "face" feature? Mike Lynch mdl@oscar.bellcore.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct5.204208.20641@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Sep30.174319.18281@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:42:08 GMT Lines: 95 In article <1992Sep30.174319.18281@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: > >In article <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes... >>I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much >>to see what people on the net think of his views. >> >>This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director >>and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared >>as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7, >>Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7. >> >>He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings, [...] >>That's the quote. >> >>So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization >>as we know it. What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? >>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs >>and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some >>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. >> >>Regards, Lou Crago >> > >Lou, > >I don't think people today would get very upset at all. As a matter of fact, >I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like >this ... waiting for it. > >There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our >systems. I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people >a whole new outlook on life.. on existence... > >mary stanley > > A WHOLE NEW OUTLOOK: How are the politians, bankers, lawyers and insurance agents going to deal with that? Fact is, if things change, the power (whether political or economic) divisions would get shuffled. Someone might come up a little shorter. I think thats where its all at. Lets keep on keeping on since we are so comfortable. Its a fear that society would change in an undetermined way. Fear of the unknown, not of the greys. Actually, I think the fear lays in the governments possibly not being able to shape or regulate their respective populaces in their own predetermined way. Kind of like the information squelch that ensues under some dictatorial governments when they determine that free-thinking individuals basically are harder to keep under their thumb. This is an example of politcal power shift. Not a pleasant thing if you are in politics. Also, another factor is the "gas saver carbuerator" (tm) theory. This is where a guy develops an amazing technological device that will allow the average family car to run 1000 miles on a gallon of gas. The big oil companies buy it up and pay the inventor millions of dollars to keep his mouth shut. This prevents an economic shift. I don't beleive this has happened, just using it as an example. Possibly the Greys' technologies, if the Greys exist, would make many large corporations obsolete in a few years. I am sure the corporations would be in contact with their respective governments to keep this information "down" as a survival technique. The fact is, the world is run on The Golden Rule. Its true. The Golden Rule you heard as a child...NOT! The one being used today is: He Who Has The Gold Makes The Rules I am sure, if the Greys do exist, they that have the gold say the rule is UFOs don't exist. If Greys are exposed, guess who has the gold now? Yeah, thats what the corporate and governmental officals are affraid of. Think about it. Its pretty appearant. OK. I can't stop here. You know what pisses me off? This: If a research firm came up with a 100% safe, sure cure for, say, heart disease or cancer or any one of the major diseases of the world, would he ever be able to market it? I doubt it. There are too many doctors/corporations etc. making too much money off of it to let that happen. Either that or, they would buy it up, patent it and make the price so high as to keep any average person from getting treatment. Its almost that bad now and the cure isn't ever there. Let the Greys come. If they are friendly, I will shake their hands and wax their saucers. If they are not, I will do what I can to blow them off the planet. Gregg (halfway through Secret Life) Ps: Mary: you are right. It wouldn't have to have an adverse affect on society. It would have (read this carefully) an adverse affect on the things that adversly affect society. I think it would be good. -- This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct5.210958.20847@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> <10499@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:09:58 GMT Lines: 60 In article <10499@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> rhys@cs.uq.oz.au writes: >In <1992Sep30.185843.7100@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: > >> How is our hypothetical Stanford luminary going to take this? For >>him it is a personal CATASTROPHE! Yes, he would like to learn the >>secrets of the universe, but his life is in ruins. Superconduction >>theory is now irrelevant, childlike. His scientific and financial >>position has evaporated. The next day in a graduate seminar, his >>students want to know why they should bother finishing the course when >>it is now all useless drivel. And they're right. > >There's always the "we don't need no stinking aliens - we'll do it ourselves" >angle. Who cares if it takes a few hundred years to "catch up"? At least >we can say that we did on our own, and aren't beholden to the aliens forever. >I'd expect most scientists would jump at the opportunity to study alien >technology, even if it makes their research obselete. If our hypothetical >Standford luminary is the only person (or one of a select few) that have any >hope of understanding the alien technology, his position of power has not >evaporated at all. If however he is just a suit, getting on committees due to >political power, then it's time to hand over the reigns to someone more >capable anyway. But that isn't how the world works. Fact is, this guy would fight tooth and nail to keep the Greys tech. isolated to save his own butt. One thing you learn real quick in industry is that CYA is the only rule that applies. True most "real" scientists would jump at the chance, trouble is, they aren't the ones with the gold. (He Who Has The Gold...) > >You must crawl before you walk. Newtonian mechanics is still taught in schools >even though we know that Einstein showed it to be strictly incorrect. It is >still taught because it is easier to understand than Einsteinian mechanics, >and forms a good basis for beginning to understand Einsteinian mechanics. The >current education system can form just as good a basis for alien technology as >it does for human technology. True... > >We don't need to treat alien technology as a mysterious "gift from the Gods". >We'll make better use of it if we understand how it works, and develop our own >versions. I think most people would agree that knowing how the gadgets work >is a good protection against the day the aliens don't like us any more, or we >don't like them. There is some wisdom here. > >Cheers, > >Rhys. >-- >Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. >rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Gregg. -- This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct6.135142.22989@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Oct1.151500.18431@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:51:42 GMT Lines: 58 In article <1992Oct1.151500.18431@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: > >In article <1992Oct1.053513.14191@netcom.com>, vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes... > >> Congressman Traxler cares. This is the gentleman who led the >>recent attempt to cut ALL funding for the space station in the US >>House of Representatives. In recent years the margin of approval has >>been progressively diminishing. Mr. Traxler and his bretheren are >>going to say, with some justification, "Why should we spend $20 >>billion over the next ten years on scientific research and engineering >>when we could use the money to rebuild the slums in Detroit or start >>reducing the federal deficit." You could set up some relatively small >>and cheap Alien tech transfer committees that would yield a much >>better return on the taxpayers' investment. I would agree with this >>approach. Prof. Luminary's knowledge, his lab equipment, and his >>stock holdings are now worthless. And just as important, his ego >>would be deflated and he would be in psychic shock. The politicians >>would be justified in freezing or cancelling the funding for most >>existing scientific research projects. Only a few would be continued >>and redirected to examine the new Alien scientific theories. > >Is Professor Luminary's stock holdings and ego more important than the >future an alien contact could open up for the rest of humanity? > > >> We see a small hint of the same phenomenon in the effect on US >>science and engineering of the collapse of the Soviet Union. A >>million scientist and engineers are losing their jobs because the >>justification for the projects went away. Congress doesn't care. Let >>them relocate to Detroit and fix potholes. California is now in the >>worst economic condition since the depression, with defense spending >>cuts a major cause. Official confirmation of Alien technology would >>magnify this phenomenon 1000 times. > >Oh come on... it would not... there aren't that many Professor Luminary's >working for California. :-) > >Hey Professor Luminary... the rest of us have to learn to get by when our >jobs go away... get back to the real world and stop expecting humanity >to forfeit it's future to protect your stock and your ego. > >Mary Stanley Hey! Don't jump on Steve's back. He isn't saying its right. The fact is humanity has, does, is and will forfeit it's future to protect Professor Luminary's butt. Why should things change now? Shoot, it was like that 2,000 years ago. They hung Jesus on the cross for the same thing. He was eroding the Jewish powerbase with a greater knowledge. They nailed him to the tree. Process: different, Result: same. Powerbrokers must be information brokers. Hence, change the information the way you want it and you get/keep your power. What we are talking about here has nothing to do with scientific truth. As with myself, this fact of life discusts real scientists. Gregg -- This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct6.135548.23082@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Oct1.153043.19177@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:55:48 GMT Lines: 40 In article <1992Oct1.153043.19177@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: > >In article <15532@suns9.crosfield.co.uk>, imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) writes... >> >> >>>>So there it all is, the worst fears,even down to the collapse of civilization >>>>as we know it. What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? >>>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs >>>>and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some >>>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. >>>> >>>I don't think people today would get very upset at all. As a matter of fact, >>>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like >>>this ... waiting for it. >>> >>Personally, I don't think we'll ever see the secrecy lifted, unless the aliens >>(if they exist) do it themselves, or there is a major change in super power >>politics and policy, which is equally unlikely. >> >>______________________________________________________________________________ >>| Ian Taylor (x4097) | | imt@cel.crosfield.uk | >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >If the aliens decide to do it themselves, Ian (and I am of the opinion that >they've already made that decision), then we will quickly see a major change >in super politics policy. Super politics policy adapts quickly... they are >very pragmatic. :-) > > This is also true. They will resist until the last moment, claiming the change is terribibel (a term stolen from Winnie the Pooh's Tigger) and horribibel. Then, once it happens, they will be right in ther claiming they were a proponent all along, etc., etc. Gregg -- This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Auras Message-ID: <1992Oct6.140946.23177@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1aflk8INNj37@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:09:46 GMT Lines: 17 In article <1aflk8INNj37@male.EBay.Sun.COM> kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM writes: >RA, > >As a little girl, I saw auras, as an adult, I still see auras. If this is a >figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one. > >Kathie G. ;.) No! Its not your imagination. Just dirty glasses or dirt in your eyes. I see auras all the time. Usually when I am squinting from the sun. Its not a big deal, I have learned to deal with them. ;> Gregg. -- This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct6.143627.23299@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Oct2.042735.14161@eskimo.celestial.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:36:27 GMT Lines: 16 In article <1992Oct2.042735.14161@eskimo.celestial.com> nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes: > Some things I would expect to come of it.. I would think that it would >give people a more "global" view of our planet and perhaps then we could start >cooperating to preserve it and stop killing each other.I suspect the presence >of aliens on this planet would pose some delimas for religious fanatics and >with any luck they would find themselves less in a position of power. > Applies to political and intellectual portions of our society as well. Hence the reason for the suppression of the knowledge of alien presence, if it exists. Gregg. -- This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan From: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Bill English Message-ID: Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 00:19:52 CST Organization: System 6626 BBS, Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Lines: 4 Thanks for posting that Bill English transcript. So, what's he up to these days? Is this guy for real? [TK] Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9961 sci.skeptic:32095 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!bernina!sam.math.ethz.ch!pkeller From: pkeller@sam.math.ethz.ch (Philipp Keller) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct6.165359.4015@bernina.ethz.ch> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: news@bernina.ethz.ch (USENET News System) Organization: Seminar for Applied Mathematics, ETH Zurich. References: <1992Oct5.192715.13238@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Oct6.115056.11613@ousrvr.oulu.fi> <1992Oct6.130922.28852@walter.bellcore.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:53:59 GMT Lines: 17 I am not sure wheather it had been told here before, but there is a new sf-book called 'The Labyrinth of night' by Allen Steele which story is based on the assumption that the Face on Mars was construction by aliens, build with the intent to lure Homo Sapiens to Mars. I don't want to tell too much about the story but in the introduction Allan Steele quiet of excuses his use of the 'Face on Mars' and says that he has no opinion for or against the idea that it is an artificial building and that in sf anyway all goes. Apart from all this, the book is really good. Please don't flame me, I don't believe in all this but this 'Face on Mars-thing' sure makes for great sf stuff. Philipp Keller Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9962 sci.skeptic:32097 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!gatech!concert!rock!taco!echyatt From: echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System) Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:18:57 GMT Lines: 17 In article schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes: >You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural >against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the >proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to >any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on >public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect >the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing, >because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...) I saw the original post, and I want in on this bet. I've got $100 against your $1 that says the Mars face is a natural feature. -- -------------------- Craig Hyatt NCSU@Raleigh, NC USA echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu -------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!att-out!pacbell.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (What a long, strange trip it's been) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct6.171939.17061@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: 6 Oct 92 18:13:20 GMT Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 128 In article <1992Oct5.204208.20641@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes... >In article <1992Sep30.174319.18281@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: >> >>In article <1992Sep29.173457.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes... >>>I'm going to quote an ex-CIA official because I would like very much >>>to see what people on the net think of his views. >>> >>>This is by Victor Marchetti, former Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director >>>and Special Assistant to the Executive Director of the CIA. It appeared >>>as *How the CIA views the UFO Phenomenon,* in SECOND LOOK, Vol.1. No.7, >>>Washington DC, May 1979, pp. 2-7. >>> >>>He says ....*we have, indeed, been contacted...by extraterrestrial beings, > >[...] > >>>That's the quote. >>> >>>So there it all is, the worst fears, even down to the collapse of civilization >>>as we know it. What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? >>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs >>>and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some >>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. >>> >>>Regards, Lou Crago >>> >> >>Lou, >> >>I don't think people today would get very upset at all. As a matter of fact, >>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like >>this ... waiting for it. >> >>There's no reason why contact would have to have an adverse effect on our >>systems. I don't think it would at all... I think it would give people >>a whole new outlook on life.. on existence... >> >>mary stanley >> >> > >A WHOLE NEW OUTLOOK: How are the politians, bankers, lawyers and insurance >agents going to deal with that? Fact is, if things change, the power (whether >political or economic) divisions would get shuffled. Someone might come up >a little shorter. So what? Humanity would be much better off for the change...as a matter of fact.. considering the course humanity appears to be on now, change seems essential. >I think thats where its all at. Lets keep on keeping on >since we are so comfortable. Its a fear that society would change in an >undetermined way. Fear of the unknown, not of the greys. Actually, I think >the fear lays in the governments possibly not being able to shape or regulate >their respective populaces in their own predetermined way. They never actually could... so much of what we accept as real is and has been mere illusion. >Kind of like >the information squelch that ensues under some dictatorial governments when >they determine that free-thinking individuals basically are harder to keep >under their thumb. This is an example of politcal power shift. Not a pleasant >thing if you are in politics. > >Also, another factor is the "gas saver carbuerator" (tm) theory. This is >where a guy develops an amazing technological device that will allow the >average family car to run 1000 miles on a gallon of gas. The big oil >companies buy it up and pay the inventor millions of dollars to keep >his mouth shut. This prevents an economic shift. I don't beleive this >has happened, just using it as an example. Possibly the Greys' technologies, >if the Greys exist, would make many large corporations obsolete in a few >years. I am sure the corporations would be in contact with their respective >governments to keep this information "down" as a survival technique. > Corporations evolve just like everything else. Notice how there are no blacksmiths anymore? :-) They would evolve.. and so would the rest of society. I think you are correct in your assessment of the situation though... >The fact is, the world is run on The Golden Rule. Its true. The Golden Rule >you heard as a child...NOT! The one being used today is: > >He Who Has The Gold Makes The Rules Surprise! :-) ... the rules are changing.... > >I am sure, if the Greys do exist, they that have the gold say the rule is UFOs >don't exist. If Greys are exposed, guess who has the gold now? Yeah, thats >what the corporate and governmental officals are affraid of. Think about it. >Its pretty appearant. I doubt the Greys care though... they (undoubtedly) have an agenda of their own to pursue. > >OK. I can't stop here. You know what pisses me off? This: If a research firm >came up with a 100% safe, sure cure for, say, heart disease or cancer or >any one of the major diseases of the world, would he ever be able to market >it? I doubt it. There are too many doctors/corporations etc. making too much >money off of it to let that happen. Either that or, they would buy it up, >patent it and make the price so high as to keep any average person from >getting treatment. Its almost that bad now and the cure isn't ever there. > >Let the Greys come. If they are friendly, I will shake their hands and wax >their saucers. If they are not, I will do what I can to blow them off the >planet. A sensible attitude... I'm with you. > > >Gregg (halfway through Secret Life) > >Ps: Mary: you are right. It wouldn't have to have an adverse affect on > society. It would have (read this carefully) an adverse affect > on the things that adversly affect society. I think it > would be good. > >-- >This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Hey Greg... fasten your seat belt... we're in for a heck of a ride. :-) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!fstop.csc.ti.com!tidss1!alanj From: alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct6.182212.8464@csc.ti.com> Sender: usenet@csc.ti.com Nntp-Posting-Host: tidss1.dadd.ti.com Reply-To: alanj@dadd.ti.com Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc. References: <1992Oct5.204208.20641@acd4.acd.com> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:22:12 GMT Lines: 13 I think most of the theories about what would happen when an extraterrestrial civilization would land hinge on the assumptions made about what these visitors would offer the human race. I find it much more likely that they would offer little technological assistance, or at least they would make technologies known very gradually. I doubt they would want to turn the world upside down because of their offerings. I also think they'd be more interested in bringing a message of peace and love and spirituality, since it seems obvious (to me) that that is where this planet really needs help. --- sincerely, Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!pacbell.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (What a long, strange trip it's been) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct6.194551.24062@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:41:59 GMT Lines: 49 In article <1992Oct6.135142.22989@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes... >In article <1992Oct1.151500.18431@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: >> >>In article <1992Oct1.053513.14191@netcom.com>, vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes... >>Is Professor Luminary's stock holdings and ego more important than the >>future an alien contact could open up for the rest of humanity? >> >> >>> We see a small hint of the same phenomenon in the effect on US >>>science and engineering of the collapse of the Soviet Union. A >>>million scientist and engineers are losing their jobs because the >>>justification for the projects went away. Congress doesn't care. Let >>>them relocate to Detroit and fix potholes. California is now in the >>>worst economic condition since the depression, with defense spending >>>cuts a major cause. Official confirmation of Alien technology would >>>magnify this phenomenon 1000 times. >> >>Oh come on... it would not... there aren't that many Professor Luminary's >>working for California. :-) >> >>Hey Professor Luminary... the rest of us have to learn to get by when our >>jobs go away... get back to the real world and stop expecting humanity >>to forfeit it's future to protect your stock and your ego. >> >>Mary Stanley > >Hey! Don't jump on Steve's back. He isn't saying its right. The fact is >humanity has, does, is and will forfeit it's future to protect Professor >Luminary's butt. Why should things change now? Shoot, it was like that >2,000 years ago. They hung Jesus on the cross for the same thing. He was >eroding the Jewish powerbase with a greater knowledge. They nailed him >to the tree. Process: different, Result: same. Powerbrokers must be >information brokers. Hence, change the information the way you want it >and you get/keep your power. What we are talking about here has nothing >to do with scientific truth. As with myself, this fact of life discusts >real scientists. > >Gregg I wasn't jumping on Steve's back, Greg... I was jumping on Professor Luminary. But now that you mention it... humanity won't forgeit it's future to protect Professor Luminary's butt. Why should things change now? Because we choose that they do. Because we want them to. Because change is inevitable.. a part of life.. because the good guys always win (my own particular favorite) :-) mary Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!pacbell.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (What a long, strange trip it's been) Subject: Re: What Do You Think? Message-ID: <1992Oct6.194818.24170@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:47:38 GMT Lines: 45 In article <1992Oct6.135548.23082@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes... >In article <1992Oct1.153043.19177@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: >> >>In article <15532@suns9.crosfield.co.uk>, imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) writes... >>> >>> >>>>>So there it all is, the worst fears,even down to the collapse of civilization >>>>>as we know it. What I'm wondering is, what do people think about this now? >>>>>WOULD the mass of people go completely ape if it was established that UFOs >>>>>and Visitors are real? I can't quite make up my mind. Let's have some >>>>>discussion on this and see what peoples's views are. >>>>> >>>>I don't think people today would get very upset at all. As a matter of fact, >>>>I think that a lot of people today are more or less expecting something like >>>>this ... waiting for it. >>>> >>>Personally, I don't think we'll ever see the secrecy lifted, unless the aliens >>>(if they exist) do it themselves, or there is a major change in super power >>>politics and policy, which is equally unlikely. >>> >>>______________________________________________________________________________ >>>| Ian Taylor (x4097) | | imt@cel.crosfield.uk | >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>If the aliens decide to do it themselves, Ian (and I am of the opinion that >>they've already made that decision), then we will quickly see a major change >>in super politics policy. Super politics policy adapts quickly... they are >>very pragmatic. :-) >> >> > >This is also true. They will resist until the last moment, claiming the >change is terribibel (a term stolen from Winnie the Pooh's Tigger) and >horribibel. Then, once it happens, they will be right in ther claiming they >were a proponent all along, etc., etc. > >Gregg > > >-- >This .sig was prepared by a professional editor. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Yep... you got it! :-) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!skynyrd.rutgers.edu!procacci From: procacci@skynyrd.rutgers.edu (Vincent Procacci) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: jerky Summary: jerky Keywords: everything Message-ID: Date: 6 Oct 92 20:54:25 GMT Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 1 I don't know about you but I think the new Star Trek is sooo much better than the old Star Trek, and another thing is that I don't have to talk to you jerky. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9968 sci.skeptic:32107 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!swoodwar From: swoodwar@zeus.calpoly.edu (Null Cypher) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Message-ID: <1992Oct06.220443.142310@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: 6 Oct 92 22:04:43 GMT References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> Organization: Void-Tech Illumination Research, Inc. Lines: 5 $100 says that the sun will not explode next week -- ------------------ fjbbqjne ng qrzrgre qbg pnycbyl qbg rqh ------------------ Gur bayl checbfr bs guvf fvtangher vf gb trg crbcyr gb ebg-guvegrra vg... Qvq V rire fnl vg jnf tbvat gb or jbegujuvyr? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sgigate!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!swoodwar From: swoodwar@zeus.calpoly.edu (Null Cypher) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo! Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results Message-ID: <1992Oct06.221413.145112@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: 6 Oct 92 22:14:13 GMT References: <1992Oct2.184533.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Organization: Void-Tech Illumination Research, Inc. Lines: 23 mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) had the unmitigated audacity to say: > > kibo@world.std.com (bloody great... oh, pardon me, madam) writes: > ...I could just go to a mountain and stand there and shout, > 'Hey you guys! I'm spokesman for this planet! You can > probably see it from where you are, if you can hear me! > Hello? Is anyone there?' > >... I think this is by far the best plan. I recommend you do this, >without delay, and wait there as long as is necessary. I shall sleep >the sleep of the saved, knowing that the great kibo is far away, >indeed as far away as possible, on a mountain shouting at the stars. >Congratulations! > >Charles Actually I liked the random-phone-number plan better. Let's take a vote. -- ------------------ fjbbqjne ng qrzrgre qbg pnycbyl qbg rqh ------------------ Gur bayl checbfr bs guvf fvtangher vf gb trg crbcyr gb ebg-guvegrra vg... Qvq V rire fnl vg jnf tbvat gb or jbegujuvyr? Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9970 sci.skeptic:32108 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!blaze.cs.jhu.edu!glitch!wilson From: wilson@glitch.cs.jhu.edu (Dwight Wilson) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct6.223414.6685@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: news@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Usenet news system) Organization: The Johns Hopkins University CS Department References: <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> <1992Oct06.220443.142310@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:34:14 GMT Lines: 6 In article <1992Oct06.220443.142310@zeus.calpoly.edu> swoodwar@zeus.calpoly.edu (Null Cypher) writes: >$100 says that the sun will not explode next week $100 says you won't pay off if it does. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9971 sci.skeptic:32115 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Message-ID: <1992Oct6.230419.3026@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 6 Oct 92 23:04:19 GMT References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 23 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN) Colombus would sail off the end of the Earth? Here is another clever person with a wonderful example human intelect. This is a quote from a 1865 Boston Post editorial: "WELL INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSMIT THE VOICE OVER WIRES AND THAT, WERE IT POSSIBLE TO DO SO, THE THING WOULD BE OF NO PRACTICAL VALUE." Anything is possible......the jury is still out on this one folks. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!csl.sri.com!boucher From: boucher@csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: TALK WITH ALIENS! Date: 6 Oct 1992 22:02:11 GMT Organization: Computer Science Lab, SRI International Lines: 17 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1at2d3INNk6e@roche.csl.sri.com> References: <140335.2AC4014E@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <66960@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: omaha.csl.sri.com In article , clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Claudio Calvelli) writes: |> In article <66960@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: |> > |> > I heard somewhere that there is a law against talking to aliens, we could |> > get a $10,000. fine from the federal govt. for communicating with aliens. |> > Has anyone else heard this? I think I heard it from G. Green so I am |> > not sure how true it is. This applies only to illegal aliens. you can talk to them if they have a green card. -- Peter K. Boucher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Science Lab, SRI International Software Engineer 333 Ravenswood Ave. #EL-237 (415) 859-3927 Menlo Park, CA 94025 boucher@csl.sri.com Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9973 sci.skeptic:32119 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!rochester!rocksanne!brahms!eradm From: eradm@brahms.Berkeley.EDU (Erik Radmall) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Message-ID: <1992Oct6.191034.6311@spectrum.xerox.com> Date: 6 Oct 92 19:10:34 GMT References: <1992Oct1.060552.5151@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> Sender: news@spectrum.xerox.com Reply-To: eradm@brahms.Berkeley.EDU (Erik Radmall) Organization: Xerox Lines: 30 In article <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu>, echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT) writes: |> In article schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes: |> >You're on: my hundred dollars that the stupid "Face" is natural |> >against your dollar that the "face" is artificial, with the |> >proviso that WE mutually agree on the decision. No appeal to |> >any third party: this will put your integrity and mine on |> >public trial. What say you? (I must say that I don't expect |> >the Mars Observer to return a high resolution image of the thing, |> >because the high resolution camera can't really be aimed...) |> |> I saw the original post, and I want in on this bet. I've got |> $100 against your $1 that says the Mars face is a natural feature. Actually, the film processing lab forgot to remove someone's vacation photo negatives from the enlarger. The face is really that of Clyde Thrumburger, of Madison Wisconsin. The film processing staff is currently under investigation. NASA regrets the error. |> -- |> -------------------- |> Craig Hyatt |> NCSU@Raleigh, NC USA |> echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu |> -------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J. Erik Radmall | Xerox Corp. eradm@brahms.wbst845e.xerox.com | Knowledge-Based Systems Competency Center -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9974 sci.skeptic:32124 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!monu6!yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au!mongoose From: mongoose@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston) Subject: Re: Intelligent life Message-ID: <1992Oct7.012701.13134@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> Sender: news@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Usenet system) Organization: Monash University General Access Unix X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] References: <8du102id24=S01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:27:01 GMT Lines: 15 nmt@ccc.amdahl.com wrote: : : The surest sign that there are other intelligent life forms out there : is that they never tried to contact us earthling. :-) : Nor, indeed, to this newsgroup. : : : : -- I think this is from Calvin & Hobbes -- -- Conrad Leviston | Got to find a brightness in the soul, mongoose@yoyo. | Not look outside to find out where we are, cc.monash.edu.au | Otherwise you won't be satisfied, Save the gherkin | 'Til you've made possession of the stars. (K.Wallinger) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9975 alt.religion.kibology:4102 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo! Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results Message-ID: Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston References: <1992Oct06.221413.145112@zeus.calpoly.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:51:18 GMT Lines: 26 [alt.alien.visitors] In article <1992Oct06.221413.145112@zeus.calpoly.edu> swoodwar@zeus.calpoly.edu (Null Cypher) writes: >mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) had the unmitigated audacity to say: >> kibo@world.std.com (me) writes: >> ...I could just go to a mountain and stand there and shout, >> 'Hey you guys! I'm spokesman for this planet! You can >> probably see it from where you are, if you can hear me! >> Hello? Is anyone there?' >> >>... I think this is by far the best plan. I recommend you do this, >>without delay, and wait there as long as is necessary. I shall sleep >>the sleep of the saved, knowing that the great kibo is far away, >>indeed as far away as possible, on a mountain shouting at the stars. >> >Actually I liked the random-phone-number plan better. > >Let's take a vote. I vote that I just send e-mail to every possible Internet address and post to every newsgroup. Tomorrow. Shouldn't my spokesmanship be represented in the alt.alien.visitors FAQ? -- K. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!dcs.ed.ac.uk!clc From: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Landslide for Kibo! Spokesman for Earth Vote Final Results Message-ID: Date: 7 Oct 92 07:13:50 GMT References: <1992Oct2.184533.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <1992Oct06.221413.145112@zeus.calpoly.edu> Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Reply-To: clc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (The Clone of Claudio Calvelli) Organization: The Alternative Universe Lines: 10 In article <1992Oct06.221413.145112@zeus.calpoly.edu> Null Cypher writes: > > Actually I liked the random-phone-number plan better. > > Let's take a vote. Before taking any other vote we should vote an official vote taker. -- The Clone of Claudio Calvelli Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a4445 From: Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <16082@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 7 Oct 92 10:19:28 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 5 Yep, I want in on this too. :) I'll bet that Mars turns out to be exactly what we think it is--a big hunka dusty rock. A face on Mars is like the man in the moon. All imagination but no tinkerings of a long dead race. I'll bet 100 kugerands (however you spell it) :-) Colleen Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12008 alt.alien.visitors:9978 sci.skeptic:32140 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!sparc2!news From: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Subject: A Course In Miracles / Reincarnation Message-ID: <1992Oct7.093915.1573@ntb.ch> Keywords: A Course In Miracles Sender: usenet@ntb.ch (usenet) Reply-To: milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs References: <1992Oct2.134039.4481@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 09:39:15 GMT Lines: 130 Tom Gorski and Erik Radmall had some questions about A Course In Miracles and reincarnation, and John Winston and Doug Thompson gave some information about Nicaea So, Erik asks: >What evidence do you have that reincarnation was accepted before the >5th century by Christians? Who edited it? What council decided it? >What did the Bible originally say? It wasn't the Council of Nicaea (as John suggested). That was the one where, as Doug puts it, they "invented" the Trinity. It was two Councils of Constantinople, (334/348?), which decided to refute the teachings of Origen (Origines Adamantius).They also confirmed the decision of the Council of Nicaea to refute the teachings of Arianism (and therefore to raise Jesus to the status of God). Origen was an early Christian philosopher who I think went to Greece, although he was originally from Egypt. He taught the pre- existence of the soul. That is, the soul existed before you were born. This goes along with the Old Testament, where it says in Genesis something like "God created man in his own image" (*Past* Tense) When these Councils refuted Origen, they automatically struck reincarnation from Christian dogma. I read a lot about this when I was still "searching for the TRUTH", and have forgotten some of it now, and most of the sources. One very interesting book was called "Jesus lived in India", but it was in German (don't know the author). There's probably a translation by now. It may not have been this book that gave me the quotes, however. I remember that Jesus said, insisted in fact, that John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Isiah. (Matthew 11, 15 confirms this, but I believe there is a better quote somewhere.) Also, it is recounted that Jesus healed a man who had been blind from birth. (John 9, 1) The disciples asked if the man had sinned (to deserve this punishment) or his parents. How can a man sin before he is born, unless he has had a life before? There really is a lot of information about reincarnation around. Of course, some of it (maybe a lot of it, as with UFOs) is probably unfounded. But I must repeat: Delving into past lives will not help your spiritual development, although it may be fun. Some people seem to get hooked on it. Future lives may be even more scary, but there are different realities.. Tom says > ...the reading I get off of it, is that the only *answer* in the course > goes something like "the only answer lies within." Well, Tom, maybe you were confused by the complexity of the language (this is not intended as a snide remark, it *is* complex), or your ego got the better of you and said: "Look, let's face it, we don't want to know about this kind of thing" as soon as you started. The ego does that, because that's its job. I assure you, *all* the answers are there, if you take the trouble to look for them. Certainly the answers are "within" too, although I haven't uncovered too many there yet either! (But at least some important ones.) Now I'll accept your challenge, Tom .. > Hmmmm...since you have your copy nearby, maybe you'd be willing to try > something for me: > Somewhere in the workbook, in the first two-dozen lessons or so, is > a lesson which goes something like, "I do not know what anything means." > I would be very interested to hear what happens if you pick up and > momentarily do this lesson while you're reading the text, especially > when you're reading those sections which seem to give the exact answers > you have in mind above. First: "I do not know what anything means." does not come in any of the first 30 lessons, although similar lessons do come. I have the feeling, Tom, that you just allowed you ego to simply browse through the first few lessons and say: "What a load of rubbish". After every idea there is an extremely clear description and explanation of what is to be learned. You are told in the introduction that your ego might not accept everything. For example, Lesson 1 starts with "Nothing I see in this room (on this street, from this window, in this place) means anything". Lesson 2 then continues with "I have given everything I see in this room (on this street...) all the meaning that it has for me". JUST LOOK AT THAT. It's so true. *WE* are the ones who give meaning to everything in this material world. Now I had simply not seen it like that before, but as soon as I read it I thought to myself "Hey, that's true!" I had assigned meaning to things subconsciously. Presumably we all do. It was probably Lesson 25 you were thinking of, Tom: "I do not know what anything is for." There follows a very detailed description of the purpose of and the reason for this idea. I must also say in all fairness, that most of the answers to the kind of questions *we* want to ask come in the Text part (the first part) of the book. This is where I get "all the answers" from. The second part (the Exercises) just help you to develop your mind. (You get to recognise you ego too.) > ..your posting about heaven and reincarnation, etc., it sounds very > wonderful, but from where does it come and what does it mean? I'm not an expert, but I do have ideas about this. I'll try to be concise, and I do not speak for ACIM, just the way I interpret some of it. Heaven is the original state of everything. Bliss. Being one with God. We have somehow altered this state for ourselves (by some *mistake*, not a sin) and believe we are separate from God. We will all return to God (to the "state" of Heaven) in the end. God has arranged this for us, but only when we want, as we have free will. We are all souls. (Greys probably are too!) We have decided (because we feel separate) to take up bodies and live lives. We (our soul, our spirit) do learn through this procedure. It does help us on the way back to God. The more we try, the quicker we get back. (Digression: We do have to try to improve our spirit, our mind. If we can recognise our ego (the part of us that wants us to be selfish, to be angry, to be afraid) then we are well on the way. Jesus gave us a good idea how to get back to God, but unfortunately, until this century at least, not many people have tried to follow his ideas. Any kind of punishment, revenge, is against what Jesus said.) I am prepared to answer any further questions on Email. Or here, if they warrant it. I am not an expert, however. I do not speak as an authority on ACIM. I have not even completed the exercises yet, nor have I read all of the text. I will do, however. A word of comfort to all of you who have struggled as far as this: We *all* get to Heaven in the end, because we're all part of God. A Course In Miracles says that there are thousands of ways back to God, and ACIM is just one of these. Love and blessings to you all. Paul. Paul Milsom milsom@ntb.ch Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12011 alt.alien.visitors:9979 sci.skeptic:32143 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <67308@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 06:27:09 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 4 Dear Everybody: I just got back from Mt. Shasta last night and will fill you in on things. Remember OOBE train tonight (wednesday). Same time same station. John Winston. Must go to work now. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewsc!cbfsb!att-out!pacbell.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (Hail Eris) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct7.150014.11452@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:59:34 GMT Lines: 11 In article <16082@mindlink.bc.ca>, Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen Anderson) writes... >Yep, I want in on this too. :) I'll bet that Mars turns out to be exactly >what we think it is--a big hunka dusty rock. A face on Mars is like the man >in the moon. All imagination but no tinkerings of a long dead race. I'll >bet 100 kugerands (however you spell it) :-) >Colleen You're on! mary Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12012 alt.alien.visitors:9981 sci.skeptic:32145 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!wupost!spool.mu.edu!agate!stanford.edu!rutgers!uwvax!zazen!psl.wisc.edu!gorski From: gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: A Course In Miracles / Reincarnation Keywords: A Course In Miracles Message-ID: <1992Oct7.150402.26116@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> Date: 7 Oct 92 15:04:02 GMT References: <1992Oct2.134039.4481@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> <1992Oct7.093915.1573@ntb.ch> Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin Lines: 102 In article <1992Oct7.093915.1573@ntb.ch> milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: > > Tom Gorski and Erik Radmall > had some questions about A Course In Miracles and reincarnation, > and John Winston and Doug Thompson gave some information about Nicaea Well, you might say that... >Tom says > >> ...the reading I get off of it, is that the only *answer* in the course >> goes something like "the only answer lies within." > >Well, Tom, maybe you were confused by the complexity of the language (this is >not intended as a snide remark, it *is* complex), or your ego got the better >of you and said: "Look, let's face it, we don't want to know about this kind >of thing" as soon as you started. The ego does that, because that's its job. >I assure you, *all* the answers are there, if you take the trouble to look >for them. Certainly the answers are "within" too, although I haven't >uncovered too many there yet either! (But at least some important ones.) I don't really know what to say about this!! First of all, I'm somewhat confused by the references to my ego by yours. Surely, it's so much easier to point out somebody else's foibles as opposed to one's own, but doesn't that constitute sloppy thinking on a gross scale in the NewAge-Spiritual Path paradigm? Mind you, I'm not bothered by this, so we can talk about my ego if you want to, but I at least wanted to ask the question. :-) Now, as for my opinion regarding the Text, it wasn't formed totally as a result of my hitting a rhetorical brick wall, as you seem to suggest. It came from my exploration of a paradox, suggested to its credit by the text itself. I'll see if I can explain: As you merrily plough through the text, you'll come to the parts where it says that all of your perception-based systems for ingesting information are hosed up because what you're seeing is your own illusory thoughts, not what's really there, or something to that effect. The Text even mentions in passing that this *includes* the very exercise of reading the Text in first place. That's the paradox: here you're reading a book that has the Wisdom of the Ages, all of the answers, but you vision might be blurred, so how can you tell if you're reading it correctly or not? Let's look at it another way. Stare at your copy of the Text there on the table. What do you see? Bleached wood pulp, pressed into fibrous sheets, with strange little ink markings on them. Yet when you stare at those little markings, a wonderous transformation seems to take place: the markings seem to come alive and seem to take on new meanings! But the markings themselves have not changed, have they? The transformation takes place entirely in your head!! >Now I'll accept your challenge, Tom .. [Description of my suggested exercise, which you didn't _really_ do (:-)), plus more assumptive references to my ego deleted.] Well, I guess it's fair to say about ACIM, that it certainly *does* hold all the answers for those who believe it do be so, for as it says in Lesson #2, which you quoted, "I have given everything I see in this room (on this street...) all the meaning that it has for me". Some final thoughts: Actually, it may suprise you to learn that I'm not such a big skeptic when it comes to ACIM. I assure you I have better things to do with my $50 then to shell it out for a 3-volume set of ACIM just to poke holes in it.... And then there's my Ma, who I think quite highly of, who's very big on ACIM with groups both in Boston, MA, and Reedsburg, WI. Perhaps you were right after all about my ego and the Text. Perhaps the fact that I can take a critical look at the Text means that my ego *is* threatened, and that the material is really onto something in me. Compare that to your situation, where your ego publically trumpets the virtues of ACIM. To me, this reads that your ego has co-opted the material for its own purposes. A truly diabolical unfolding of events, don't you think? :-) To wit: >A word of comfort to all of you who have struggled as far as this: > We *all* get to Heaven in the end, because we're all part of God. A >Course In Miracles says that there are thousands of ways back to God, and >ACIM is just one of these. See? :-) Actually, according to ACIM, the ego, the part which thinks of itself as "We" or "I", _doesn't_ make it back to God. Why? Because it's an illusion, an self-referential illusion that think's it is separate from God. The most that can happen is that one day, this illusion goes: (The ego disappears in a cloud of greasy black smoke.) See ya! >Paul Milsom >milsom@ntb.ch >Neu-Technikum Buchs Switzerland --Tom G. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct7.162840.12727@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <1992Oct7.150014.11452@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:28:40 GMT Lines: 77 Rod Beckwith [writes] >I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN) Colombus would sail >off the end of the Earth? >Here is another clever person with a wonderful example human intellect. This >is a quote from a 1865 Boston Post editorial: >"WELL INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSMIT THE VOICE OVER >WIRES AND THAT, WERE IT POSSIBLE TO DO SO, THE THING WOULD BE OF NO >PRACTICAL VALUE." >Anything is possible......the jury is still out on this one folks. >Rod Richard Shumacher [writes] >You wanna bet? Rod Beckwith [writes] >How much are you willing to lose? Richard Shumacher [writes] >>$100. How about the same bet I made with Joshua Geller? >> If we agree on the basis of Mars Observer data that >> (1) the 'face' is artificial, I'll pay you $100. >> (2) the 'face' is natural, you pay me one dollar. >> If we do not agree on the interpretation of Observer data, >> the bet is off. >> In any case, the bet expires on 1 January 2001, so that we >> don't have to keep track of each other forever. >> We must both agree on the interpretation of Observer data >> to conclude the bet. We will not appeal to any third party. >> The bet will be in force when you agree to all these >> conditions and post your acceptance to sci.skeptic. >>Whattya say? I have $100 worth of confidence in my conclusion. >>Do you have $1 worth in yours? >>Richard Richard, I accept your offer. I agree with all conditions to this bet. I hope you don't make this bet with too many people.....It could get quite expensive for you. I truly hope the Mars observer does not meet the same fate as the Russian probes.All information this probe records will be important for a future manned mission. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9983 sci.skeptic:32147 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology Message-ID: <2AD2DDA8.8235@tct.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:52:55 GMT References: <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> <1992Oct6.230419.3026@odin.corp.sgi.com> Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Lines: 15 According to rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith): >"WELL INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSMIT THE VOICE OVER >WIRES AND THAT, WERE IT POSSIBLE TO DO SO, THE THING WOULD BE OF NO >PRACTICAL VALUE." WELL INFOR... ahem. Well informed people know the difference between exploration and technological development (and commercial exploitation thereof). This "face on Mars" flap is relevant to the former, while the quoted text is relevant to the latter; and there is nothing in common between them. -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT , <73717.366@compuserve.com> "My favorite phenomenon is when someone mails me or posts to this group, either calling me a newbie or telling me that my postings are not relevant to alt.non.sequitur." -- Matt Welsh Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12014 alt.alien.visitors:9984 sci.skeptic:32148 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: A Course In Miracles / Reincarnation Keywords: A Course In Miracles Message-ID: <92024@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 7 Oct 92 16:02:01 GMT References: <1992Oct2.134039.4481@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> <1992Oct7.093915.1573@ntb.ch> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 197 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <1992Oct7.093915.1573@ntb.ch>, milsom@ntb.ch (Paul Milsom) writes: > > > > > Tom Gorski and Erik Radmall > had some questions about A Course In Miracles and reincarnation, > and John Winston and Doug Thompson gave some information about Nicaea > [info about early christianity deleted] > Well, Tom, maybe you were confused by the complexity of the language (this is > not intended as a snide remark, it *is* complex), or your ego got the better > of you and said: "Look, let's face it, we don't want to know about this kind > of thing" as soon as you started. The ego does that, because that's its job. > I assure you, *all* the answers are there, if you take the trouble to look > for them. Certainly the answers are "within" too, although I haven't > uncovered too many there yet either! (But at least some important ones.) > The idea of a book which has ALL the answers is IMHO a bit premature. We're still in the childhood of humanity, after all. Of course, you could say my ego cannot accept such a wonderful book. > Now I'll accept your challenge, Tom .. > > > Hmmmm...since you have your copy nearby, maybe you'd be willing to try > > something for me: > > > Somewhere in the workbook, in the first two-dozen lessons or so, is > > a lesson which goes something like, "I do not know what anything means." > > > I would be very interested to hear what happens if you pick up and > > momentarily do this lesson while you're reading the text, especially > > when you're reading those sections which seem to give the exact answers > > you have in mind above. > > First: "I do not know what anything means." does not come in any of the > first 30 lessons, although similar lessons do come. I have the feeling, Tom, > that you just allowed you ego to simply browse through the first few lessons > and say: "What a load of rubbish". > After every idea there is an extremely clear description and explanation > of what is to be learned. You are told in the introduction that your ego > might not accept everything. For example, Lesson 1 starts with "Nothing I see > in this room (on this street, from this window, in this place) means > anything". Lesson 2 then continues with "I have given everything I see in > this room (on this street...) all the meaning that it has for me". JUST LOOK > AT THAT. It's so true. *WE* are the ones who give meaning to everything in > this material world. Now I had simply not seen it like that before, but as > soon as I read it I thought to myself "Hey, that's true!" I had assigned > meaning to things subconsciously. Presumably we all do. I don't want to brag, but one doesn't need any miraculous revelation for that. Read some philosophy books, and soon everything is meaningless. Don't try and tell me this is a new idea. > It was probably Lesson 25 you were thinking of, Tom: "I do not know what > anything is for." There follows a very detailed description of the purpose of > and the reason for this idea. > I must also say in all fairness, that most of the answers to the kind of > questions *we* want to ask come in the Text part (the first part) of the > book. This is where I get "all the answers" from. The second part (the > Exercises) just help you to develop your mind. (You get to recognise you ego > too.) > > > ..your posting about heaven and reincarnation, etc., it sounds very > > wonderful, but from where does it come and what does it mean? > > I'm not an expert, but I do have ideas about this. I'll try to be concise, > and I do not speak for ACIM, just the way I interpret some of it. > > Heaven is the original state of everything. Bliss. Being one with God. We > have somehow altered this state for ourselves (by some *mistake*, not a sin) > and believe we are separate from God. We will all return to God (to the > "state" of Heaven) in the end. God has arranged this for us, but only when we > want, as we have free will. We are all souls. (Greys probably are too!) We > have decided (because we feel separate) to take up bodies and live lives. We > (our soul, our spirit) do learn through this procedure. It does help us on > the way back to God. The more we try, the quicker we get back. > (Digression: We do have to try to improve our spirit, our mind. If we can > recognise our ego (the part of us that wants us to be selfish, to be angry, > to be afraid) then we are well on the way. Jesus gave us a good idea how to > get back to God, but unfortunately, until this century at least, not many > people have tried to follow his ideas. Any kind of punishment, revenge, is > against what Jesus said.) > Boy, is that original. "The fall of man", again and again. ALL the cosmogony myths, throughout the world, say the same thing. Which doesn't mean it's true. It's just that the universe is so harsh and cold and the man so little and helpless.... > A word of comfort to all of you who have struggled as far as this: > We *all* get to Heaven in the end, because we're all part of God. A > Course In Miracles says that there are thousands of ways back to God, and > ACIM is just one of these. > What if I don't want to come back to God but rest in peace after a pleasant life spent dreaking bear and loving women ??? > Love and blessings to you all. Paul. Why, thanks !! Now give me your left cheek . JM. -------- A thousand men, a thousand pain ---------- Each pain is different. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9985 alt.paranormal:5870 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.centerline.com!noc.near.net!hri.com!ukma!darwin.sura.net!news.larc.nasa.gov!ames!agate!stanford.edu!rock!concert!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Eastern UFO Symposium Message-ID: Date: 7 Oct 92 19:03:41 GMT References: <92277.125148JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 74 JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu writes: This is a call for ideas, volunteers, speakers, workers, locations, helpers, attendees, any and all who want to get involved! Please reply either via private email or let's get this discussion going here, alright? ... well, the first thing you're going to have to look for is sponsorship, so you have up-front money. Hotels, for instance, require a lot of up-front money to reserve convention space. So, typically, do universities for large projects (universities also typically require a recognized organization, to deal with). (Both will require signing of contracts, making you and your sponsors legally liable, etc, etc.). Up-front money will also be required to provide funds to pay for transportation (if necessary) and lodging for your major speakers. Up-front money can come from several sources. (Up-front money is the money required *before* you can get money from attendees -- the money to actually get the conference "off the ground".) Your sponsors (you might try FUFOR, MUFON, or CUFOS, or more local groups) might fork over some, sale of vendor tables (which is why just about every such conference has 'em), or other pre-event fundraising (selling t-shirts, etc.) This is not a fun thing. You may have to go into debt, and hope ticket-sales will bail you out. (The world sf convention in 1988, I think it was -- the last one in Baltimore -- went into the hole in a big way, and the convention organizers were responsible for paying it off. It took years...) After you get the up-front money, you can contact "name" people, since the more of them you have the more likely it is that attendees will fork over the bucks. Also, the more "name" people, the more likely that vendors will purchase tables. Then you have to assemble a staff to make sure everything works. This includes assigning people to make sure your speakers don't get lost, and actually get to the place they are supposed, technical details like microphones and slide-projectors, TVs, VCRs, and electrical power (if you're at a hotel, they'll offer to do it all for you, at union rates.) Then there's having tables and chairs in the right place at the right time, printing programs, badges, handouts, and a myriad of other paper products. Endless details. Then the conference. Don't expect to see anything or do anything but fight the fires of chaos, since you won't have thought of everything, and the programs will probably arrive late, printed in Swahili. Hope you get some volunteers who will work for you, because you'll discover that half your staff has beri-beri, and you need 20 extra people in addition to do the things you didn't think of. If it sounds like a nightmare, it can be. There are, of course, a number of experienced cadres in this sort of thing -- they put on regional, national, and international science fiction conventions. (There are also professional convention folk, who put on the big Star Trek and Beatlefest-type conventions; they typically are well-bankrolled, and know how to do stuff. They also take on volunteers, so you might want to try volunteering for the next one of these (professional or non-professional) conventions in your area -- for instance Philcon is coming up...) I suggest you talk to the "Philcon" folks -- they're local to you, and they put on a fine convention every year. They have a lot of experience in this regard, and can give you sound advice. You may even wish to make your proposed conference a part of Philcon (next year), which would give you a huge leg up on the mundane details, and give them some interesting programming. Hope this helps, Charles Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:12018 alt.alien.visitors:9986 sci.skeptic:32160 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: John? Message-ID: <159c02Pr25ta01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 7 Oct 92 19:35:28 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <67308@cup.portal.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 14 In article <67308@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Everybody: I just got back from Mt. Shasta last night and will >fill you in on things................................ >John Winston. John, You said on your show that you got kicked off the net. What happened? You're back? -- ========================================================================= ||@@@@|| Denise Solis -- dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com ||@@@@|| ||@@@@|| Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty ||@@@@|| ========================================================================= Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!sun-barr!west.West.Sun.COM!male.EBay.Sun.COM!tinkerbell!kathieg From: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM (Good good good good vibrations) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: auras Message-ID: <1avhkvINN3km@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Date: 7 Oct 92 20:34:38 GMT Reply-To: kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: tinkerbell.ebay.sun.com I was told that my statement was unclear, so I will try one more time. When I was a little girl I aw auras, now as an adult I still see auras. This is NOT and I do repeat, NOT a figment of my imagination. So the remark about if this is a figment of my imagination, then I must have a really good one, meant, Your nuts buddy! I can see them. You can't tell me I can't. Hope that clears it up. Kathie ;.) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9988 sci.skeptic:32161 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology Message-ID: <1992Oct7.205618.23681@odin.corp.sgi.com> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> <1992Oct6.230419.3026@odin.corp.sgi.com> <2AD2DDA8.8235@tct.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:56:18 GMT Lines: 57 Chip, FIRST POINT>I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN) Colombus would sail off the end of the Earth? According to rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith): >"WELL INFORMED PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANSMIT THE VOICE OVER >WIRES AND THAT, WERE IT POSSIBLE TO DO SO, THE THING WOULD BE OF NO >PRACTICAL VALUE." >>WELL INFOR... ahem. Well informed people know the difference >>between exploration and technological development (and commercial >>exploitation thereof). This "face on Mars" flap is relevant to the >>former, while the quoted text is relevant to the latter; and there >>is nothing in common between them. Well, you ignored my first point entirely & then let me have it about something you don't feel is relevant. Should I type real ssslllooowwwlllllyyyy so you can make the connection? My point being that if it were up to the neysayers & doubting Thomases in the world, we as a species would still be gathering nuts & berries. We would still all think the world was flat. All crowded in Europe,Asia,Africa,etc. Fearing the unknown big water, ignoring the fact that birds can fly & that with a little ingenuity we could too. It is the mindset of the skeptic that I am making reference to. The out & out denial of an issue before all the evidence is in. Taking the walk off of the well beaten path to discovery. Whether it be technological exploration,physical exploration,mental exploration,etc.,etc.,etc.................................. ........................................................................... .... I hope this clears things up a little. Lets get another thing straight while we are at it. I am not saying that the unusual features on Mars are artificial structure(s). What I am saying is that they are unusual enough to warrant further study. I am not alone in this theory. Why must people always scoff at new or different ideas. Oh well, just read my .sig that might reveal a clue. :-) V V -- V V V -- V Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9989 sci.skeptic:32163 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology Message-ID: <1992Oct7.213032.24367@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> <1992Oct6.230419.3026@odin.corp.sgi.com> <2AD2DDA8.8235@tct.com> <1992Oct7.205618.23681@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:30:32 GMT Lines: 26 In article <1992Oct7.205618.23681@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes in part: |> Well, you ignored my first point entirely & then let me have it about |> something you don't feel is relevant. Should I type real |> ssslllooowwwlllllyyyy so you can make the connection? [...] |> It is the mindset of the skeptic that I am making reference to. The out & |> out denial of an issue before all the evidence is in. I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can. You are still not getting it. Try to pay attention this time: "out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic". The mindset of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence for it?" |> FIRST POINT>I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN) |> Colombus would sail off the end of the Earth? Irrelevant. Only a few non-skeptics believed the world was flat. On the other hand, I'd probably have bet against him finding an unknown continent. Of course, he probably would have bet that way, too. I'd also have bet him that he wouldn't make it to the indies. He'd have taken that bet, but I wonder who would have paid off? -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!convex!news.oc.com!mercury.unt.edu!PC-65959.slab.unt.edu!mcnair From: mcnair@slab.unt.edu (SEAN MCNAIR) Subject: SEX with aliens Message-ID: Lines: 26 Sender: usenet@mercury.unt.edu (UNT USENet Adminstrator) Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:59:08 GMT I recently had sex with an alien. The alien in question lives in my room. He is yurple in color (yellow with purple polkadots) and he emanates facts at me. For example, I know that he is from the planet xenon, and is rather small for his age. (600 yrs) He is just an adolescnt, as this species of animal (or I should say, alien intelligence) lives to be four thousand years of age. He weighs about ninety pounds. (I carried him to the scale) He does'nt come in any particular shape, he merely takes on the shape of his environment. (He can change shape at will) He doesn't seem to have many bones, just a jaw with sharp teeth. He likes to eat, on occasion. (about every two weeks he polishes off an entire jar of of peanut butter. He seems to prefer creamy jif as opposed to crunchy.) The strange thing about this alien, other than the fact that he usually hangs out with me all the time, is that he is empathetic to all my desires, and that he is a doppleganger. For example, last night, I saw a television show that was all about me! It was a news show, and the newscasters kept saying things when I wasn't listening clearly about things I'd been doing, reporting secretly to the rest of the population about what I'd been up to! Then, during a commercial, the women started screaming about Tater Tots (tm) and a few Radioactive Tater Tots (tm) fell on the rug! It was then that I got some sexual feelings for a woman that I saw in the hospital earlier today. Then, the yurple (that's what I call him) changed into the woman I was seeing earlier, and we had sex. The odd thing about is that the yurple, I think, I'm not sure, bit off my penis and swallowed it! It grew back the next day, but now I'm not sure what to do about the yurple. Gumby Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9991 sci.skeptic:32167 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Message-ID: <1992Oct7.220808.6718@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 7 Oct 92 22:08:08 GMT References: <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> <1992Oct6.230419.3026@odin.corp.sgi.com> <2AD2DDA8.8235@tct.com> <1992Oct7.205618.23681@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Oct7.213032.24367@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 40 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Robert,[you write] >I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can. You are still not getting it. Try >to pay attention this time: >"out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic". The mindset >of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence >for it?" The evidence sir is the photographs that were returned by the viking probe. There is not enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what the structure is, so we must go back & re-photograph, re-analyze, re-evaluate, etc. Most skeptics say "What for, it's just a clump of eroded rock" That Bobby my boy is what I am talking about. Skeptics will not open their eyes enough to allow that they might not know everything beforehand. Just a wait & see attitude is all that it takes. What a difficult concept to grasp. Human nature is a labrynth that is as boundless & as confounding as the universe as we know it. Nuff said!!! Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: auras Message-ID: <1992Oct7.224008.18585@netcom.com> Date: 7 Oct 92 22:40:08 GMT References: <1avhkvINN3km@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 21 In article <1avhkvINN3km@male.EBay.Sun.COM> kathieg@tinkerbell.EBay.Sun.COM writes: >I was told that my statement was unclear, so I will try one more time. > > >When I was a little girl I aw auras, now as an adult I still see auras. > >This is NOT and I do repeat, NOT a figment of my imagination. So what do you see? >So the remark about if this is a figment of my imagination, then I must have >a really good one, meant, Your nuts buddy! I can see them. You can't tell >me I can't. > >Hope that clears it up. > >Kathie ;.) Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen alt.folklore.urban:51814 alt.alien.visitors:9993 talk.rumors:3316 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!mucs!mccuts!zzassgl From: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Lane) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.alien.visitors,talk.rumors Subject: Re: Perfect Knowledge Message-ID: <5901@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk> Date: 7 Oct 92 12:53:20 GMT References: <1992Sep30.174933.14274@unixg.ubc.ca> <92278.183232ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, England, M13 9PL. Lines: 5 When will these people learn to use paragraphs.... -- Geoff. Lane. | Internet: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk | Janet: zzassgl@uk.ac.mcc.uts UTS Sys Admin, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Rd, Manchester, M13 9PL "The Royal Family must think the entire world smells of wet paint." Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9994 sci.skeptic:32174 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!ames!agate!soda.berkeley.edu!sfd From: sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology Date: 8 Oct 1992 00:28:30 GMT Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems Lines: 50 Message-ID: <1avvbeINN5kd@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <1992Oct7.205618.23681@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Oct7.213032.24367@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <1992Oct7.220808.6718@odin.corp.sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets In article <1992Oct7.220808.6718@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: )Robert,[you write] )>I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can. You are still not getting it. Try )>to pay attention this time: )>"out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic". The mindset )>of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence )>for it?" ) )The evidence sir is the photographs that were returned by the viking probe. )There is not enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what the )structure is, so we must go back & re-photograph, re-analyze, re-evaluate, )etc. Most skeptics say "What for, it's just a clump of eroded rock" Actually, skeptics say, "Hmm -- it's either (a) a lump of rock which just happens to look something like a face, or (b) an alien artifact. Since believing (b) requires a huge leap of faith, I'll assume it's (a) until somebody proves otherwise." Basically, we know that lumps of rock exist, but we don't know of any aliens -- so, it takes more proof than one suspiciously face-like rock formation to prove the existence of aliens. )That Bobby my boy is what I am talking about. Skeptics will not open their )eyes )enough to allow that they might not know everything beforehand. Do you honestly think this photograph should convince anyone that aliens exist? )Just a wait & see attitude is all that it takes. What a difficult concept )to grasp. But wait. We *never* have perfect information -- there is always doubt. Science is a practice of successive best guesses. At the moment, as far as I know, the evidence isn't strong enough to support the alien artifact hypothesis, so the best guess is, it's a rock. If new photographs show scaffolding, then this best guess may change. )Human nature is a labrynth that is as boundless & as confounding as the )universe as we know it. Nuff said!!! ) )Rod word. Scott -- /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Scott Drellishak sfd@neuromancer.metaphor.com | | "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality." | \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) Subject: Re: Face on Mars An Other Time Message-ID: <1992Oct7.223104.606@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science References: <1992Oct7.150014.11452@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:31:04 GMT Lines: 25 stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (Hail Eris) writes: >In article <16082@mindlink.bc.ca>, Colleen_Anderson@mindlink.bc.ca (Colleen >Anderson) writes... >>Yep, I want in on this too. :) I'll bet that Mars turns out to be exactly >>what we think it is--a big hunka dusty rock. A face on Mars is like the man >>in the moon. All imagination but no tinkerings of a long dead race. I'll >>bet 100 kugerands (however you spell it) :-) >>Colleen >You're on! wait a minute, it was *my* dollar she was putting her hundred up against. I am not willing to bet even *one* krugerrand. if she wants to place one with you, that's between you and her... once again, would everyone I have already bet with (or who would like to) send me mail stating the amount they are betting / would like to bet, the odds that have been agreed on / that they would like, and the method of judgement (so far there are two; one being that the two bettors agree that the formations are / are not artificial, the other being accepting the judge- ment of mr. tim maroney). josh Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!carson.u.washington.edu!scrotch From: scrotch@carson.u.washington.edu (Lou Ciphre) Subject: where is GARY? Message-ID: <1992Oct8.013453.1585@u.washington.edu> Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:34:53 GMT Lines: 2 where are you gary? it's been a while. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9997 sci.skeptic:32182 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!cjr6495 From: cjr6495@tamsun.tamu.edu (C J Rogers (Chris)) Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology Message-ID: <1992Oct8.020918.25813@tamsun.tamu.edu> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station References: <2AD2DDA8.8235@tct.com> <1992Oct7.205618.23681@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Oct7.213032.24367@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:09:18 GMT Lines: 46 In article <1992Oct7.213032.24367@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes: >In article <1992Oct7.205618.23681@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes in part: >> [...] > >I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can. You are still not getting it. Try >to pay attention this time: > "out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic". The mindset > of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence > for it?" WRONG!! That is a cynic. The midset of a skeptic is: "I am going to scoff at the very idea of this new notion until someone comes along with enough evidence to make me look like a blabbering fool!" >|> FIRST POINT>I wonder how many bets were taken that Chris (CRAZYMAN) >|> Colombus would sail off the end of the Earth? >Irrelevant. Only a few non-skeptics believed the world was flat. Not quite. It may not be an accurate metaphor, but it does prove his point. The point being that people held one belief and were so unwilling to give a stroke of possibility to the opposition that they place money against it. That is a lot of the problem that is surrounding the "face." NO ONE KNOWS for certain what it is. Everyone has ideas, but those aren't proof. I think the big question is - will you be willing to accept the truth when it is discovered? >On the other hand, I'd probably have bet against him finding an unknown >continent. Of course, he probably would have bet that way, too. I'd >also have bet him that he wouldn't make it to the indies. He'd have taken >that bet, but I wonder who would have paid off? You would have. Then when they actually discovered what they found, you could crawl out of your grave and take your money back. Later! C J Rogers. "Ignorance is bliss, but intellegence is happiness" -- Yangthei Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:9998 sci.skeptic:32183 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Exploration is not Technology Message-ID: <1992Oct8.023843.13993@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Keywords: mars observer, citys or rocks, confirmation one way or the other, side bets Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Oct6.161857.22015@ncsu.edu> <1992Oct6.230419.3026@odin.corp.sgi.com> <2AD2DDA8.8235@tct.com> <1992Oct7.205618.23681@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Oct7.213032.24367@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <1992Oct7.220808.6718@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:38:43 GMT Lines: 54 In article <1992Oct7.220808.6718@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: |> Robert,[you write] |> |> >I'm typing as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can. You are still not getting it. Try |> >to pay attention this time: |> >"out & out denial" is NOT "the mindset of the skeptic". The mindset |> >of the skeptic is "That's an astonishing claim, what is the evidence |> >for it?" |> |> |> The evidence sir is the photographs that were returned by the viking probe. |> There is not enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what the |> structure is, so we must go back & re-photograph, re-analyze, re-evaluate, |> etc. Most skeptics say "What for, it's just a clump of eroded rock" |> |> That Bobby my boy is what I am talking about. Skeptics will not open their |> eyes |> enough to allow that they might not know everything beforehand. |> |> Just a wait & see attitude is all that it takes. What a difficult concept |> to grasp. |> |> Human nature is a labrynth that is as boundless & as confounding as the |> universe as we know it. Nuff said!!! |> |> Rod I simply refuse to accept your characterization of what "most skeptics" say, because you are just plain wrong. Because, Roddy my lad, I know an awful lot of skeptics, and every damn one of them says, "Sure, as long as we're sending a probe to Mars, let's be sure to look at that place." As to the "evidence": there are, in fact, not one or two, but many 1000's of photographs from many missions to Mars, and plenty of other data about the planet. Of all the gazillions of bits of information we have about Mars, all but a tiny handful tell a consistent story of a dead planet that has never been inhabited. THESE ARE THE FACTS. YOU are the one who is ignoring the facts and the evidence. Like most skeptics, I agree with you that we should collect more data about Mars (and every other aspect fo the universe). Please stop saying that, because I am willing to predict what will be found, that somehow I am unable or unwilling to grasp the fact that we don't actually know yet and I might be wrong. Try to get it through your head that, even though one can't be sure, there actually is very good reason to expect that the structures that you think are ambiguous, are in fact rock formations. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!artist1 From: artist1@rdrc.rpi.edu (Artist # 1) Subject: WAX OR THE DISCOVERY OF TV AMONG THE BEES: visitation film Message-ID: <+qtzp9#@rpi.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: rdrc.rpi.edu Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:30:42 GMT Lines: 199 Hi. Here is a film that you will not read about in the UFO press. I think that readers of alt.alien.visitor will find it interesting for many reasons. It was shot on location at the White Sands Missile Range (yes, including Trinity Site), and is very much about the experience of being visited by aliens of the sort Valle hypothesizes about (i.e. -interdimensional- contact with the truly alien). Lots of interesting synchronicity came along during the making (for instance, though I beganwith ideas concerning Dan Fry, the man in the pork pie hat, and moved on to Roswell (the film took about 6 years, and started in '85), it wasn't ntil several years in that I actually learned about EBE's) So this is the only film you may ever find that thanks Detlev Bronk in the titles,and means it. ------------------------------------- It's been about 2 months since I last posted about my electronic cinema sci-fi feature: =========================================================== "WAX or the discovery of television among the bees" (85:00) =========================================================== Since that time, the film version has successfully opened in New York. If you want the reviews, a description, etc. I have a 62k text file I can send you. Write me at : artist1@rdrc.rpi.edu (my name is David Blair) I made the film, and now I have to get it shown (i.e. I am self- distributing), which is why I am taking the liberty of posting. To warm you up, here's a bunch of quotes: William Gibson (author, Neuromancer, Count Zero, etc.) on WAX: "Winningly strange video narrative from a singular talent. Authentically peculiar. Like something from the network vaults of an alternate universe." Larry McCaffery (editor, "Storming the Reality Studio: A Casebook on Cyberpunk and Postmodern Fiction", Duke University Press): "WAX strikes me as a truly major accomplishment, intellectually rich, verbally inventive, visually stunning, and -- perhaps most remarkable of all -- as emotionally resonant as any film I've come across in recent years." Brooks Landon (author, "Aesthetics of Ambivalence: Rethinking SF Film in the Age of Electronic (Re)Production", Greenwood Press) "WAX is like no movie you have ever seen. Call it postmodern, postcyberpunk... or post cinema, the point is this 85 minute celebration of the possibilities of "electronic cinema" may well indicate the future direction of SF film, if not "film" itself. William T. Vollman (author, "You Bright and Risen Angels", "The Iceshirt", "The Rainbow Stories", all Penguin/Viking Press) "I admire your dark and paranoid visions in all of their intergalactic complexity." Timothy Leary "WAX is a treat for the eyeballs, a delight for the receptor sites, a brilliant illumination for our left brains and our right brains!" Here are the screenings: Bern: Kunstmuseum Bern October 22, 24, 25 (on film) Cleveland: Cleveland Cinematheque weekend of Nov. 6th. (4 shows) (on film) Minneapolis: University Film Society Nov. 6-12th (on film) San Francisco: Stanford Computer Systems Lab Colloquium (EE380) Wed. Nov.4, 4:15pm (this class is carried on Stanford's SITN network, distributed to a variety of sites around the country) (talk with video) San Francisco: New Langton Arts. Sat. Nov. 7, evening This is part of a 3 day conference called "Cybernarrations: A Festival of post-Futurity" organized by Larry McCaffery (Storming the Reality Studio). The line up is: Thursday: Larry McCaffery, Brooks Landon, Misha, and John Shirley talk about literary "cybernarrations". Friday: Bruce Sterling, St. Jude, and Takayuki Tatsumi talk about Sterling's new book. Sat: WAX, and then talk with DB, Richard Kadrey, and Scott Bukatman about visual "cybernarrations". (on video) Sydney: as part of TISEA (Third International Seminar on Electronic Arts) WAX will be screening in the Reception Hall at the Sydney Opera House Nov. 10-13, 2.30-4 pm. Lecture by DB on Friday Largest electronic arts conference ever held in Australia... it appears that there are over 100 invited participants, from every sub-species of the electronic arts. If you are in NSW, you should attend! (on video) Melbourne: as part of EXPERIMENTA Sat. Nov. 20th , State Film Theatre Biennial festival of experimental film/video, with screenings, installations, performance, music, cyber-culture, and talks. Certainly much better than anything we have in the US. Q&A session with DB after (on video) Amsterdam Rialto Cinema Nov. 17 (on film) Tucson: Arizona Center for the Media Arts Dec. 3-6 (six shows?) Possible talk. (on film) Honolulu Hawaiian Intl. Film Festival Varsity Theatre, Nov. 30th Art Theatre (?), also Nov. 30th present at both sessions (on film) San Francisco: Roxie Cinema opens Jan. 1st for a one week run (24 shows, I think) (on film) San Francisco: UC Berkeley Jan. 8 and Jan.9th (on film) London: Scala Theatre, London (Dec. or January) (on film) More dates in the UK will be posted next time. Thanks for your attention. If you think of a good venue, let me know! If you are curious about cassettes, I am selling a limited edition of 500, signed and numbered, to help pay off the post production and distribution expenses. They are $36 postpaid. My address is David Blair P.O. Box 174, Cooper Station New York, NY 10276